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Why the Israeli Military Response in Gaza is Bullshit [Updated]

By Larry Johnson on December 29, 2008 at 12:45 PM in Current Affairs

(Bumped up by Susan from 3:00 a.m. See also: Larry’s earlier story, “The First War of 2009,” and the latest videos I posted last night.)

This post is for thinking people. I am not saying–I EMPHASIZE FOR YOU WHO HAVE A READING DISABILITY–that Israel must simply take the rocket and mortar strikes without responding. But we, the United States, have some experience with this in Iraq. When terrorists fired off mortars/rockets at U.S. positions what did we do? Bomb the hell out of a neighborhood in Baghdad or al Anbar? No!! Ever hear of “counter battery strikes?”

We have the technology–as do the Israelis–to quickly pinpoint the source of a rocket/mortar launch and hit the target. The United States did not go into the cities of Iraq with airstrikes and wipe out entire neighborhoods because some assholes with mortars were trying to stir things up or kill our soldiers.

Here is how professionals do it:


Here’s a more graphic view of what can happen to an unwitting terrorist.

Sorry, but the Israeli military is acting like a bunch of pathetic thugs rather than conduct themselves with professionalism and skill. You do not just kill Palestinians because you can. You kill the assholes shooting the rockets/missiles. Israel has the means to do that but clearly prefers killing large numbers of Palestinians. Sorry folks, but thems the facts.

UPDATE: Here you get to see some video footage of Israeli strikes on “terrorist” targets in Gaza. Unlike the footage above of actual terrorists in Iraq being hit, the Israeli video simply declares a target a terrorist target and then blows it up. Note the first portion, which purportedly is a HAMAS PATROL BOAT.

  • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

    Boldly — and clearly — stated, Larry.

    • NoTrollZone

      Thanks for posting this Larry. I had wondered about this– why the Israeli military didn’t pinpoint the source of the rocket fire and take it out with precision. I assume that Israel has state of the art weaponry.
      Larry, I really wish you would write more on this topic. The dialogue turns into cream mush way too fast on this issue. Actual info from an expert goes a long way to clarify what is going on– and what would a more intelligent way of handling the issue.

      • Sam

        I agree wholeheartedly! Israel’s actions disgust me!

        • LDW

          Well, it’s nice when the insurgents stay above ground, in a relatively unpopulated area, and the predator spy plane can follow them for long enough to fire a missile to the target. But Gaza is not quite so easy. Hamas fires rockets from populated areas, and the militants disappear into apartment buildings, schools and tunnels. While hundreds of rockets have been fired into Israel, all Israelis have quick access to bomb shelters and get as much warning of an attack as their government can give. The Hamas leadership hides its fighters amongst the civilian population, and only the Hamas leadership and their cronies have access to bomb shelters and hideouts. Not only is the civilian population in Gaza left to fend for themselves, the Hamas leadership deliberately behaves in a way to maximize Palestinian civilian deaths, as a propoganda tool against Israel.

          So, it’s no wonder that Palestinian civilians die when Hamas military targets are struck.

          And those calling for ‘proportional response’ by Israel is nonsense. A ‘proportional response’ would be to fire hundreds of rockets indiscriminately into Gaza, deliberately targeting civilians just as Hamas has been firing hundreds of rockets into Israel, deliberately targeting civilians.

          • JPS

            LDW, you’re utterly wrong. I take it you know nothing about the conflict between Gaza and Israel. The overwhelming majority of Palestinian rockets are fired from rural or semi-rural areas, in particular orchards, in the barren north and east of Gaza. Not from populated centers.

        • Matt

          I think Israel is doing the right course of action good for them defend your land.

      • hn

        I am appalled at L. Johnson’s post. The Israeli cannot take out Hamas without going in the way they have. Do you really think that Hamas would be waiting calmly above ground at the same spot where the rockets came from and allow for the Israeli target weapons to take them out?
        They have to annihilate Hamas’s arsenal and the underground passages which allow for them to smuggle the weapons made in Iran and Syria. Shame on you Larry Johnson! You used to be a Hillary supporter and I suggest you ask her what she thinks. As per the Palestinians, their own people (Iran, Syria) supply them with weapons instead of education and means to function as an independent nation, they voted for a terrorist faction! I feel sorry for the Palestinian children and civilians who are in harm’s way. Although it is a fact that the Israeli try to take out the source of their constant bombings by Hamas. The assaults target Israeli civilians and children. How can Israel reach the Hamas rocket launching sites when Hamas purposely surround those with the very people, civilians who elected them and are always moving them? Hamas want for the Palestinians to be seen as martyrs and they are the ones responsible for the tragic deaths of Palestinians and Western Israeli alike.

    • Lisa Hinman

      Larry,

      I hope you read this. Rockets are being fired constantly into Israel by Hamas in violation of the cease fire agreement. Hamas now uses longer range missiles than before and tunnels to maintain its supplies, etc….. How can Israel pin point the mobile source especially when Hamas purposefully locates itself within the populated civilian areas. The Arab countries are determined to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. I think that Israel has a right to defend itself. I do see how you can correlate this with Iraq and Bush in that the Israeli actions being taken now are the only ones that have a chance of ever leading to a future peaceful settlement.

      Israel returned the Gaza strip to the Palestinians in a gesture of peace. Unfortunately for the residents of the strip, Hamas has infiltrated their strip with the sole purpose of destroying Israel. The only recourse for Israel is to, once again, occupy the Gaza Strip and to push Hamas out.

      • mountainaires

        Israel withdrew from Gaza and immediately imprisoned every Palestinian there. They then proceeded to starve them, preventing any commerce, trade or travel. Literally imprisoning 1.5 million people into a Palestinian “Warsaw Ghetto.”

        A ‘peaceful’ gesture? Or a strategic policy?

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/29/israel-attack-hamas-preparations-repercussions

        • Vince

          Sorry, but this argument has always bothered me. Why can Israel be condemned for not allowing individuals that have sworn to destroy their country unfettered access to their civilians (where the Palestinians have a history of strapping on bombs and wandering into cafes and markets), but a pass is given to Egypt who are supposed to be an ally of the Palestinians and won’t let their neighbor allies into their country for commerce, trade and travel?

          • Edgar Rosales

            Maybe because random Jews from Europe decided they would just take Palestine by force and call it Israel in the early 20th century. Jews already lived in peace along with Christian and Muslim Palestinians in Palestine before Israel fanatically decided embark themselves in a neverending quest to occupy and settle more and more of Palestine and declaring themselves to be a country. It does not justify the rocket attacks, but at the same time it is just not smart to provoke these incidents by settling. I was blown up in Iraq, and I don’t really blame the Iraqi who did it. I would have done the same to him if he occupied the US.

      • http://globallabor.blogspot.com/ Steve Diamond

        Hamas locates its infrastructure in Palestinian neighborhoods – but where should they locate their offices? in the Red Sea?

        But the rocket and mortar teams are not “located” anywhere – they are mobile. Larry’s point is that that should not matter – a genuinely proportionate response would target the actual source of the problem and could do so with the technology available.

        Of course, Israel has a larger motive – their thuggish disproportionate response actually increases the likelihood of extremism in Palestinian youth and keeps Hamas alive for another generation. That, of course, gives hard core Zionists an excuse to delay the implementation of a genuine two state solution.

        • orwelllives

          Sure, Steve. The israelis don’t want a two state solution. that’s why they accepted the UN partition plan in 1947 while the Arabs rejected it. That’s also why they were willing to return ninety some percent of the territories in exchange for peace in Camp David in 2000. But we shouldn’t get confused by the facts now, should we?

      • Colin Murray

        Wow, I rarely see self-delusion so naked. Hamas drove Israel out of the interior of Gaza with violence. They did so not with battlefield victory, but by changing the IDF’s perception of the viability of the colonies it was tasked to protect. It is tragic that it had to come to violence. Unfortunately, the Israeli government has never once, in its entire history, negotiated in good-faith on its own, i.e. without the United States holding its hand and glaring sternly over its shoulder. And this is when it has deigned to sit down at a negotiating table at all. Israel left Palestinians no means of address for wrongs, except the gun. This would still be the ugly reality even if Hamas weren’t a bunch of religious loonies, because the objective of the ‘Gaza expedition’ was land, and anyone already on it had to go, no matter who they were.

        I don’t think you honestly believe that the withdrawal from Gaza was a gesture of peace. No, your claim is sour grapes writ large. My usual response to such nonsense that outlandish is LMAO, laughing my ass off. But the Gaza bombing campaign is yet another fait accompli security threat to my country, and I am not laughing.

    • mary

      We need more EYOPENERS like this from Larry–especially now that wars are looming in Pakistan-India, Israel-Palestine….
      Let’s not buy what the incompetent biased media are selling us. Look where it got us: Oblabla.

      Let’s at least be thankful that Hillary is there as SOS and not some jerkovich bumbuddy of His Hopeness!
      We need more ‘eyopeners’ like the above insights….

    • Ks Girl

      I can not imagine for a second that the United States, George Bush or Barack Obama, would allow any enemy to continuously bomb our country, pinpoint or not…

      • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMAISAFRAUD

        I agree Ks Girl and I find anyone who says it’s OKAY for Israel to just sit and let this happen ridiculous. But, it’s coming to the US too now that we have the so called progressives deciding that we should allow all of this stuff and sing “Kumbaya” while Israel is blown off the planet. I wonder about this though…if all of the people who want us to stay out of other countries’ business, and poo poo people DEFENDING THEMSELVES against terror…who the F**K is EVER going to help US when we need it??? Just curious. We have always rushed to help others. Now that’s an un PC no-no, as is defending our own country. I can’t WAIT until the people who crap on us defending ourselves, and others, are laying in a bloody heap next to their dead families. Maybe then it will be okay to use the same force against others used against us and our friends around the world. I get sick reading this crap. I don’t have a “reading disablility.” I know what some people here post. I am on Israel’s side. They have taken enough crap from Hamas, etc. I choose to be AMERICAN and I CHOOSE TO TAKE SIDES. Just like my frigging father did in WWII. Maybe he should have sat on his liberal azz singing Kumbaya during WWII too. What a great world it would be, huh? Give me a BREAK.

    • William L. Donlon

      What took Israel so long??

      For 52 days without let up, the Islamofascists have rained an average of 20 rockets a day down on Israel.

      These are the same people in Gaza who set up computer rooms to get out the vote for Obama during our election.

      These are the same people who sent money to Obama along with their friends in Iran, Syria, The UAR, and Saudi Arabia.

      ADD TO THAT:

      Islamofascists attack Mumbi in India,(300+dead)
      Islamofascists attack in Bali,( 250+ Dead)
      Islamofascists attack Spanish trains, ( 330 dead).
      Islamofascists 7/11 attack on London (63 dead).
      Islamofascists attack the elementary school children in Beslan, (240 dead)
      Islamofascists attack the USA on 9/11 (2,997 dead)

      I don’t care about the Palestinians, their cause or there dead!!

      Cry me a river!

      • W.S.

        How sad that there are people out there as sick as you are. What a horrific thing to say. It is obivous you have no clue what your talking about and that all that brainwashing has worked

  • ritamary

    Thank you, Larry, for telling the truth about what is going on there. And for anyone who wonders why the United States is hated because of what Israel is doing, all those planes and weapons Israel uses are from the United States.

    In Larry’s previous article on Israel some commenter was complaining that Hamas is supported by Iran. Well, Israel is supported by the United States, with way more support than Iran is capable of giving to Hamas.

    • stodgie

      that is no correlation. iran and the usa? sure under bush there was an extreme policy but overall the usa has tried for decades to broker peace. and iran? no!

      • workingclass artist

        Hmmmm….Anyone ever wonder WHY the other Arab nations fund the palestinians?…To keep them out of their own counties…Sheeesh!

        • andrew191

          The rest of the Arab world use the Palistinians like sacrificial Chess pawns in an ongoing game where checkmate is the eventual elimination of Israel and Jews. And you are right W.A.,the rest of the Arab world don’t want them in their own countries, which forces the Palistinians into the demoralizing position of having to beg for scraps from the Israelis. It’s not surprising that the Palistinians are constantly pissed off, their Arab “brothers” want it that way.

          • stodgie

            well to be honest here, the palistinians had a vote and guess who came to dinner so to speak. that’s right hamas! you know the other half of this conflict and also part of the problem.

            • andrew191

              Of course! Hamas is like the stick the rest of the Arab world uses to stir up the anthill.

              • workingclass artist

                Anti-zionism is the only unifying cause with the Muslims…next to Anti-Americanism…Just the way the Saudis like it…Playing both sides and hoping it won’t come home…

                • andrew191

                  Clear as crystal!

            • elise

              Wasn’t Hamas elected by the Palestinians because Fatah was ineffectual in providing basic necessities? We can’t support Democratic elections and then refuse to recognize the elected officials if it doesn’t suit us. If I remember history correctly, Iran recognized Israel after the new state was established and after the 1968 war, when Israel refused to return land to the Palestinians, the trouble escalated.

              The war with Hezbollah was a lose for Israel and destroyed their aura of invincibility and exactly what is their goal here and what if they fail again? They used cluster bombs against civilian targets in Lebanon and now, they are careless of civilian casualties again.

              No one argues they don’t have a right to defend themselves, however, they seem to believe an all out attack is the only way and that makes them look like bullies. Objecting to decisions made by the government and military in Israel is not anti semitism any more than objecting to our own government policies is anti American.

              In a year when our elections have been full of racial allegations, it should be a time to step back from this rhetoric and take a look at how these policies affect all of us. Unquestioning support from the USA doesn’t lead to a peaceful solution.

              The International community needs to apply pressure to both sides, including an instance on no more Israeli development on the West Bank.

            • Edgar Rosales

              You cant really blame people because they voted for a political party that champions the poor. To their bad luck, this party is also a militant party. We had George W., who certainly does not represent what the general public in the US believes in ( I will not even go into his approval rating ). We voted for him because of his “Terrorism Cold War”, in which he justified all his actions by scaring the public and by abusing people’s general trust of safety in America by announcing “possible threats of terrorism” prior to executing his agenda; To the point of enriching his buddies Dick Cheney and Halliburton. It is sad that we as everyday Americans are hated just because Bush came into power.

    • xax

      Israel is allied with the US but we aren’t supporting them in the same way Iran or other countries would support terror cells. How so? Because we can’t stop them from doing what they’re going to do. It’s not like there’s some secret cash flow that if stopped would stop Israel. Israel is an independent country.

      Israel does not need the US to carry out anything, whereas these terror cells often do need actual support. And last time I checked the US sells weapons/technology across the board. Maybe in the 60s that whole “Israel is supported by the US” argument would have worked, but not in this age.

      • elise

        xax, do you believe Israel acts without consultation with their biggest ally? Our government made no effort to intervene in the War with Lebanon until it became obvious Hezbollah was winning support from the civilian population and admiration from other Arab countries.

        • xax

          That’s what allies do; they consult. But just because they ask for our opinion, does not mean that we can control everything they do. If it’s in both countries best interests, yeah they’ll work together, but if not they will go their separate ways.

          • xax

            And yes, I do believe that Israel is capable of acting without any consultation.

            • elise

              xax, I’m just asking the question because the US has a position on the Security Council of the UN and is the only country to veto the resolution to condemn Israel for the use of cluster bombs in Lebanon.

              This conflict began years ago and had nothing to do with Palestine. The 1967 War was a preemptive war by Israel in response to a decision by Nasser and Egypt to nationalize the Suez Canal. The decision by Egypt was made after the US and Britain made a decision to withdraw from an agreement to build the Aswan Dam which was vital to Egyptian agriculture and to control flooding of the Nile River. After the withdrawal of western support for the Dam, the Soviet Union agreed to build the Dam.

              Jordan had a mutual defense agreement with Egypt so they attacked Israel. Subsequently, Israel occupied Gaza, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, the Sinai Penn. and part of Jerusalem and refused to return the land to the Palestinians (who had no involvement in the beginning of that war).

              It had nothing to do with anti Semites and Muslims and more to do with the US desire to control the Suez Canal. After the war, both Egypt and Jordan recognized the State of Israel, the US lost the opportunity to build the Dam and Palestine began it’s effort to regain it’s land. Almost immediately, Jewish settlers began to claim land as their own and the Palestinians saw their homes destroyed. Israel was able to being water to the area while Palestine lost it’s ability to survive economically.

              Both the PLO and Hamas have been labeled terrorists and resorted to terrorism to regain their land. That doesn’t excuse what they have done, but the desperation, not hatred of Israel, was the genesis of this conflict.

    • mary

      The real ENEMIES to us all are two:

      1. Ignorance
      2. Extremism

      The PUMAS led the way to eradicating both through their sheer ability to refuse to bend to either leftist or rightist wing-nut jobbers. That’s why the Voice of Reason is alway hushed by the Ignoranuses and the Extremists–of whatever Party or Religion. I prefer Democracy — the PUMA way. And I appreciate that Larry is not advocating anything here other than a measured reponse that will be seen to minimize the inherent barbarism in war methods….Hipocrates, the first Greek physician said (and wish today’s hacks would hear him): “FIRST, DO NO HARM”…..War is pure barbarism, but sometimes they have to be fought, as in the Second World War. If we sat on our hands, we’d be speaking Deutch. However, the Dubya War of Stupidity was unnecessary and we must be always on guard to minimize the Human harm, especially civilians, in these Wars for Profit. Obama will lead us into a bigger disaster in Pakistan. Unfortunatately, its next door neighbor, India, is also a nuclear power, thanks to lack of regulation by the Dubya administration. Let’s hope that Oblabla’s backpacking expedition as college student with boyfriend in India has given him sufficient wisdom to fairly and wisely deal with the new challenge soon to be facing the world. I still can’t see a middle-schooler boy who probably thought CIA was a Hawaiian ice shaver before his Chicago debut, do anything useful other than count the days before he’s removed from office due to incompetence.

  • Fredster

    Are there elections coming up in Israel?

    just sayin’

    • stodgie

      elections just happened here. maybe this is the hamas answer to these elections and the perception that obama is weak. i don’t much think hamas gives a dang that obama plans to use his middle name in any public event. hamas wants to get the haters and excusers going full time. what a shame cooler heads didn’t prevail in israel.

      • Mary

        “Elections just happened here.”

        Well allright, then, folks: Stodgie lives in Israel.

        Certainly explains his one-sided point of view.

        What he isn’t telling you is that Livni’s coalition crumbled (she’s for peace), and new elections are coming.

        Netanyahu , the Israeli Dick Cheney, will be running.

        There we all are.

        • stodgie

          mary you have galloping case of stupid. your arrogance knows no end. i saw you on an old blog commenting to people who are through posting. it sort of reminds of the so called politicans talking to the empty house for cspan. all talk to no affect. your love for the sound of your voice is the exact opposite what goes on behind the scene in your head.

        • Shtuey Shtuey

          Uh, I think he was referring to the American election. Israel hasn’t held theirs yet. But thank you, we need more uninformed, knee-jerk reactionaries like yourself to enlighten the conversation.

          High five!

  • http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/radical/ kat in your hat

    I just saw this on Drudge.

    “Video: Israeli jet destroys rocket launching pad purposely located in residential area…”

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/Page/VideoPlayer&cid=1194419829128&videoId=1230456496945

    • workingclass artist

      Yeah…It seems to me that the home owners were contacted ahead of time by the IDF & told to leave…It just seems logical that if you have bombs in the house you might be a target.
      Israel has left GAZA. Hamas builds tunnels and launches rockets into Israel…Sheeesh!
      Hama brought this onto themselves and the Palestinians who elected them.
      I read that behind closed doors PLO petitioned Israel to do something because Hamas was undercutting PLO and potential progress towards accords…
      Israel has a right to defend herself.

      • stodgie

        there will no peace as long as hamas is in charge. electing so called leaders based on emotions like greed and anger(wrongly directed) typically results in more despair and chaos. the plo is corrupt for sure but there was a glimmer of hope with them but not with hamas.

        i have longed for the right to be dislodged in israel in hopes that those with more peacful ideas might again take power. that is the last thing that the haters and hamas want to happen. this is a never ending cycle and there are those who want this very thing for their own distored reasons.

        • workingclass artist

          Hmmmm….It seems Israel has inflicted serious damage to HAMAS…both with the weapons and the militia senior leadership…
          Anti-Jewish sentiment is on the rise and perhaps the Israelis have gotten fed up with the narrative…I don’t blame them for seeing the handwriting on the wall…sheeeesh!
          Either HAMAS gets the message or not.

          BTW…Hospitals in Israel treat palestinians on a regular basis…Would GAZA reciprocate in kind?….Hmmmm…Don’t think so…
          Aaaaand some palestnian mullah? says they will start kidnapping Females in the IDF….to use as Breeders?…Sheeesh!
          If your insist on clinging to mideval politics…you force a response in kind because t’s the only way to get through?

          • WildChild

            using military action to get that message through hasn’t really worked for either side. Instead, we have reached and passed the textbook definition of insanity where people keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Take a good look at it. We’re headed for the same place

            • workingclass artist

              Armis Exposcere Pacem
              They demanded Peace by force of arms

              A curious Latin Motto inscribed on medals…No?

              • WildChild

                It’s not curious if you really intend to see the thing through to it’s conclusion. But the Israeli’s don’t have the balls to see the thing through and the Palestinians don’t have the might see the thing through. So what we are left with is this slow drip of blood that is expanding out into our societies, and that is completely unacceptable.

                • workingclass artist

                  We shall soon see which way the wind blows…and from which blowhards…
                  Seems to be a definite shift in Israeli policy with this latest election…Tanks are lining up at the border…While 25 miles away it’s business as usual…Hmmmm…

                  • WildChild

                    These people have been watching tanks rumble past for the better part of a century. LOL I don’t think they’re going to be impressed by that. At the end of the day neither side will give in. Neither side will give up, and neither side will go away. It isn’t going to end for them until we end it for them. We started it for them. It’s about time we got of our asses and ended it for them.

                    • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

                      The extreme hatred we see from both the Israelis and the Palestinians is a primal hatred generally associated with sibling rivalry.

                      I doubt that either side is able to end this conflict — each wants complete and total submission from the other. And that isn’t going to happen.

                      After WWI the winners demanded huge concessions from the loser — Germany — which lead to WWII.

                      All wars end with negotiations and diplomacy. Well except for the lopsided wars like the “Indian Wars” where the American Indians were virtually exterminated — and forced to live on reservations.

                      It almost seems like Israel is trying to place the Palestinians into small reservations — Like Gaza and the West Bank and slowly encroach on the territory — trying to force the Palestinians to leave. Except where can the Palestinians go? They are being forced from their homes.

                      Could it be the the unspoken plan is to force the a mass migration — but where? No matter where these people go — they will still be from Palestine and this memory will be instilled in future generations. The hatred will grow and the never ending battle with Israel will continue.

                      We left with two peoples who claim the same land — and neither is willing to back down.

                      I agree with Wildchild — any solution to the violence requires the strength of a third force. Israel won’t go away and neither will Palestine — problem is both want to occupy the same space. Plus there is a very limited water supply — people need water to survive.

                      Both sides also have extreme Fundamentalists — and these are the nut cases who are probably driving the continued war. I suspect that the majority on both sides are probably moderates who just want to go to work and school and live in peace.

                      Pretty speeches won’t heal an ancient blood feud.

                      Even on this blog — we have representatives of the two extremes — “Israel has a right to defend herself” — which seemly justifies all sorts of violence against civilians.

                      And there’s the Mike (KKK) sort of argument that all Jews are evil etc. Which is really dumb — stereotyping a whole group of individuals is well — racist. Some of the strongest advocates for peace with Palestine are Jewish voices.

                      No person in their right mind would want the job of trying to negotiate peace between two siblings who hate each other.

                    • stodgie

                      well it looks like hillary just might have that job. i am thankful it is her and not an empty suit.

                  • stodgie

                    i don’t see a successful long term shift from our close relationship with israel. sure it might be somewhat cooler. frankly i expected that. the thing is the extremists on the arab side will prevent our moving closer into their orbit obama or no obama. he won’t have much of a choice.

                    • workingclass artist

                      Interesting that HAMAS accuses Jordan and Egypt with collusion in an Israeli Gaza strategy…No?

                    • stodgie

                      oh i think hamas wants to try and get their licks in now and stir the pot before obama gets into office. during transition a perception of vulnerability exists. they think bush won’t do anything now and obama can’t or won’t.

  • Mirlo

    Israel did exactly what Hamas intended for them to do and thus provoke outrage against Israel.

    To locate Rocket launching devises, weapons and such in residential areas is using it’s own people as targets.

    The hate spiral is getting more speed. Is there a way to slow it down?

    • workingclass artist

      well…at least in NYC only 5 protesters showed up…lol
      GOD bless America!

      • stodgie

        check the houston chronicle, workingclass artist, we had more than that in houston over the weekend.

        • workingclass artist

          Got a link? Went to the chronicle and there’s just too much to wade through…chuckle…Guess I missed it?

          • stodgie

            workingclass, i don’t do computer well! actually i picked it up on yahoo where i then hit for local news. i no longer get the paper as it wastes trees and my time. smile!

  • http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/ Not Your sweetie

    Ny Daily News columnist thinks Caroline flunked her audition for Senate. He’d be right if this WERE an audition
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/camelot-must-be-gaelic-for-chutzpah/

  • bert

    Well and simply stated and explained.

  • Judy

    Thank you Larry for having the guts to say the truth.

  • Baba Rum Raisin

    Agreed. One doesn’t amputate a limb to excise a simple skin carcinoma.

    • workingclass artist

      Hmmmm…unless the carcinoma goes to the bone…no?

      • Baba Rum Raisin

        None of mine ever do, except for one that was real close to the spine.

        If you spend 50+ years outdoors, in the sun, you get lotsa little carcinoma thingies…

  • ScottVA

    I have to laugh at your article Larry… no offense but being someone who has spent a MAJOR amount of time in that region….. I disagree! and for the record I’m not an Israeli Jew… The Gaza Strip is FULL of Hamas terrorists that want nothing more then to cause trouble and DO NOT care if it’s at the expense of their OWN people! The Palestinian cause will NEVER go forward as long as Hamas is on the scene! For the record Larry…….I’m wondering if you think the USA would sit back and take rocket attacks from Canada or Mexico if terrorists were firing at us from there! LOL I THINK NOT!

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      I really have no patience with ignorant fools like you. Please pull your head out of your ass and learn to read. I make it very clear in the article above that killing the people who fire the mortars or rockets is quite appropriate. Indiscriminate bombing by the Israelis is not an appropriate response. It the reaction of cowards. Israel likes to delude itself that it has a professional military but then conducts itself like a street gang. Disgusting.

      • Lisa Hinman

        Larry,
        Sorry you do not have the patience to read what others, like myself, may have to say, I’ve taken the patience to read your comments so you should read mine. Trading shots with Hamas has proven to lead nowhere. They just keep coming. Pushing back with the intent of removing them from Gaza can have a more lasting result. This action by Israel has been determined by Hamas. Only fools would act differently.

        • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

          Lisa,
          Spare us the faux outrage. My problem is with people who claim I have written something I have not. My advice to you is the same. Remove head from ass and read what I’ve written, not what you imagine that I have written. Do that and we’ll get along fine. It is very simple.

        • Mary

          Except that Larry is right, Lisa.

          Reports now from Israel itself are saying Ohlmert and Barak have been planning this, secretly, for 6 months.
          The rocket attacks were just the “opportunity” they used to initiate what they wanted all along.

          Now you tell me, Lisa: Ya think Israel would have done this without secret Bush administration approval?

          NOBODY with any understanding of the area thinks Israel would have done this without WH approval. Notice the timing: after the election, right before Bush leaves office.

          Haaretz is reporting that the Israeli reserves have been called up. What THAT means, Lisa, is that Israel intends a ground invasion, too, leading to possible occupation.

          Israel’s over-reaction will inevitably result in more anti-American hatred by the nations that surround them, and down the road….you can bet your bottom dollar another 9-11 attempt will be made.

          Aren’t you sick and damn tired of Israel over-reacting as they did in Lebanon, and the American government excusing their choices, allowing “anything goes?”

          • workingclass artist

            Hmmm…a case of wedge diplomacy perhaps?…Forcing the issue as it has been ignored by the West…Hmmmm….

            • Mary

              Ignored by the west???

              You mean, the West ignored the blockading of food, water, and fuel by Israel?

              The West ignored illegal Jewish settlements on Palestinian land?

              The West continued to give Israel foreign aide, even though they had not lived up to their agreements written in the two-state solution?

              That ignoring, artist?

              Haaretz is reporting Israel has been planning this for 6 months, waiting for the period of time between the election and the inauguration.

              You think Haaretz would lie?

          • Lisa Hinman

            Mary and Larry,

            I do not think that Israel over reacted in Lebanon. They followed known Israeli doctrin – to meet force with greater force. Israel was attacked by Lebanon, Israel responded and it stopped. I don’t belive in turning the other cheek. After world war II, the Jewish people swore to never let it happen again by turning the other cheek. I’m 67 years old and a Jew. Most of my family died in concentration camps.

            Mary, 9/11 did not happen because of Israel, and if it ever happens again it will not be because of Israel. It will be because the Arab countries hate western idiology and focus on Americans as their target of choice. Also, Israel thinks for itself. In fact,Israeli officials appriciated the hands off approach the Bush Administration has had with Israel – letting them pursue their own agenda.

            Larry, maybe I did misunderstand you. My point is that I think Israel needs to, and will, defend itself from total destruction. As I mentioned earlier to Mary, learning from the experience of the Germany and WWII, Isreal made the correct determination that “never again will Isreal sit ideally by hoping things will get better but rather will take the strong affirmative moves necessary to repell aggression.” This is a long standing Israeli doctrine and should not come as a suprise to anyone.

            Final point: Hamas does not care about the well being of the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip. They believe that human shields are a acceptable practice of war. What about the Israeli citizens and children being killed by Hamas?

            • Mary

              With all due respect, given that Israel survived a Warsaw Ghetto of their own, it gives them no right to create same for the Palestinians is Gaza.

              Decent human beings know that.

              Did you know that 7 United Nations workers (college kids) were killed in Israel’s airstrike?

              Like it or not, the rest of the world is not going to accept “anything goes” from Israel anymore.

              NOT…..GONNA ……HAPPEN.

              Get used to it.

              • jvsp

                If you hasn’t already, a splendid bit of history to check out is that of Jordan’s Black September. It details just what all the Palestinian factions have in mind, not just for Israel, but for any other nation that “hosts” them, e.g. Lebanon.

                Moreover, it details just who continues to beat the Palestinian people into abject suffering. After all, the Palestinian people are the prized political possessions of HAMAS, the PLO, and the other sundry alphabet soup contingents. Now try prying their hands from the throat of the Palestinian people when they have a nation to destroy, both theirs and those of others.

                I wonder where Jordan and Egypt are in all of this.

                • Mary

                  What utter crap.

                  The Palestinian people VOTED for them, in a democratic election that was encouraged by President George Bush.

                  It is the Israeli’s who have blockaded food, water, fuel, and medical supplies for 2 1/2 years from Gaza, with American approval.

                  Let us all write down in our memories that Israel has now created its own Palestinian Warsaw Ghetto, and judge them accordingly.

                  • jvsp

                    “What utter crap.”

                    Eloquent.

                    “The Palestinian people voted for them…”

                    Bush aside, what kind of choice did they have? What choice have they, the regular Palestinian, ever had?

                    You just go and make everything neat and tidy and blame Israel and the US, i.e. just hide away all the inconvenient parts of history that ruin your narrative.

                    It’s easier to live when history and issues are put on the procrustean bed of extremes.

                  • stodgie

                    mary the only utter crap on here are your comments. go do some reading, get a little humility. i can assure you that you absolutely no reason for arrogance. NONE!

                    • orwelllives

                      Don’t confuse her with facts, stodgie.

              • Jillie

                and, like it or not, israel will do whatever it has to…fuck the rest of the world.

                jews have learned the rest of the world could give a damn what happens to them…fuck the rest of the world.

                2000 rockets fired into israel from gaza and not one word from the rest of the world…fuck the rest of the world.

          • Annie Oakley

            It puts a bookend on Bush’s 8-year failed policy. Gird your loins.

            • Mary

              Not to worry, Annie.

              If Netanyahu wins the upcoming Israeli election, there will plenty more of same.

              He is Israel’s Dick Cheney.

              • Wisewoman

                Mary,
                In addition I think that when the old warrior Yizituh Rabin was asassinated it spelled doom for the whole peace process as attempted by President Clinton. We were close but because Neytanyahuh won the next election, peace and the 2 state solution was also doomed. He is truly the Isralei’s version of Dick Cheney. It appears the Israleis will repeat the same path this time around, politics on both sides always get in the way of peace.

                • jbjd

                  For readers who might not know, Mr. Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli Jew.

                • stodgie

                  well wise woman, what you said is sadly true. i have to wonder why hamas has been firing rockets all these months if they want peace. it sounds to me that they want to get the conservatives back into a position of power for more violence. sad to say that is the only conclusion that sounds reasonable.

                  • the duke of marlboro

                    America failed under the neocons, Cheney despised, and isolated, neutered internationally.

                    I dont know, looking at the Israeli neocon propensity toward violence, I can’t help but wonder what is in store for Russia, as Putin seems to think and act the same, (in some ways) similar to the neocons in the execution of his political ideology.

                    “Diplomacy,” such as it is, by force, by bomb.

          • Rob G in Chicago

            What the hell is the matter with the majority of the mainstream press, can they really be that blind and stupid ? I haven’t read many comments in the U.S. mainstream press that reflected clear and rational analysis. They all agree that Hamas should not have launched rocket attacks, but they all go on to warn Israel to “show restraint” when defending themselves, without any clue as to what they would consider to be appropriate “restraint”. Counter battery strikes are great, if the shooters are still around. Otherwise, the counterstrike simply destroys a replaceable metal tube or launcher. They also caution Israel to try hard to avoid civilian casualties (which the Israelis, unlike Hamas, already do), but rarely mention that Hamas and all of their other ill-behaved bretheren repeatedly and routinely violate the Geneva Accords by locating military facilities, arms supplies, and rocket launchers in school playgrounds and other populated areas, and then fire their rockets indiscriminately at civilian population centers. No one in the press questions how these weapons made their way to Hamas or the other groups, and when Israel destoyed 40 tunnels on the border with Egypt, creating massive secondary explosions of weapons stock piles, no one from any major U.S. news outlet saw fit to comment on that fact. No mainstream press coverage has mentioned the huge role played by Iran in all of this. Iran has been feverishly constructing and developing a nuclear weapons capability, and they have vowed to destroy Israel. The Iranians also expected that Israel was planning to unilaterally (with special weapons delivered from the U.S.) attack Iranian nuclear facilities during the transition from the Bush to Obama Administrations. Iran also was angry at Saudi Arabia and, to a lesser extent, Syria, for hinting at negotiations with Israel, and for refusing to do all that Iran was asking to keep the oil prices from decreasing. By funding and supplying Hamas and Hezbollah, and taking Hamas off their leash, Iran achieves many objectives. They keep the Israeli military too busy in a political and economic war of attrition to attack Iran during the U.S. presidential transition. They foment popular discontent and anger against the governing authorities in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Syria. They cause a price spike in the oil markets. They provide a basis and rationale for purchasing more and better weapons systems from the Russians, while providing additional cover for Russian assistance with their nuclear programs, and they do actual physical, economic, and public relations damage to Israel and the U.S. They don’t really want to destroy Israel any more than Bush wants to capture Osama. They need the Israeli “boogeyman” to rally their restless and economically suffering public. The rank and file Hamas thugs are way beyond stupid. They don’t realize that their own Hamas leadership and the Iranians are using them as expendable cannon-fodder to enrich themselves and support the rising oil prices. The Israelis have been planning this attack for many months because the rockets have never stopped flying from Gaza (despite the “ceasefire”, but that hasn’t been widely reported), and the Israeli public has been demanding that their political leaders make the rockets stop.

      • http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com vbonnaire

        The headlines this morning prove that what is needed is the “Dialogue Between Civilizations” — it was a response to Dr. Huntington’s book “Clash of Civilizations.”

        This is a moment when PEACE must be brokered by WORLD DIPLOMACY.

        Thank you for your voice and courage Larry. For those who don’t understand what is as stake — here is the deeper insight for the man behind the obit this morning:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations

        My background is Depth Psychology. I believe that this thesis is correct.

        • goldengrahme

          With all due respect to your major, VBon,
          well, DUH! Dialogue indeed, after the bombs
          stop and saner heads prevail. I doubt you will find them (sane heads)in the Hamas precincts.
          Thus the bombardment.

          Now why don’t the Israelis use those amazing
          tactical smart missiles? Let me venture a guess, because that is all this back-and-forth is about in the final analysis…speculation:

          Maybe they want to save them for the REAL war
          they know is just over the horizon–you think?
          I mean the whole world is in an economic downturn and financing war and peace is expensive.

          Secondly, with little to no personal knowledge about smart missles, technically speaking, I think perhaps if they are land-based, giving away their position would just not be Kosher or “smart.” Just a wild-assed guess, you
          understand.

          Israel has a population of 7,337,000; of these
          1,477.000 are Israeli Jews, 318,000 are
          immigrants and their families, of which
          200,000 are foreign workers. That means
          Israeli Jews are outnumbered by surrounding hostile forces about a zillion to 1…do the math. They are just a little antsy about
          open borders, tunnels bringing in more arms and
          people who would have no compunction to die for sundry causes. Life is cheap where life is cheap. Some cultures value theirs more than others.

          Ah, but there is more–consider this: the
          US has been arming Israel’s enemies to the teeth for many years with very sophisticated
          war toys–Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern
          Arab states are more than willing to buy up
          helicopters, advanced airborn radar systems, missiles (smart?) and cutting edge
          tanks. (The Germans issued a stern admonition
          critical of America’s arming of the Persian Gulf countries.) But with little else other than war machinery to sell, what choice do WE
          have?

          Who is the enemy the Arabs are defending against? Three guesses and the first two don’t count.

          Sorry, but there are always two sides to every story and every war. Unfortunately, the victims don’t get a say in the carnage. Once the Dogs of War are loosed, you never know which way they will run.

          The Israelis usually warn civilians to vacate volatile zones. They did it in Lebanon. Hizbollah claimed victory back then just because they were so well-equipped and organized, Israeli forces could not penetrate far into the country. A Syrian-backed army (and make no mistake it was an ‘army’) was then the aggressors lobing missiles across the border; but when Jews struck back, the world yelled, foul! Bad Israel! Good Hizbollah! Methinks me senses a double standard.

          Jews are damned if they do, damned if they don’t and dead if they do nothing.

          Hope this rant passes muster with the thought police.

          • goldengrahme

            CORRECTION ON ABOVE:
            There are 5,542,000 Israeli Jews; l,477,000
            Israeli Arabs, etc.

            Sorry….

            • http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com vbonnaire

              I am a pacifist. This resembles the Crusades circa 2008. I will help increase Dialogue rather than see the world face nuclear “Rapture.” I hope you see my point, very clearly tonight.

              I believe in WORLD DIPLOMACY. And I stand with what LARRY has said about war crimes.

      • mountainaires

        Amen, Larry–to both the original post and the response here.

      • orwelllives

        After reading your comments, Larry, I scrolled up and read your post again. With all due respect to you, you really don’t seem to know what your talking about. Comparing Israeli operations in Gaza to American operations in Iraq is quite a stretch. American soldiers in iraq are fighting thousands of miles away from American shores – Israeli soldiers are fighting in their back yard. Iraqi insurgents in Iraq don’t want to destroy the USA – Hamas does want to destroy Israel. American cities are not targeted – Israeli cities are. A missile sent from Gaza landed near Ashdod in the center of Israel. In the war with Hizbullah in 2006 rockets landed in Haifa, Israel third largest city. If Israel wanted to kill Arabs just for the sake of killing, the death toll would have been much higher, you can be sure of that. Israel frequently faces absurd charges about committing “genocide” or “ethnic cleansing” against the Palestinians. Well, the Palestinians must be the only people in the history of the world to actually increase in numbers while being supposedly targeted for “ethnic cleansing”. If it wasn’t so sad, it would be laughable.

  • stodgie

    as long as hamas is in control there will be no peace. in fact that is exactly what they want. palestine has been kept in this condition in part by hamas and certain supporters in the region for this very reason. if the leader is making more money by doing what they are doing then why should they change?????

    israel needs very clear thinking right now. the so called appeasers in the background of the obama campaign would add nothing to this discussion but hubris much like they did during the election. we need cooler heads here. i am glad now that hillary in at state.

    • Mary

      I think we can all assume stodgie will be voting for Israel’s own neocon, Benjamin Netanyahu.

      Easy to pick up on his inclinations.

      • stodgie

        like i said above mary you have a galloping case of stupid and no reason to be arrogant.

    • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

      I always find it ironic that the bad guys Hamas are in fact a creation of the Israelis — supposedly to counter balance the PLO.

      When Israel meddles in the politics of others — like Lebanon — they don’t do a very good job.

      It’s always interesting how some can defend the mass destruction of civilian infrastructure in Lebanon can be defended — it was a complete over reaction to a small guerrilla action of an outlaw gang. Of course that attack had been long in the planning — only wanting for a trigger to excuse the planned destruction of Lebanon. Again there was a water rights issue — Israel gets a large supply of water from the Lebanon mountains. The theory is that if the Israeli water supply was threatened they would use aggressive measures to secure the water. Even it that means clearing out humans from South Lebanon. And leaving behind cluster bombs throughout the region — certainly helps to make the population forever aware that death waits.

      Also Hezbollah (nasty, evil creatures) are a result of Israel’s early invasion of Lebanon — there was a power vacuum and Hezbollah filled it.

      Lebanon was once a delightful civilized country on the Caribbean — one that Navy personnel on a Med deployment loved to visit.

  • the duke of marlboro

    Sorry, but the Israeli military is acting like a bunch of pathetic thugs rather than conduct themselves with professionalism and skill. You do not just kill Palestinians because you can. You kill the assholes shooting the rockets/missiles. Israel has the means to do that but clearly prefers killing large numbers of Palestinians. Sorry folks, but thems the facts.

    Couldn’t agree more: Israel, the Israeli army looks scattered, and chaotic.

    What a mess the extreme right wing neocons have been for Israel, more than for the US even.

    I sincerely hope they are able to recover, in time.

    This isn’t intelligent military strategy, this is posturing, with irreversible, and catastrophic results.

    Certainly, I hope the US distances itself from this mess.

  • yttik

    Unfortunately Israel’s attacks in Gaza will now spark outrage in the Muslim world, including Afganistan and Iraq. Pakistan and India are already tense. Our relationship with Russia and Iran is touch and go. One wrong step and the whole thing could fall apart. We’re kind of teetoring on the edge of a cliff here and Israel’s response has not made things any easier.

  • the duke of marlboro

    It will be very interesting to see how a State department under Hillary Clinton will respond, this after the clown show o ‘mo led by Dick Cheney.

    A tremendous amount of work cut out for her, I hope Obama knows enough to let her establish her authority, she will need to create order, first and foremost.

    Boy, imagine having to create a diplomatic corp from scratch, able to hit the ground running, given Dick Cheney’s fantasy romp in the American presidency, destroying all diplomatic leverage.

    Cheney’s actions, IMO, effectively isolating the US internationally, hence severely limiting, neutering US response.

    • workingclass artist

      Hmmmm….it will be telling…No?

  • mountainaires

    Just a small reminder of why this disproportionate response by Israel is so objectionable:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/22/israel

    • extreme ways

      What has 60 years of proportionate response accomplished? They don’t want Israel to exist. Is that, or is that not a given?

      • Mary

        GAWD, the propaganda is thick and nauseating.

        This is not about Israel “existing.”

        This is about the international community, led by the Bush White House, ALLOWING Israel to blockade food, water, fuel, and medical supplies from Gaza for 2 1/2 years.

        Stunning, really, that Israel has been allowed to create a Palestinian Warsaw Ghetto, after their own history.

        Besides, Netanyahu is running for election. He’s a Jewish Dick Cheney.

        • Rob G in Chicago

          Mary:

          Israel has continuously opened Gaza crossings for food and medical supplies, but are often forced to close those same crossings when Hamas targets those same crossings with rocket and mortar fire. Those tunnels used to smuggle food and medicine from Egypt have also been used to smuggle foreign fighters and arms from Iran. When Israel used bunker buster bombs to destroy 40 tunnels (there are still dozens of tunnels untouched), there were many huge secondary explosions of stored explosives and ammunition. Even a spoiled can of beans does not explode like a weapons cache. Your comparisons to the Warsaw Ghetto are particularly insulting, as the Germans did not ever open the gates to the Warsaw Ghetto for humanitarian aid.

          Golda Meir:

          “We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”

      • interested party

        extreme/
        Have you read the article? It states, back is 2006, Hamas was part of bargaining pact agreeing to recognize Israel’s right to exist. The prisoner’s agreement was rejected by Israel, do to Hamas not agreeing to renounce violence.
        Larry or others posting here are not arguing Israel’s right to exist. Palestinians and Jews both have an historic “right” to their homeland. I would pray this can be accomplished at least somewhat peaceably without annihilating the other side.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Mr. Johnson,
    It appears that the Israeli’s very heavy handed use of force is not productive.

    What impact will this have toward Iran?
    How does one stop the flow of arms into Gaza?

    As a commenter above stated this intervention will inflame the Muslim Street. This morning at the “western white house”(UG!) the spokesperson predictably blamed Hamas for breaking the “cease fire”. Also, a report I watched said the Israeli’s had “destroyed” some rockets that where on a remote controlled timed fuse, indicating that the people setting these up were long gone.

    Israel has a lot of problems; from Iran, Syria’s military installations in Lebanon and Gaza. Do you think they are acting out of pure frustration?

  • Mandelay

    Larry really deserves a tip of the cap for his courageous writing on this topic. It’s too bad that the word “courageous” even needs to be applied in this case but we have, in our country, for too long, been reading/hearing only half of this story in our newspapers and t.v. news shows. I’ve never been to that part of the world. I am very supportive of the right of Israel to exist in peace. But, I also feel for the people who have been displaced from their homes following the events of 1948. They have been given despair and poverty and unbelievable restrictions on their human rights for too long, and our politicians have been silent on this for too long for fear of losing elections. Those who were displaced have lived with despair for so long. How can they feel anything but frustration and a sympathy for violence? So I call Larry’s comments “courageous” because he sticks his neck out in a very (sadly) reactive environment of censorship. And that’s a shame. Jumping all over Larry for making these comments is just as bad as calling someone a racist because they did not support Barack Obama. If we continue to smear other voices in the debate then we surely deserve to lose the freedoms to think and question and challenge what is made to pass for the majority opinion.

    • Annie Oakley

      Well said, Mandelay.

      For myself I would add that I see the new administration’s table being set. I had so hoped that the domestic business of America would have been top priority.

      • Thinker

        I agree, well said Mandelay.

    • Lisa Hinman

      Mandeley,

      What events in 1948 are you talking about? Who was displaced and from where?

      I can’t place that in my knowledge of history.

      • Idiocracy08

        a little something called settlements at the least.

    • slobodaneee

      Well here is one for the books. I think I agree with Larry on this.

    • Rob G in Chicago

      Mandelay:

      What happened to the Jewish populations living in Arab countries in 1948 ? If the Jewish population survived and made it to Israel, they were taken in and made citizens. The Arab states refused to do the same with the displaced Palestinians, and dumped the problem on the UN. The Arab countries used the Palestinians then, and they continue to use them now. They prefer to pick at an open wound rather than care for the wound.

  • Patrick Walker

    Think of the Israeli attacks as a make-work project for the unemployed in places like Decatur.

    Where do you think 95% of the weaponry used by Israel comes from? Where it’s made?

    Now the US has to restock Israel and Congressmen and Congresswomen love it. Do you actually think it’s AIPAC calling the shots? Or is it Lockheed Martin and friends?

    • Mary

      It’s an outgoing gift to Israel from the Bush administration neocons, with a wink and a nod.

      Executed quickly, before Obama got inaugurated, and planned for 6 months, per Haaretz.

      Frikkin incredible.

  • stodgie

    i have read all of this with great interest. over the years i have had different opinions based on what was happening at the time. i have had real anger an israel for their perceived over reaction etc. i did not like bush’s foreign policy in regards to the middle east and much preferred what clinton tried to do. i think larry is a deep thinker and makes some excellent points here. debate overall is a good thing. we can learn from it and expand our views. the one thing that worries me in regards to the usa are the ones who have shown a real distain for israel or downright hatred. they want to blame israel for everything and save their tears for the other side. that is so wrong! a measured response is needed here and not kicking israel to the curb and some might like. getting cozy with hamas(if they would even allow it) would work against our welfare. israel has been our best friend, warts and all, these past 50 years. yes, we need a more measured response and if palestine is to finally receive some real help, her arab neighbors need to step in FIRST! YEAH that’s right first. they are the closest with the most to lose and they sit back allowing us to use our political capital and real capital while they complain. it won’t work anyway without them.

    • stodgie

      i forgot to add that those i referred to that worry me most are some of obama’s advisors.

      • workingclass artist

        agreed….scary fo sure!

      • Mary

        That’s what Olmert and Barak thought, too.

        It’s why they planned this airstrike for 6 months, and then executed before Obama came into office.

        They knew Bush/Cheney would give tacit approval of slaughtering women and children, just like they did in Lebanon.

        See latest Haaretz article condemning same.

  • TheWinterSolstice

    Mr. Larry Johnson,
    Please take your head out of *your* @ss, buy a plane ticket, move to Israel and live there for a year. We’ll see who you call “thugs” then. And why don’t you take Markos Moulitsas of DailyKos fame with you? Let’s see if you can survive there a *month* let alone a year.
    You are a coward and a weakling. It’s easy to talk about people and call them thugs when you live thousands of miles away. Why don’t you live their lives and see how you do?
    Coward. Weakling. @ss.

    • xax

      Whoa. I get the emotion, but that was harsh.

  • It’s Not Me

    Just a point of fact….Israel could have wiped every Palestinian, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, Saudi off the face of the earth….if they chose to do so. They have the military power to do just that and have chosen not to. They have shown restraint since their existence.

    Who elected Hamas to lead them (knowing full well they are a terrorist organization)? The Palestinian people. Who’s terrorizing Israel? Hamas. Hamas operates out of highly populated areas….ON PURPOSE, but you know that already. Do the people that elected Hamas to lead them allow them to set up their rocket launchers in their living rooms? You bet your ass they do. If hundreds of Palestinians are killed in an Israeli hit…blame HAMAS.

    Just another point of fact…the reason more Israelis don’t die is because they have BOMB SHELTERS. Why do they have bomb shelters? Because of all the attacks by Hamas who was elected BY THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE to lead the “poor Palestinian people.” And don’t forget about the Lebanon, Syrian, Iraqi, Hezbollah, PLO and Fatah attacks over the years. Hamas is just the current thug…..the terrorist group du jour.

    The propaganda has worked thus far…..”the poor Palestinian people are so picked on” (check out Arafat’s Swiss bank accounts maybe? His wife lives VERY WELL…I wonder if SHE and Yasser ever lived in squalor? I think not.)

    Hopefully Israel has had enough and will do what needs to be done to FINALLY end this bullshit. Everyone in the world hates Israel anyway, so WHAT THE HELL. FINISH IT. Put an end to it.

    The Palestinian people elected these thugs to lead them…knowing who and what they are. I have a very difficult time conjuring up sympathy for enablers of their own poverty and misery in life. Hamas has always been a Jew hating/Israel hating terrorist group and always will be. I don’t believe for one second that the Palestinians who ELECTED THEM didn’t know that. They knew.

    Israel needs to do what Israel needs to do to finally rid herself of these terrorist THUGS……whom the “poor Palestinian people” gave power to.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Dude,
      You got to lay off the Israeli kool aid. Israel at one time engendered sympathy in the United States because it was perceived as the David in a battle with Goliath. However, starting with the invasion of Lebanon back in the 80s, the Israelis transformed themselves into Goliath and forgot humility and mercy.

      • It’s Not Me

        With good reason they forgot humility and mercy. How many rockets and deaths must Israel endure before it’s acceptable to you for them to react? Damn. I’d like to see how you would react if you had rockets dropping in your neighborhood for years on end. Just how much humility and mercy would you have? Walk in their shoes for a while.

        I would imagine one rocket in YOUR house would set you off. They have had THOUSANDS lobbed at them. Christ. How would you like to have to spend weeks in a damn bomb shelter? How would you like to have to worry about when the next explosion was coming? Would you worry about your wife? Your children? Your family? Israel is no different. Why the double standard for Israel just because they have a huge military? If they didn’t have a huge military they wouldn’t exist. They would have been annihilated years ago and I suppose that would be OK for many people, but not me. Sorry.

        FYI…I’m a Dudette. ;)

        • the duke of marlboro

          You know, I understand and agree to the need and right to defend, but it’s pretty obvious this isn’t working.

          Right?

          So now what?

          How is the Israeli economy doing, the infrastructure, the social infrastructure?

          Culture becoming slowly isolated from the west, the constant wars destroying Israel, internally?

          Why?

          Where will Israel be in fifty years, given it’s current course?

          Should we take a wider view of the situation, then, perhaps intelligent diplomacy, again, from the new American administration providing some solution, given the developments of the last ten years?

          • jvsp

            How does one negotiate with someone who doesn’t recognize one’s right to even exist? How is diplomacy even possible? It isn’t.

            • the duke of marlboro

              Right, one can’t neogotiate, one learns to isolate, and break, but peacefully.

              First thing is to isolate the disparate factors, correct?

              But certainly, the bombs aren’t working.

              • jvsp

                By “isolate” and “break” what do you mean?

                I do agree that as you state the “bombs aren’t working”, but I don’t think the Israelis believe they will either.

                • the duke of marlboro

                  I suppose I would start to look at it from an integrated military and social perspective, ie, who is feeding and profiting off of the terrorism?

                  How is it best to isolate, and therefore neutralize those actors?

                  I don’t know, maybe it’s a one step forward, two steps back situation, it takes time, but over, say, fifty years, perhaps improvement can be seen, ie even if WE have to suffer the violence, perhaps our grandchildren won’t, or it will lessen, insuring survival…

                  (And it helps to have true US intelligence and military muscle in the game, too, the type seen prior to Cheney/Bush.)

            • WildChild

              Since when does country have a right to exist? Looking at my map I don’t see the Soviet Union anymore. Rome is a simply a city and not a nation. The confederate state of america, a mire abomination of imagination.

              • jvsp

                There are certainly those who believe Israel has no right to exist. Perhaps they don’t. But if one wants diplomacy to succeed, to avoid further violence… Well, that is another matter.

                • WildChild

                  I have little confidence in either argument. In our own country we recognize the power of our government and the existence of country as an extension of the people’s will. It has no inherent right to exist because in making existence a right we would free our government from the compact of consent. It’s right to exist would trump our consent. Government with the right to exist means a country that is free of the will of the people. In gaining it’s freedom from us, we cease to be the controlling authority over it.

                  as far as diplomacy goes, it only exists between foreign powers. There is no nation of Palestine. There is no government of Palestine. Of course, we’d have to be scratching our heads as to why there is no nation of Palestine for the nation of Israel to conduct diplomacy with …if countries had the right to exist.

                  • the duke of marlboro

                    But it’s a little bit more than an intellectual exercise, isn’t it?

                    • WildChild

                      yup, it’s thirty year injustice played out on the world stage. For some crazy reason the injustice has the right to exist.

        • Wisewoman

          ItsNotforme: You forgot one very important thing in your rant against Larry and that is that Israel set up Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO. Did you know that? Its all about jockeying for political position from the left and right politicians in the country at the expense of the people both Israleis and Palestinians.

          • the duke of marlboro

            I can’t say I disagree with you.

            And given what Bush and Cheney did to this country, it’s easy to see the Israeli people are also vitimized by mediocre, criminal leadership.

            But the Israeli people are not their government, nor are they (necessarily) (some of) the insipid military leaders.

            What a mess.

          • It’s Not Me

            That wasn’t a rant against Larry. That was an opinion on my part which just so happens to be different than Larry’s and for Hamas being funded by Israel years ago…yes, I know that. What’s that got to do with Larry’s post?

            This is 2008. The world is different now and much more dangerous. Is it not? Israel cannot let Hamas continue lobbing rockets over their border and killing its citizens. I know of no other country that is expected to allow that to happen. Not one country. The double standard here is unbelievable.

  • CamdenRave

    Israel is hitting the command and control centers of Hamas. They are hitting the symbols of Hamas. They are hitting the leaders of Hamas. Just hitting a site where a rocket was launched from doesn’t make sense. Hamas would just launch their rockets from somewhere else. This is war.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Regurgitating Israeli propaganda is not analysis. Look at the pictures of what the Israelis are bombing. They are killing children. Little girls and boys. Look at the hatred you have for the muslim radicals who killed Americans on 9-11. Why do think that Palestinians, who view the Israeli attacks in much the same vein, are somehow supposed to perceive Israel as noble and well intentioned? The cycle of violence has got to be broken. Both Judaism and Islam believe in the “eye for an eye” principle of retribution.

      • TeakwoodKite

        The cycle of violence has got to be broken.

        Mr. Johnson, how much of the cycle is feed by people / states using this conflict for their own agenda?

        It would seem to me (a novice) that much of the physical conflict could be resolved if they stopped feeding it.

        Sorry if my questions are of the mark, being just a novice observer of 30 years of an “eye for an eye”.

        It saddens me greatly to see innocent life lost.

        • the duke of marlboro

          It is an asymmetrical terrorist war, what, and where is, “command and control?”

          Could be in MOSCOW for all we know…

      • Jillie

        LOOK AT THE PICTURES OF THE ISRAELI WOMEN AND CHILDREN KILLED BY THE MUSLIM FANATICS OVER THE YEARS…

        FUCK YOU, LARRY JOHNSON, YOU HAVE BECOME A LOSER TALKING POINT FOR HAMAS, HEZBOLLAH, AND THE PLO.

        GOOD-BYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE.

        • the duke of marlboro

          Wow.

          Do0d(ette), calm down, all this over emotionalism isn’t helping, you shouldn’t let your fears dictate.

  • bell’artista

    I am really disappointed at the level of Anti-Semitism and Israel bashing going on here, and Larry, please refrain from telling me to take my head out of my sweet Jewish ass.
    G-d forbid a commenter should make much mention of race in regards to Obama, their post quickly vanishes but posts equating Israel/Jews with 666 and the devil remain. Again, this is disappointing.
    Why cherry pick racism?

    As has been noted here by several( workingclass artist, lisa hinman,it’s not me…thank you )Hamas has deliberately placed their centers of operations, hidden training facilities, weaponry, tunnels etc amidst vulnerable citizenry not by accident but in an attempt to shield them, believing that now, as in the past, Israel will merely launch perfunctory strikes.
    Perhaps the current timing has something to do with Obama and his advisors/ME envoy who hold no love for Israel and their imminent annointment. …but what Hamas, funded by Lebanon, Syria, Iran etc is hardly a new phenomenon.

    The news bit below is a case in point, how would it be possible for Israel to “surgically strike” this weapon hidden beneath a hospital? Israel can do no more than warn occupants to evacuate, which is more than any Palestinians have ever done for Israelis.
    ——————
    Report: Hamas hiding most potent missiles under Gaza hospital

    Israel’s Channel One News reported on Monday evening that Hamas is hiding its most potent missiles under Gaza City’s main hospital.

    Israeli officials are discussing how to destroy the massive cache of Grad missiles.

    One of the rumored options is to give the Palestinians three hours to evacuate the hospital before Israeli jets destroy the building and the weapons warehouse beneath.

    • It’s Not Me

      Even if Israel gave the Palestinians 3 hours to evacuate the hospital, they wouldn’t do it just so they could have a huge body count for their press releases. That’s how those people operate. They have ZERO regard for human life. NONE. Their goal is to kill as many Jews as they can and if their own people die in the process…it’s all for “the cause.” Easy come, easy go.

      If Israel does give them 3 hours warning, they best announce it on National TV so the world knows about it. Otherwise, the Palestinians will just use it for more propaganda.

    • xax

      And bell’artista summed up my thoughts on this perfectly.

      I’m not arguing with Larry, but if they are really hiding these weapons systems so close to residential areas, how do you surgically strike that? The only way I can figure is to go in on the ground, and we all know that doesn’t work.

      I got to agree with a couple of people on this board. It seems like they are stashing these things near civilian targets on purpose. And if you know that they have 100 rockets in an underground bunker next to a mall, and you know they are capable of using that entire cache in less than a week and that their target will be your country, what do you do? I’m looking for honest answers. Cause this ain’t easy.

      • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

        Pay attention to the video above that shows a guy firing a mortar from a back yard of a house in Iraq. He is blown up but not the house. They have precision munitions. But the Israelis are more about intimidation and bullying at this point. At least that is how I interpret their actions.

        • Thinker

          This is how I interpret their actions as well, and it’s not about “Anti-Semitism” at all. I get tired of people saying “anti-Semitism” when we are simply looking at their actions and not liking what we see.

          But if someone says, “All Jews are evil, Israel shouldn’t exist.” THAT’S Anti-Semitism.

          Israel has precision technology, they can be more accurate, they can limit the amount of civilian deaths, and they are choosing not to do these things. That is constructive criticism.

    • mike

      How can you say people are anti semite? What does that mean? The Jews in the United States are ASHKENAZI Jews but their skin color is white. In israel they are Brown and in Kenya, and Ethiopia they are black. So is this anti semite based on religious beleifs or is this based on ethnicity?

      How about jesus the king of the jews calling anybody that is not a jew a gentile inferring that they are unclean and that he is the son of god and that the gentiles dont have a father or are bastards. So who is the racist one here prejudging people? jesus should look in the mirror because his real father, which was mary’s father abandoned him at birth and somebody else took care of him. So who is the bastard and who has the dead beat dad the gentiles or the jews

      By the way I am mankind the kind man a gentile or a gentleman that had a mother and father that loved me. I was born in Germany in the Garden of utopia in a place called Europia and I am not a Jew from the Garden of Eden in Ethiopia.

      In Utopia the Good Lord created mankind which were many people and out of those many became one people called the Europeans just like E Pluribus Unum in the United States, out of many came one people the Americans.

      The Jews say they come from Adam and Eve the father of this world who are sons of God. Satan also said he was the father of this world too. This is not hatred or antisemitism but what the bible says.

      • It’s Not Me

        David Duke changed his name to Mike? Who knew?

        JFYI…my son’s Israeli born and raised Hebrew teacher is blond haired and blue eyed and has a fairer complexion than mine and I’m a green eyed, fair skinned redhead. That sort of blows your dumb ass theory to bits. Geezus. Where do you people come from? You’re so sad and pathetic.

        • mike

          You made my point hypocrite. How can I be a anti semite when they are the same as me. I know where you came from!

          • It’s Not Me

            I read your Anti Semitic 666 devil screed up above. It’s probably one of the sickest things I’ve ever read on this blog. You should be proud. You don’t know anything about me, but I know more than I need to know about you and your hatred. It oozes from your keyboard. Is there any wonder we have endless wars in the world With people like you inhabiting it? I think not.

            • Pennsylvania Red

              First mike complains about the “elitist” Christian Muslim and Jewish religions (wtf?), then he invokes the devil: a Christian construct, to insult the Jews.

              mike confused.

              mike: I really tried to read through your posts, but I felt my serotonin levels drop precipitously and my eyeballs started to bleed.

          • mike

            You see the problem with the Jews and the Muslims goes back to Abram and Sara when they were living in Africa in the Sahara Desert.Sara couldnt have children so she told her brother ABRAHAM which was her husband too to sleep with their slave or indentured servant called Hagar and from that came Ismael who was the father of the Muslims or the Arabs. Later on at the age of 99 his fertility god told Abram to change his name to Abraham by adding the HA in the middle and that he would have a child. When he had a child he was the father of the Jews called Isaaac, and he named the Desert the Sa Ha ra by putting the same ha in the middle of Sara. The problem was that Sara was very jealous over Hagar the Egyptian Slave and her son Ismael so Abraham put her and her son out into the Sahara desert with only one bottle of water and a loaf of bread where they would surely die. This is where you get that rift between the Jews and the Muslims because of what Abraham did to Ismael and his mother. I mean what type of father would abandon his minor son and her mother and send them into the desert to die. Ringing A bell with the Palestinians. hello

            • mary

              Mike

              Go tell it on the Mountain….

      • http:www.myspace.com/isomer_69 LAUREN

        Mike, the Jews in Israel come in a multitude of colors. Many of the European Jews went there when the country was started. You see many blonds and red heads and blue and green eyes there.

  • WHITEWIDOW

    uh Larry, they hide their rocket launchers amongst the civilians in palestine

    ah yes, the peaceful loving religion of islam

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  • NCgirl

    Thank you Larry for posting this. You have been able to step back and look at this objectively. There are a lot of people who are just too close to this to be objective. Sadly, those who come out and “tell it like it is” are derided as anti-semitic. Disagreeing with Israel’s political/military decisions has nothing to do with being anti-semitic. I don’t agree with either side in this conflict.

  • NoTrollZone

    A

  • NoTrollZone

    And still it continues. Israel is firing on the Palestinians from the sea and from the air. And still threatening a ground attack. The international community says stop– Israel doesn’t give a damn.
    The Palestinians are locked in and Israel is killing them.
    Anyone who questions Israel’s acts is called an anti-semeite, not even seeing the irony that anyone questioning obama was called a racist.
    Israel is wrong. They are now just committing murder- call it what they like.. they are killing people who have no defense.
    Israel should have hit the rocket sites. The should have done it by air or by a ground force maneuver.
    They are killing civilians. They are war criminals for these acts.

    • It’s Not Me

      Hamas killed civilians for the last 7 years and are war criminals. Hamas deserves everything they’re getting. HAMAS brought this upon the people who elected them and the people who elected them knew what Hamas is and always will be…a terrorist group.

      Israel will defend herself whether you like it or not.

      • the duke of marlboro

        Israel will “defend” itself right into a failed state, in reality.

        • It’s Not Me

          You think so? I don’t. Israel could destroy the ME if they REALLY “chose” to do so. Screw the rest of the world and what they think. They hate Israel ….so why shouldn’t they thumb their noses at those who hate them? Israel is entitled to defend herself against the thugs who are hellbent on destroying her. The US would do the same and no one can argue that we wouldn’t. Look at Iraq.

  • mary

    On a lighter note, PLEASE see Darren Hutchison’s DISSENTING JUSTICE blog today “Change has Arrived: The N.Y. Times Criticizes Obama for the First Time”. Incredible! Darren, as African American Law Professor writes on civil rights, women’s and gay rights, but his perspective (he may not admit!) is that of PUMA! His amazing essay On the Low road to Hypocrisy–Media, Sexism and Hillary Clinton, bback in April blasted the media for their fear of critizing Obamarama and Hillary-bashing with no just cause. But he’s making a really phenomenal link by blasting the media for their kid glove treatment of Obamarama beause he’s black, thus post-racial, and he finds that demeaning to all blacks and says it will have a negative impact on race relations…

  • http:www.myspace.com/isomer_69 LAUREN

    Thank you Larry for telling it like it is. I was in Israel/Palestine two years ago with a Palestinian friend and a Jewish friend. I was disgusted at how the Palestinians were made to live and how unfair the laws are towards them. The way I saw it, it was like the way the Nazis made the Jews live before they started sending them off to concentration camps.

    • Shtuey Shtuey

      While you were in Israel/Palestine did you wonder why Mahmoud Abbas and his cronies all drive German sedans and wear fine suits? Did you stop and wonder how it is that people can live in such abject poverty when the Palestinian Authority has received billions of dollars from Israel, the World Bank, and the international community ($7.5 billion last year alone)? Do you wonder at all why Arafat’s widow lives in Paris on the money he embezzled, stealing from the mouths of his own people? Of course not, because you have a convenient enemy in Israel.

      The saddest crime in all of this is how the Palestinian people are forced to live in a squalid mafioso regime, by the very people who claim to represent them. Why do you think Hamas won the Gaza elections? Because Fatah is completely corrupt and exploitative that’s why. They aren’t too thrilled with their other choice. Kinda like here when the only choices we have is one corrupt party or the other, except ours don’t point guns at us, at least not yet.

      The situation in Israel and the territories is not black and white at all, and anyone who tries to make it so is foolish and naive.

      • WildChild

        A billion is a thousand million. If there was only a million Palestinians, the few billions you complain about would only translate into a few thousand per Palestinian in cold hard cash. A few thousand isn’t much to build a life on. Also there’s more then a million Palestinians. In the end it isn’t the Palestinians that are forcing their people live in squalor. Living in a concentration camp doesn’t give you much control over your destiny. Of all the people on the earth, the jews of Israel should know that.

        • Shtuey Shtuey

          Here’s an idea, pull your head out from your rear and read.

          http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_pa_corrupt.php

          • Shtuey Shtuey

            http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/000602.html

            http://www.acdemocracy.org/article/invent_index.php?id=259

            Yeah, the Palestinian Authority really gives a rip, and it’s all Israel’s fault. You keep telling yourself that.

            • WildChild

              LOL yeah I pulled my head out of my rear a long time ago. That’s why the disparity of power in this ongoing conflict between the Palestinians and Israeli’s (I mean what are we talking about, 60 years now?) is so glaringly apparent. I understand that you need a boogie man. Every conflict needs one. … no two, one for each side. Otherwise we have no one to dehumanize. That makes the killing all that much more difficult. So we say that the Palestinians are bunch of corrupt assholes. Look, we gave them all this money to build a country and they blew it on pizza and beer. How dare they? They don’t care about themselves so why should we care about them?

              The only problem with that argument is that the Palestinian authority isn’t a sovereign authority. It’s just a bunch of guys who derive their power from the consent of the people of Israel , not the people of Palestine. The Palestinians can have all the elections they want to and they will all be a sham,, because Israel is the final controlling authority. Israel controls the land, the air, the water, the borders, the flow of money in and out, the flow of goods in and out, the flow of jobs in and out. So please don’t blame the Palestinians, The Palestinians are locked up in their cozy little concentration camp in all that character building squalor behind the luxury walls and polished barbed wire… just like Israelis built it for them. All the paranoia in the world won’t change the plain and simple truth that the Jews of Israel, became that which hurt them the most.

    • orwelllives

      Wow, you’ve been to Israel! Well, that sure makes you an expert!

  • blogforce one

    Larry, I am surprised that you cannot appreciate the military value of a truncation and decapitation of the Hamas senior command with lightning PRECISION attacks by the IDF. It is well known that taking out commanders in the field is the quickest path to victory. If it was as easy as you say then whay has Israel not been able to stop the rockets in the past?? Simple because the rocket attacks are STATE sponsored Namely IRANI GRADS. What would you do if you were in command? WAIT for them to be nuclear tipped which will happen if this terrorist nest is not cleaned out. Seems that EVERYONE wants Hamas gone except IRAN AL Quaeda and……..you Larry??? please explain.

  • James

    Frankly, I’m tired of the portrayal that Palestinians = evil, Israel = pure good. You can criticize ANY foreign policy except Israel in the US. And if you do make comments regarding Israeli decisions, somehow you’re accused of being an anti-Semite. Sound familiar?

    Israel’s people are beautiful, but their government is controlled by right-wing nutjobs. Total annihilation is what they’re looking for and it doesn’t seem to give anyone pause. They wouldn’t lose any sleep if every last Palestinian is dead and that’s the sad truth.

    • stodgie

      ok james, what so great about hamas? please! what have they done for peace? i just watched a video where they were calling for all out war and i suppose the total destruction of israel. sound familar? you can’t excuse the actionS of hamas and blame it all on israel. i agree that israel has made many mistakes. the lebanon fiasco was a horrific tragedy. but if you think that hamas is going to be your new best friend or the united states, i highly recommend you think about that. they wish for our destruction as well. and quess what, IT IS NOT ALL OUR FAULT!

      • James

        Where the fuck did I say anything about Hamas?

        Israel could intelligently attack specific terrorists, but they DO NOT WANT TO. They’re looking to destroy the entire region. It’s transparently obvious.

        • stodgie

          do watch the language. thanks! ok, so please give me some info about how they want to destroy the region. again what has hamas done for peace. james, it is a two way street and both sides are at fault here. i see you with a real fixation on israel and it strikes me as one sided.

          • James

            Sorry that the language offended you (my non-apology apology).

            Israel has the right to defend itself, I’m criticizing the way they are conducting to themselves. They have the technology to intelligently approach this, but choose not to.

            I never said anything good about Hamas. It’s hard for me to be sympathetic to Israel when they respond with total annihilation in response to 1 death. It’s not working and hasn’t worked for decades.

            It is Israel that seems fixated with attacking the region.

            • stodgie

              ok thanks for that! i agree that israel in recent years has been a major disappointment. the wall really is bad news. i also don’t like the idea of their taking land that isn’t theirs. nothing good comes from that. but the suicide bombers for one thing keeps this tragedy going. it gets the israeli cititzen enraged and then the war hawks get back in power. a real tragedy!

              • James

                Your post isn’t what I expected. Sarcasm?

                • stodgie

                  no sarcasm at all james! the military for us has sucked up need money here and we haven’t really won that much in iraq. they can’t wait for us to leave. israel tried using their military in lebabon and that was a real fiasco. i support using pragmatism. yeah i support israel to a point. some on here assume this and that about what i really think. unfortunately that seems to be happening a lot right now overall.

                  i have to run now. have to feed the pets and family. have a good new year if i don’t see you on here again before then.

                  • James

                    Thank you. I’m guilty of assuming that you’re an unconditional supporter. Guess you’re not?

  • Ron

    Larry, this is the most moronic thing I’ve ever seen you post. Talk about bullshit. Did you not see the cockpit video of the Israeli strike yesterday against an underground missile launcher? Did you not see a missile misfire up out of the hole that was bombed?

    ISRAEL IS NOT BOMBING NEIGHBORHOODS!!! They’re bombing Hamas which is located in neighborhoods. This is a war against Hamas, not just pinprick strikes against rocket launchers which Israel has been doing for the past 8 years. That hasn’t worked, has it? Repeat, this is a war against Hamas.

    Hamas is an impediment to peace because they seek on the destruction of Israel. For the peace process to continue, Hamas has to be taken out of the equation. That’s what Israel is doing. Fatah can then move back into Gaza and the peace process can move forward.

    To those on the left who seek peace, in this case, war is the answer. Israel is doing the right thing even if you can’t see it.

  • mike

    Give back the land that you stole from the Palestinians and it will be all over with.Show me the legal land deed where God gave the land to you because there isnt any way I beleive one word out of your mouth. Based on your word you went an attacked a soverign nation that had lived there for over 300 years based on this logic. Be for real. Actually the land of Canaan belongs to the Canaanites or the Kenites the people that migrated from Kenya to Israel. Are you ashamed of your roots, be black and proud of who you are, those people from Africa? Get a grip and face reality and stop being savages and grow up. Forget the dark past and move into the bright future as a member of the united nations.

    • TeakWoodKite

      Mike no offense, but what are you smokin?

      Forget the dark past and move into the bright future as a member of the united nations

      WTH???

    • It’s Not Me

      Oh please stop with that crap. Give back the land you stole from the Palestinians and it will all be over with??? Whoa, Nellie. I want some of what you’re smokin’! NOTHING will EVER satisfy Hamas, Hezbollah and their ILK. You know as well as I know that Hamas and Hezbollah wish to see every Jew in Israel DEAD and a “sea of Jewish blood flowing.” No new “land deal” will EVER suffice. Please join the reality based world.

    • smitty

      If you want to go back in history, actually , the United States of America belongs to the Native Americans. Show me the deed where the USA belongs to the people who now occupy it. Show me the DEEDS WHERE any North America, Mexico and South America countries belong to the people who now occupy them. They were taken from the original occupants by the Europeans.
      Look at an old map of the Middle East and you will see countries that have radically different boundaries now than they did back then. If you want to know who owns Jerusalem, look to the Bible. King David BOUGHT the spot where the Muslim Mosque is now illegally situated and PAID for it. It was offered to him free by the owner at that time, but he insisted on paying for it because he wanted to own it legally.(2 Samuel 24:16-25)
      There is no country on this earth that now by deed and legally, belongs to the current occupants; they have all been conquered and taken over by others at some time or other. You’ll have to think up some other argument to justify saying that Israel belongs to the “Palestinians”. There was no Palestine, until the Romans after conquering Israel, changed it’s name to Palestine to punish them. They wanted to wipe the name off the face of the earth and succeeded for a long time, but Israel is back and refuses to be destroyed this time. If they are to be attacked and destroyed again, they will take a lot of others with them this time. They have learned their lesson well. “Never Again”. If they are left alone on their little piece of land (about the size of New Jersey, by the way), they will not bother anybody else and live in peace. That is all they want.

      • workingclass artist

        Hmmmm…go back further Smitty….The “original aboriginals” came across the Bering Straights…slow and steady migration from Russia…lol….
        Oldest skeletal remains found so far in the americas are european?

  • the duke of marlboro

    Israel, by mimicing the tactics of the (stupid) terrorsit groups, has in effect, become a (stupid) terrorist group.

    A failed state, I suppose, if one were to be brutally honest, it’s OBVIOUS the current tactics of retribution do not work.

    And I understand the feeling of threat, the terror, but this military knee jerk response, these tactics have led to a greater Israeli decline, like or not.

    Israel, unless it faces some brutal truths, will fail.

    The current middle class will leave, and only the violent and poor will be left, in another fifty years, it will simply be the equivalent of Palestine, absent a stable, productive middle class.

    Again, American sympathies are changing with each and every attack, and this will affect aid, and support. Stupid terrorists are brutal, civilized men are not. Israelis are supposed to be civilized, above this, able to provide another solution, one without violence, one created in conjunction with the best and brightest the US and the West, the world, has to offer — one which would be counterindicative to the more recent neocon line of “thought.”

    They will be isolated.

    When did Israel become as stupid as the terrorist groups it is fighting?

    This pains me to say, btw, I wish it were not so, but I just can’t see any other end without significant change.

    No one can do it for them…

  • the duke of marlboro

    What has the US done in regard to terrorism that has worked?

    Why does our approach in the ME, in Iraq, even in this elementary state, seem to, at the very least, keep things from exploding, or constantly denigrating into this type of fruitless warfare?

    Why doesn’t, or can’t, Israel do the same?

    And perhaps part of the problem is SOME of the Israeli politicians…

  • Gldhouston

    I disagree w/ your arguments. NQ is becoming increasingly disturbing to me.

    • James

      Then don’t read here anymore! Easy.

      • stodgie

        so james are you the hall monitor now? an important component of this blog is the ability to discuss and disagree. that is all this poster was doing here.

        • James

          No, I’m not the hall monitor. However, the post was this

          “Disagree. NQ sucks.”

          How informative.

          • stodgie

            no that isn’t what was written. he said it was disturbing. got a probem with that? then answer and have discourse. a reply a 15 year old would use is well you know not cool!

      • Thinker

        I feel the same way James.

        If you think that a site is “disturbing”, then don’t read it.

        I think huffpo is disturbing, which is why I don’t read it.

        It’s very simple.

        :)

    • the duke of marlboro

      Ok, what do you disagree with, and why?

  • Shtuey Shtuey

    Larry, I have a great deal of respect for you as an analyst, which is why it boggles the mind that you would advocate pinpoint attacks on mobile rocket launchers and operators of mortars, and go on about Israel killing Palestinians “because they can.” You know as well as I that rocket factories and depots are placed next to hospitals, in the basements of schools, in civilian businesses, all in violation of international law.

    Even the BBC reports that most of the casualties are Hamas members. If the killing is indiscriminate would not the numbers of dead be far higher? Yes, they would. Perhaps the reason why the IDF and IAF has been relatively quiet in Gaza while the rockets have been falling on Israel, prior to and during the cease fire, was to gather the most accurate intelligence possible to reduce the number of civilian dead.

    And I suppose the United States did not shed one drop of blood as a result of collateral damage in Iraq. To imply such is ludicrous and delusional.

    I am baffled as to how someone with your knowledge and expertise is able to post such inflammatory statements to your readers.

    I have many a cousin and friend who has served in the IDF. There is no force on the planet that goes to the lengths that Israel does to reduce civilian casualties, often at the risk of IDF soldiers’ lives. Sonar, infrared, a variety of technologies are employed on missions. There are protocols for dealing with Palestinian combatants using human shields. It goes on and on. What’s worse is that you know this and don’t present it.

    Do soldiers and pilots fuck up? You bet your ass they do. Israel’s, ours, Britain’s… Did Ehud Olmert fuck up Lebanon in 2006? You bet your ass he did. Had the IDF been ordered to carry out proper operations they would have focused on controlling the area between the border and the Litani River. The bombing of infrastructure was inflammatory and unnecessary, and demonstrates what happens when a labor boss and a civilian are in charge of the Israeli government and the Ministry of Defense.

    Ehud Barak is not a civilian, and these operations show it. Attacks have been concentrated, not indiscriminate, and the numbers of dead reflect that. Considering the tonnage that has been dropped, if the situation was as you suggest we’d be talking about tens of thousands dead in a Dresden style bombing. That’s not happening and you know it. If it were Hamas would be broadcasting the pictures. Of course they could be cooking up some Pallywood footage for Al Jazeera that NQ would gladly broadcast.

    • TeakwoodKite

      According to the BBS news;
      Hamas says 312 Palestinians have died since Saturday, of which the UN says 57 were civilians.

      So the UN thinks the other 255 people where “enemy combatants”?

      • Shtuey Shtuey

        The UN never misses an opportunity to shit on Israel. I’m stunned they haven’t jacked up those civilian numbers. Guess they wised up when they figured out that Israel did not perpetuate a “massacre” in Jenin during the intifada.

      • stodgie

        it sounds like precison bombing to me! however i am not an expert in these matters and don’t try and protray myself as one.

    • James

      When you define everything as a terrorist target, you run into these problems. This is intimidation meant to demoralize a people that are living in shit conditions due to Israeli laws “governing” the Palestinians.

      Give me a break. A Palestinian = terrorist in Israeli combat language. Anything is fair game and that’s the sad truth.

      • smitty

        Gaza elected Hamas to govern them. Israel does not govern them.Eqypt borders one side of Gaza.Do they do anything to help these people? No,They built a wall to keep them out and they supply them with Nothing.When Israel sent people into Gaza to repair their electric supply lines, Hamas attacked and killed some of them so they withdrew. How long would you allow shelling into your city without responding?If Hamas spent their energy and resources to help the people that elected them, they could have a decent lifestyle. Their only thought is the destruction of Israel and besides, even if the Israelis just sat back and allowed them to continue shelling their towns and never retaliated, The USA and Israel would still be hated around the Arab world. They think we are infidels and want to destroy us all. Get real! They blew up 4000 people in NYC and would do the same to all of us if they could. And they would certainly destroy Israel and any Anmericans and Jews they could get their hands on. Hamas cares nothing about the civilians that live in Gaza. If they did, they would concentrate on making their lives better, instead of creating a situation that causes them to be attacked.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Shtuey,
      Sorry you don’t agree, but you are anything but objective. I would simply note that I allow you to post your articles on NoQuarter. So, to follow your logic, by letting you post here I’m an anti-Arab semite?

      • http://ohmyvalve.blogspot.com/ shtuey

        No I don’t agree Larry, but not because of my objectivity, or presumed lack of it. I disagree because what you have presented, in terms of the IAF indiscriminately killing because it can, I believe to be patently false. As I said in my post, if Israel is dropping the kind of tonnage that is being reported, and less than 500 people are dead, they are not indiscriminately killing “because they can.” If they were doing that, in the most densely populated place on earth, tens of thousands would be dead, and as I said, I think you know that.

        And this isn’t just about stopping rockets from being launched. It’s about stopping them from being built and stockpiled. Something I think you also know.

        Do I think all this war and suffering is okay? Absolutely not.

        I do think the coverage you have presented is biased against Israel (posting video from Al Jazeera? please Larry), a situation I am considering remedying by posting on life in Sderot, and the inordinately high percentages of Israeli children suffering from post traumatic stress disorder, as well as on the human rights abuses committed by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas against Palestinians, as documented by Palestinians. But considering the level of enmity much of your readership has toward Israel, which your post serves to inflame in my opinion, I think that you are the only one here with the gravitas to present something like that, though I am still considering giving it a go.

        You have made it clear in your post that you do not subscribe to the notion that Israelis should have to live with constant bombardment. We agree on that. I think we also agree that the Palestinian people should not have to live in shit. But what many of your readers (and perhaps yourself, though I assume you do) don’t know is that Hamas and Fatah are complicit in their own people’s suffering and the world turns a blind eye to it. The truth is that they are held hostage by all sides in this conflict and there are but a few voices that truly advocate on their behalf.

        I will not tolerate anyone calling a Palestinian an animal anymore than I will tolerate it being said about Israelis. Nor will I tolerate people making Israel the villain when there is plenty of guilt to go around. Do I have the same stance regarding a suicide bomber who records a message to his people that they are blood drinkers, and that Israeli blood is the best? No. That is twisted, sick, and intolerable.

        http://www.pmw.org.il/latest%20bulletins%20new.htm

        I feel the same about Kahne Chai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahane_Chai

        I think I am aware, more than most of the commenters on this thread as to just how screwed the Palestinians are. Israel, Hamas, and Fatah all commit human rights abuses against the Palestinian people. It is very well documented, on both sides of the fence about both sides of the fence.

        Should Knesset after Knesset cave to radical fringe parties by building housing in disputed territory to appease them and maintain coaltions? I don’t think they should. Should the IDF be ripping out olive trees on Palestinian farms? No. Is it okay that Fatah embezzles billions of dollars, with the leaders living caviar dreams while their people are without running water and adequate healthcare? No. Should Fatah and Hamas be shaking down their people, forcing them to store arms in their homes against their will, and forcing people to be human shields? No. Should IDF soldiers be using Arabs as human shields against rock throwers? No. And I object to Israeli violations of human rights with as much, if not more vehemence, and have confronted Israeli officials about it at any opportunity I get. Don’t presume to know anything about my views on this issue.

        What is needed is dialogue, and education, not an environment where the lowest common denominator gets to come here and call Jews satanic, or say that Palestinians deserve what they get. Hamas? Fatah? That’s another story. The sooner people wise up and realize that neither of those groups give a shit about their people the sooner this nonsense will end. They can go to hell along with Olmert, Livni, and Bibi and the rest of the asshats in the region, in the UN, and around the world that jam their thumbs up their asses while Israeli and Palestinians continue to suffer.

        In my heart I dread that this entire operation, whether it achieves ending Hamas control of Gaza or not, is Olmert flexing his muscles for Kadima’s benefit in the upcoming elections. If it stops the rockets from falling on Israel then good. If that is the result, and Hamas control of Gaza is broken, then I hope that Israel’s guns will remain silent. If this turns out to be a stunt by Olmert and people have died for nothing you bet your ass I’ll be pissed off about it, and will continue to do what I can about it. I hope that Gazans and Israelis get to live without war and bullshit. Considering the recent history of this process i don’t hold out hope that with the same old set of players around the table that’s going to happen.

        When I see the kind of ignorance displayed by commenters here, I have even less.

        There is no black and white in this conflict. People should stop pretending that it is.

        And I’m not really sure where you get that I am implying anti-semitism on your part either. If I felt you were I’d say it. Just don’t start acting like Hamas and Fatah’s shit don’t stink.

        • jvsp

          “But what many of your readers (and perhaps yourself, though I assume you do) don’t know is that Hamas and Fatah are complicit in their own people’s suffering and the world turns a blind eye to it.”

          Spot on!!!!!

  • Retired

    Larry,

    Good post. I would add, however, that in addition to counterbattery fire, which is a good, targetted countermeasure, we also have the capability of very selectively interdicting ordnance and munitions enroute to their deployment areas with little, if any, loss of innocent life.

    As long as countervalue loss of innocent life as a result of less than discriminate military action is considered politically acceptable, if not politically beneficial in some quarters, air strikes will continue against villages so as to “make a point.” The fact that such points are often more effectively made by counterforce action like you have shown in this post seems to be lost all too frequently.

    For those who, unlike Larry, don’t know me, I have been on the “giving” end of counterforce strikes as well as the “receiving” end of both counterforce (i.e., like counterbattery fire) as well as countervalue (i.e., taking out a non-military target) actions. To a combatant, losing one’s life is part of the risk that one takes in war. Witnessing innocent civilians lose their lives just angered me and strengthened my resolve.

    • TeakwoodKite

      we also have the capability of very selectively interdicting ordnance and munitions en route to their deployment areas with little, if any, loss of innocent life.

      Thanks for saying this Retired. I have been wondering about this aspect all day long.

      Does not that interdiction occur in the originating states or as a last resort, Egypt’s border? (in this case?)

      • Retired

        It depends on the type of interdiction and the number of places that you have different types of access to the munitions. In some cases, it can literally happen on the assembly line of the manufacturing state. If it is going to happen any place else than what might be described as an “accepted zone of conflict,” one has to be very careful of how it is done so as not to make the solution worse than the problem. For example, there are clandestine techniques involving the selective application of corrosives that wreck the munition without causing any injury that would allow the “upstream opponent” to create an international incident. There are all sorts of ways of doing this; I am aware of techniques that we have employed that have directly benefited the Israelis in cases where we had access. Such a campaign takes creativity, patience, determination and will, particularly if it is going to be a long term effort. There is no glory, because in the best ops, the bad guys may not realize what is happening (like control systems constantly rusting out before a rocket can be deployed, for instance). Israel is certainly smart enough to do this, but my experience with them is they like to make a splash to satisfy both their egos as well as for domestic political consumption.

        • Zeke

          It may also be possible that Israel is hitting Hamas hard right now exactly because Obama was illegally elected and they know that they must now be their own best potential deterrent? Since any fool can clearly see (evident even here in a growing anti-Israel sentiment) that Israel can expect only bad news from Barack the Usurper, they fel it necessary now to show the Arab world what is in store for any state who messes with them.
          It must never be forgotten that Israel has no “Next time” available to them. Now, after Obama’s election, they feel more alone in a world wishing for its demise than ever before.
          America and Americans are clearly in the dark as to the degree of violence constantly perpetrated on them.
          If this were to happen anywhere along the border of the United States, we would all be calling for a full scale invasion and eradication of everyone involved.
          But put that shoe on Israel and all of a sudden they’re evil bastards?
          Sorry, Larry, Israel will never get a mulligan on under-reacting. If they ever lose, they ALL DIE. That is a priority that trumps any surgical strikes or other such lightweight response. In case nobody’s been paying attention, Radical Muslims have only one agenda and an existent state of Israel is not on it.
          We can pontificate on what level of response is appropriate but when the result of an under-response is the deaths of everyone you know and love, the rules get blurred very quickly.

        • TeakwoodKite

          There is no glory.

          If I had to choose it would be to “strengthened my resolve.”

          Thanks for the insights Retired and your service.

    • Shtuey Shtuey

      The IDF cannot interdict munitions fired in Gaza unless they are in Gaza. Do you suggest that Israel should maintain an on the ground military presence there to accomplish this?

      • TeakwoodKite

        Shtuey, what percentage of munitions are made in Gaza? Those ingrediants that are used to produce these weapons (such as they are) are to be found in Gaza?

        Respectfully, without taking a position on your other posts on this thread, the arms end up in Gaza, but from what I have read many of the rockets are made in Iran, Syria…and who knows where else.

      • Retired

        Perhaps you should go back and reread my posts. I do not suggest that interdiction be limited to Gaza or to the IDF. True strategic interdiction is a multifaceted campaign that begins at least at the source of raw materials used to manufacture the end product or products intended to be neutralized (for instance, munitions) and continues through to the final employment location of said end products (for instance, the launch site of a munition). To illustrate with a very simplistic example of the latter, if an indigenous agent in the pay of Mossad activates a timed incendiary charge to a rocket an hour before it is to be launched, said rocket has been interdicted. As an example of the former, if another indigenous agent acting under the direction of Mossad (perhaps false flagged) introduces a fast acting corrosive into the rocket propellant on the, say, Iranian assembly line where rockets are being assembled (I use this as a hypothetical example only), these rockets have similarly been interdicted.

        Israel is engaged in a strategic campaign for its very survival. In those circumstances, all Israeli goverment agencies, not just the IDF, can be called upon to contribute their capabilities to the effort at many levels.

  • the duke of marlboro

    We have family currently serving in the military, training for this and that — one thing he mentioned was the role of SOME of the military in Afgahnistan — small forces setting up in rural areas, helping to not only provide defense, (or offense) but also creating infrastructure, whether schools, housing, or the establishment of some sort of governmental system.

    Very small scale, but almost like a military missionary, if you will.

    Sort of off topic, sorry.

    • Zeke

      The ones you refer to are the:

      Fighting Soldiers from the Sky,
      Fearless men who jump and die,
      Men who mean just what they say,
      The Brave men of the Green Beret

      It has been the primary mission of the U.S. Army Special Forces to do exactly what you described from the day they were conceived.
      The great moral imperative, “To Free From Oppression” is their motto and the best way to do that has always been to improve the lives of the indigenous peoples the Berets help.
      Of course, teaching them how to stomp the shit out of bad guys has its good points too.

  • stodgie

    i was just thinking about the criticism, rightly so, leveled at bush for using the military when other options such as police actions and close cooperation with other countries including their spy/police networks might have worked much better. the military solution isn’t working here. so what to do? condemn both sides would be a start!

  • CTN

    Larry,

    I have not read the comments thread, so I apologize in advance if you addressed these points already. . . . However, you ignore several critical facts in this post and, even worse, you minimize the nature and intent of HAMAS in order to make your point.

    Simply put, HAMAS is not merely “some assholes with mortars . . . trying to stir things up.” HAMAS is a designated terrorist organization that is resolved to destroy Israel (along with the rest of radical Islam), and it is also the de facto ruling authority in Gaza. Moreover, since HAMAS’ military operation is fully integrated into the fabric Gaza’s neighborhoods, and not merely one or two isolated mortar operations in an isolated location (as in your two examples), it behooves Israel to level its infrastructure, as carefully as possible, to insure thorough eradication.

    The two videos you gave furnish exquisite examples of perfect accuracy, but they are false analogies. Israel is not fighting one or two “assholes” launching mortars from street corners or from roadside shrubs, contra your implication; Israel is fighting a well-organized army of terrorists who hide their operation among women and children, deliberately putting innocent lives at risk, which is one more reason we call them “terrorists.”

    HAMAS declared war on Israel’s civilian population, while hiding among its own civilians. Therefore neither they nor you should complain if Israel unintentionally inflicts civilian casualties when it defends itself from terrorist attacks.

    • Regina

      I agree!

  • joya

    Larry, I am totally stunned at your post here. You of course, have the right to express yourself as the moderator of this website but I would never have expected those words from your mouth, showing a clear lack of understanding of what is the truth in Israel. Sadly enough, it sounds like something that would come from the pen of a left wing anti semite who doesn’t think Israel has the right to defend herself from rocket fire!
    Israelies have been living under this terror for years now and finally they are taking action and I say BRAVO to them and shame on Larry Johnson and those who agree with his shameful words!
    I think I have to leave this website now – sad, because I have been here for over a year but I cannot even feel the same about Larry and those who are applauding his anti semitisim and Israel hatred!
    Sure gives the Israel haters plenty of comfort and support and a grand chance to lash out at this tiny country fighting for it’s existance!

    • Zeke

      Joya,
      Leaving will never change anyone’s mind… others agree with you, that’s why you gotta try to read the whole thread.
      peace, or an enforceable alternative..
      :)

      • James

        Wow. Someone critiques Israeli foreign policy and he’s accused of anti-Semetism.

        • Strawberrybitch

          Yup…much like we’re all racists if we question Barky.

          • Thinker

            Exactly.

            Well, I guess in my case, I’m considered an “Uncle Tom.”

  • Ks Girl

    All I have to say is that if any enemy were to shoot one bomb at the United States and it did not physically harm a soul, I would expect the United States to immediately protect my family and me and all families in the United States and not wait 6 months to do it.

    Can you imagine the mental anguish that would cause to have rockets flying by daily for 6 months? I would imagine that can be just as harmful, if not, worse, than physical anguish.

    I hope we never have to find out…

    • TeakWoodKite

      I would expect the United States to immediately protect my family and me and all families in the United States and not wait 6 months to do it.

      Ks Girl, Can you Say New Orleans and Katrina? I would never ‘expect’ our government to protect us.

      Look what is going on on the Arizona and Texas border at the moment?

      • workingclass artist

        interesting point Teak…although the latest stats have migration down to a combination of factors. IMHO…What is happening at the border esp. over in Mexico is a travesty…Too many deaths.
        Blaming the US Govt. is too simple….alas…Short of invading Mexico to combat the drug cartels who are infiltrating the Mexican Govt. at high levels ( which still operates under an arcahic european class system ) what would be the solution?

  • DaddysDarlin

    Cowards like Hamas are always hiding in the middle of civilian neighborhoods, and unfortunately if they are allowed to stay in these neighborhoods they run the risk of civilian deaths during times of conflict.
    I think the people of Israel have the right to defend themselves, just like the Americans did when they invaded Iraq right?
    Instead of their troops traveling thousands of miles, they can defend their country right where they are.
    The Palestinians refused to sign a cease-fire, and now that the people of Israel are defending themselves, they are having a problem with it.
    Remember they refused to abide by the cease fire, not Israel. How can we as Americans invade a country that did no harm to us, it was Iran who bombed our country not Iraq, and then try to pass judgement on Israel?
    Obama wants to completely wipe Israel off the map, it will be very interesting to see how he goes about doing that. I think the Jewish people in our country and across the world, not to mention other denominations, will stand up in favor of Israel and its people.
    We do not have a right to invade a country that has done nothing to us, yet we did, Israel is being bombed by Palestine and they certainly have every right to defend their country and its people.

  • Zeke

    Off Topic… sorry
    I just wanted to say Hi to all and that its nice to have A WORKING INTERNET for the first time in two weeks or so.
    So, to all who thought me gone for good… no such luck

    That goes for you too Larry, buddy!
    Lets all remember to play well with others…
    The third week of January is not far off and the common enemy still exists as sure a threat as he was before, so:
    “We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately. ”
    Benjamin Franklin

    • TeakWoodKite

      Zeke best tot and yours in the coming new year.

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  • Peggy Sue

    I’m sorry. I have no sympathy for Hamas, Hezbollah or any of these terrorist groups who are willing to use their own people as shields for their political ends. Israel is surrounded by sharks, people whose main weapon is terror, to throw the enemy [Israel] into a constant, unrelieved state of eminent danger and horror.

    And it’s working.

    They’re like a pack of jackels, stalking, howling, trying to take individual members of the herd down and create absolute panic.

    Do I sympathize with the Gaza residents–the mothers, the fathers, the children and the elderly?

    Yes.

    But until those very citizens and/or real leaders can inject reason into the equation, this blood-letting will continue. Moderate Muslims? I keep hearing about them but where the hell are they?

    Let’s get real. If the US was being bombed day after day after day, what would the response be? Forget it! We saw what happened after 9/11. People were demanding blood, big time blood, oceans of blood.

    It’s real easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize. But if my mother and father had been blown to bits? My children had been maimed? My peace of mind completely destroyed?

    I’d have revenge in my heart, too. I’d want the same thing.

    It’s a vicious cycle and nobody wins. Not the Palestinians. Not the Israelis. Neither West nor east. No one.

    It’s as if we were all caught in this gigantic whirlpool, being sucked down with each and every event.

    The question is: how do you negotiate with fanatics? How?

    Anyone who comes up with that answer truly deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.

    • Strawberrybitch

      So why didn’t you stop Bush from invading Iraq? According to your own logic, you have the blood of tens of thousands of Iraqis on your hands. Blaming the average Palestinian for the actions of terrorist groups (not their government who begged for Hamas to not break the cease fire See the videos below) is just plain cold blooded. PS It looks like Obama is siding with Israel. Where are all the moderate Muslems? Hiding in their homes hoping not to offend the nut jobs in Hamas who would just as soon behead them as use them as human shields. Not to mention avoiding Israeli attacks since they can’t afford bombshelters or food, clean water, medicine, electricity, fuel. Go ahead call me anti-semetic, Obots already call me racist…and Bushbots call me terrorist sympathizer and racists call me n-lover…I must be doing something right.

      • Peggy Sue

        You could say the same thing about the frightened, terrorized Germans who:

        “hid in their homes hoping not to offend the nut jobs in Hamas [Hitler's Nazi regime] who would just as soon behead them [gas,hang,torture] or use them as human shields”

        Do we give the Germans slack for the horror their own nut jobs inflicted on Jews, political opponents, gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled, the elderly, or any other undesireable?

        Don’t think so.

        There are huge numbers of Muslims outside the Gaza strip who say the violence is awful but give a passive nod to these terrorist groups, make excuse after lame excuse to “explain” their wretched behavior. Where is their humanity for their own?

        And btw, I’m not calling anyone anti-semetic or any other ugly name. There’s plenty of blame to spread around. But could’a, would’a, should’a doesn’t solve a damn thing.

        Until the “moderate Muslims” step up to the plate, this blood-letting game will go on and on and on. This mess is in their own house.

        As for the fanatics? You try to reason with a gun or a bomb, you’re dead or on an endless, bloody carousel. Which is exactly where we’re at.

      • Peggy Sue

        Strawberry B:

        You could say the same thing about the frightened, terrorized Germans who:

        “hid in their homes hoping not to offend the nut jobs in Hamas [Hitler's Nazi regime] who would just as soon behead them [gas,hang,torture] or use them as human shields [lampshades].”

        Do we give the Germans slack for the horror their own nut jobs inflicted on Jews, political opponents, gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled, the elderly, or any other undesireable?

        Don’t think so.

        There are huge numbers of Muslims outside the Gaza strip who say the violence is awful but give a passive nod to these terrorist groups, make excuse after lame excuse to “explain” their wretched behavior. Where is their humanity for their own?

        And btw, I’m not calling anyone anti-semetic or any other ugly name. There’s plenty of blame to spread around. But could’a, would’a, should’a doesn’t solve a damn thing.

        Until the “moderate Muslims” step up to the plate, this blood-letting game will go on and on and on. This mess is in their own house.

        As for the fanatics? You try to reason with a gun or a bomb, you’re dead or on an endless, bloody carousel. Which is exactly where we’re at.

      • Peggy Sue

        I’m not blaming the “average” Palestinian, SB. But there are vast numbers of Muslims outside the Gaza strip who say the violence is awful but give a passive nod to the terrorists and every anti-American, anti-Israel slogan. I am completely disgusted with the endless litany of excuses used to defend every savage act and utterance from maniacs.

        In any case, you could say the same thing about the frightened, terrorized Germans who:

        “hid in their homes hoping not to offend the nut jobs in Hamas [Hitler's Nazi regime] who would just as soon behead them [gas,hang,torture] or use them as human shields [or lampshades].”

        Do we give the German population slack for the horror their own nut jobs inflicted on Jews, political opponents, gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled, the elderly, or any other undesireable?

        Don’t think so.

        And btw, I’m not calling anyone anti-semetic or any other ugly name. There’s plenty of blame to spread around. But could’a, would’a, should’a doesn’t solve a damn thing.

        Until the “moderate Muslims” step up to the plate, this blood-letting game will go on and on and on. This mess is in their own house.

        As for the fanatics? You try to reason with a gun or a bomb, you’re dead or on an endless, bloody carousel. Which is exactly where we’re at right now.

    • TeakwoodKite

      how do you negotiate with fanatics?

      you don’t.

      • Peggy Sue

        I agree, Teakwood.

      • Ferd Berfle

        Exactly.

  • Hot Librarian

    Larry -I find little to disagree with your post here.
    Cheers

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  • ford

    Larry, I am a big fan of your site, but I disagree with you on your position concerning Israel.

    I think you are underestimating Hamas, and I find it difficult to believe that you think this is a bunch of “morons”….they are Muslim extremists. The Palestinian problem is not just Israel’s to solve. It is a regional problem..nobody wants them.
    When the Palestinians send Arafat and Hamas to do their bargaining what do you think is going to happen?? Oh,we gave Arafat a Nobel Peace Prize for screwing up the process, as well. We reward bad behavior, and now blame Israel for everything? Please.
    The notion the you run a conflict by only doing to your enemy a response in proportion to you hits, is no way to win a war. When you go to war, you go to war to win. Read more Patton or other leaders of military conflict,, and you will see that a solution is possible only if there is a clear victory , then a reconstruction period.

    Wars that have a resolution require a winner, who sets the tone for how the reorganization will occur.
    The UN set up Israel, and now will not support the decisions, setting up Israel to bare the burden of the “original sin” against the Palestinians. Israel exists today, only because it has defended itself, otherwise it would already have been crushed.
    Wake up.

  • dani

    Larry – I’m always grateful for your site and come here at least once a day to get the straight scoop but I have to say that I’m a little disappointed in your synopsis of the events thus far. You version mimicks the MSM “reporting” on this.

    Nobody is perfect in war and calling Isreal’s military response “bullshit” and calling their efforts “thuggish” is off the mark – IMO.

  • Gina

    LDW,Dani, ford and all others who have a better grasp on this situation than Mr. Johnson:

    I second your responses and am also disappointed in Mr. Johnson’s remarks.

    I would not mistake you for a bigot, Mr. Johnson, but your comments are close to the line.

  • http://hypocalypse.com abraham

    Yeah, whatever, Larry. You’re the one that feverishly supported one of Israel’s most loyal lapdogs during the election. Why the sudden sympathy for the Palestinians? Don’t you stand behind your favored candidate and her policies? If so, you should be parroting the propaganda coming from the Israelis.

    As for the zionist sympathizers in your comments section: may your God raze your homes, kill your children, and end your life in a blaze of hellfire. It would be too good an end for you.

  • Chris

    Can someone explain why Israel has a right to defend itself.
    Would a hypthetical invader and occupier of YOUR home have that right after they had killed your children, humiliated you and thrown you and the remains of your family into the street. Would you accept it meekly as it was endorsed by a distant town council. Not me I’d take revenge. Its human nature, even the Christianfascists (Western equivalent of Islamofascists) would understand an eye for an eye.
    Try putting yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian. Zionists have always resorted to terrorism to enable their missions beginning prior to their bombing of the King David Hotel and the USS Liberty attack.
    One State without apartheid is the only just way. For too long zionists have brought misery not only to Palestinians but to Jews, Americans and much of the Middle East. To link them with the Holocaust survivors is an insult. They are employing the very same Nazi methods of collective punishment, brutality and war crimes against civilians, all with the financial and political support of the US. Ever wonder why the US has become a target for hate and terrorism?
    Grasp reality folks what would you do if you were a Palestinian locked in a cage without work, food, sanitation, electricity, inadequate medical and educational facilities seeing your children abused or the children seeing their parents humiliated?
    For me I’d be targetting those who brought my family its misery….the Israelis and the US.
    The majority of Israelis and Americans I’m sure will understand but the morally bankrupt amongst them will never understand , they can’t grasp the concept of right and wrong and the rights of others, only their own greed and self satisfaction.

  • http://hypocalypse.com abraham

    Geez, Larry, you’re such a douche. In that second video, I don’t see a “terrorist”. I see someone fighting an occupation of his homeland. And I guess you are implying that he was taken out by counter-insurgency fire? Looks like a weapon malfunction to me.

    Geez, dude, is this a blog or a gateway to Amazon.com’s product catalog?

  • http://360.yahoo.com/ommotherlifeforce fred heidrick

    what do you expect them to in the gaza concentration camp not defend them selves. im sure if the jews had morters in the old days they would have mortered the natzies.

  • Nadine

    Man, are you ever misinformed.
    Hamas has always used the palestinian civilians as shields, firing rockets into Israel from schools, mosques, and hospitals which is why civilian casualties occur when Israel finally retaliates. Then, when children are killed, they can bombard the media with these images and make Israel look bad to the rest of the world, and to gullible people like you. It’s such a sham! They would have you believe that they actually care about children, yet they are happy when their own children blow themselves up as suicide bombers killing scores of innocents in schools and in buses or cafes in Israel! You have NO idea what is going on there. How would you like to raise your children with mortar shells raining onto your head daily? Or fearing suicide attacks when you go shopping?
    Israel has suffered with 11,000 + rockets in 8 years and done nothing until now. Israel is the size of New Jersey, yet she has had to constantly fight for her right to exist for 60 years now. Israel only wants peace. You shouldn’t judge them without first stepping into their shoes.

  • Asi Dar

    The real way to stop the suffer of the Palestinian people

    This article was originally a response to a petition that calls United States to put pressure on Israel to end the violence in Gaza.

    The reality in Gaza is unacceptable!!! No doubt! But if you really care for the Palestinian people, if you want a resolution of the situation, you shouldn’t twist the facts like you do and change your concept. Who do you blame for this catastrophe? To remind you, there is a terror organization called Hamas. He was elected by the Palestinians to the government. The Hamas declares that he doesn’t want peace and his goal is to exterminate Israel (he says it clearly). On the other side there is Israel, which is stronger but is willing to do peace and supports the establishment of Palestinian country at the occupied territories and understands that other compromises should be made as well from her side. Israel has only one demand- stop the terror, for ever! That is exactly what the Hamas (with the support of Iran and other “friends” of the Palestinians) is reluctant to do. The leaders of the Hamas said recently that “even if we will have to die, we wouldn’t stop fighting Israel”. Last weeks (as most of the last 7 years) the Hamas was attacking the Israeli civilian population on a daily basis. Israel asked the international help to stop it while explaining that she wouldn’t be able to tolerate it for much longer and she doesn’t want to be dragged into an extensive military action which will cost a lot of human life (where have you been then??). Hamas declined all attempts to stop those attacks. About the siege, it wasn’t from the beginning and it could be easily removed if the Hamas would just reduce his terror activity. Now, hypothetically, lets say that the hamas (and generally the Palestinians) neglects terror, establishment of free, open Palestinian country that communicates with Israel and the rest of the world will be a matter of few months. The end of the conflict and prosperity can be easily achieved, few square meter of land to this or other side is not the issue. Only one condition- stop terror, for ever. No more killing and suffer, people will be able to feed their family, no more 14 years old children with machine guns or explosive belt.
    You can’t expect that Israel will accept daily terror. The claim that Israel is acting not proportionally- imagine that your child is being bombed every day when he goes to kindergarten, for the last few years. What would be your “proportional” response when you fill that all other means where failed to stop it?! Israel was dragged to that military action that she was unwilling to take.
    For me all people are even. I don’t want to see death or suffer of any side. The conflict in the Middle East should come to an end.
    The real enemy of the civil population is the terror, not Israel, not US.
    Hamas and other fundamentalists are more interested in terror than in the life of their people. They don’t fight for the people; they fight for the fundamentalism and hate. All the horrible things that happen are the consequence of terror; Israel has no interest to strick civil population, the opposite it is against her interests and moral. The hamas is the one that uses schools, hospitals and houses as humen shield for their terror. When you judge the events, please ask your self not only what happen but also why it happen. But, the most important question is “how to stop it?”. The answer is to stop terror, make the hamas understand that peace and mutuality between two separate countries are the only solution. Alternatively, make the Palestinians to understand that the terror is not the way and they could get much better life if they would give up this way and try to maintain peace and normalization. They will have to switch the hamas to a more moderate leadership.
    If you want to help the people in Gaza you have to stop terror. It is easy to fall into the fails concept of “strong bad” Israel killing the “weak poor” Palestinians, just remember that the Palestinians have the key for the solution, they can have peace and a country of there own, they just have to stop terror Israel. Asking from Israel to tolerate the terror is really not the solution….

  • Asi Dar

    I don’t mean to be rood, but the things that are mentioned above are absolutely bullshit!!! Few points: Israel has no interest to heart civil population, the opposite, it is against her moral as well against her interest. Every time that civil population being heart, the international pressure on Israel is increased and limits her action. I m quit sure that the author of the text above knows nothing about military actions in populated area. The ability of the air force is very limited and the “pinpoint” actions are effective in very small occasions.

  • Samy

    I am European( belgian, living in London.
    I can’t stand the stupidity of some people sayin that the reason why the USA are hated by arab-muslim countries is because of Israel….what the F”"”" does it mean. Israel has always supported the USA everytime it was needed e.g Iran, Iraq,…Some people have to understand that muslim extremists hate the USA because of extreme american values (occidental value but not like in Europe) completly opposed to theirs own values such as the Koran’s values, Sharia….There is a civilazation shock and the USA represent in islamist eyes the other extreme … that’s the main reason of their hate of USA

    Concerning the conflict, IDF during an operation has found documents of Hamas concerning weapons(all kind) stocks and tunnels location in highly populated areas such as building ,UN school, mosque…p.s This document was posted on the website of Israeli embassy in France

    Israeli obstrategy for bombing(see the videos)first is to avoid theloss of soldiers in Urban fight which are difficult to control in Gaza ( as USA expereince in IRAQ, or soldier in afghanistan can experience).

    Some people have to read and to know about the conflict before to react emotionally…Remember rationality prevail.

    Shame on Chavez and its connection with Hezbollah,shame on Hamas using civilian as shelter , shame on dumbasses demonstrating against Israel claiming they fihgt for peace cos they only care about palestinian victims which seem to be more important than israeli one… demonstrating for peace while screaming “death to the jews”, “jEws back in oven”, “Heil Hitler” and supporting an official terrorist organisation… Nowadays, this is called a “peaceful demonstration” (just check on youtube pro-palestinian demonstrations in LA or San Fransisco, milan, Brussel, Paris, Nice? Marseille, copenhague, Oslo)

    I pray for a peace between palestinians and Israelis without stupid extremists in the street and among gazoui citizens.

  • workingclass artist

    Oh Brother!…Sheeesh! ( eyes rolling here )

  • Ellen D

    WOW – such hatred from Mike! I read Larry as the knowledgeable diary of a professional but Mike??? Please go away!

  • FembotsForObama

    Mike,

    If you are saying that the Jews are the real Devil in the world, then you clearly aren’t reading your Bible but something else.

    It is all too clear that whatever role the Jews had or have now, it is ordained by God as part of his plan. Stop blaming Jews for things of the past with weird arguments.

    Even Soros, who I would argue is one of the most Evil people on the planet right now because of his utter lack of remorse for what he did to his own people during the Nazi occupation of Hungary … was a result of WAR, not because of his intrinsic ethnicity or religious/cultural background.

    Larry is talking about the here and now. Perhaps you should do the same.

    I somewhat agree with Larry. I certainly believe that Jews in Israel have a right to defend themselves, but somehow the disproportion of the number of Palestinians killed versus the Jews in this latest aggression just doesn’t seem right to me. There has to be a more effective way for Jews to maintain their security.

    And, I agree with Andy Martin that this latest “response” by Israel is more of an attack by surrogate on Obama. Where is HIS response to this anyway?

  • Margo Lane

    (Twilight Zone music)… :roll:

  • Kevin

    And the nomination for whackiest end of year post goes to Mike!!!!!

  • mike

    I didnt say one word of hate to you or to anybody else. If the truth is hate then I guess that would be hateful. It takes a big man to admit the truth but a coward sits in the field like a cow grazing all day until he is so fat where he is taken to the slaughter house. I am not a ZOMBIE of thise Elitist media or of these fake religions out of Africa, meaning Christianity, Islam and Judais. You need to wake up and quit being fooled by these slick talkers with all of their VOODOO. Just like Capital means Money and capitalism means the love of money. Does that make me hate the United States for speaking the truth. Isn’t the truth quite evident with the economy. You go ahead and ignore the truth but I know the truth.

  • workingclass artist

    Hmmmm….Larry offers the insights of a professional with the experience and knowledge to back it up…an even when I don’t agree he successfully provokes careful consideration…and dialog.
    Mike is just a RUBE…A YAHOO! in the classic definition invented by SWIFT….

  • stodgie

    the truth mike? your verison is pretty one sided in my view but hey think whatever pleases you. i am sure you can post here as long as larry accepts it.

  • jvsp

    No, Mike, when you state the following,

    “You need to see who the real devil in the world is. Start off with the Star of David with that 666. Look at the six pointed flag with six points, then look at the six small triangles and then keep looking at the small traingles but expand your vision and you will now see six big triangles representing 666 the sign of the DEVIL.”

    you at the very least “imply” that Jews are of the “Devil”.

    There is a conference in Iran that would probably welcome you. Try catching a ride with David Duke.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Obama. Where is HIS response to this anyway?
    One president at a time. (yeah I know)

    @Mike: seek help, ASAP.

  • mike

    Man you are giving me the Jesus complex by your responses. You have so much love for being good Christains, Muslims and Jews. You guys and gals are real demon strators. These are typical resonses of people that have been brainwashed and dont want to know the truth. Instead of investigating the truth they would rather stick their head in that little black book full of curses I mean verses. Oh by the way 666 is also CARBON. 6 protons 6 neutrons and 6 electrons. Why dont you go and see that this Carbon is petroleum in the ground and when its burned it releases hell fire, mercury, lead and acid rain. All of these plastic products you are using comes from that petroleum. I guess you want to go home now and I am sure Jesus will open the door since he has the key to the bottomless pit. By the way why would you be given the key like a hero. Just like Mohammad coming up from the Hellfire according to the Koran. Hey smart people how about your war in Iraq that was fought for Saudiarmco. Why dont you google that and see the marriage made in Hell “666″ between Saudi Arabia and the United States. Oh yea they just celebrated their 70th anniversary. You need to get professional help and I have the books to educate you so you can get A Masters Degree direct from the man u facturer who is the only one allowed to give you that accredited degree with an eteranl lifetime warranty.

  • mike

    how can you know what to do in the future if you dont know what happened in the past. How soon by Black jewish friends forget that it was them that went into Palestine in the name of their ancient fertility god and kicked out all of the Palestinians based on these arguments from the past that God gave them the land. You forgot that the Israelis were terrorist that through the Palestinians out of their own country, their houses, their businesses and their land and changed the name of the country to Israel. Is not that in the here and now because of what they did in the past. How about having to be coralled up 3 million strong like cattle in a small area of land cutoff from the outside world by Egypt and israel. How about having to have a transit visa inside your own country. Is this right? Israel is a hypocrite because they speak of togetherness in this country which is a lie and in their own country they separate people by race and ethnicity although both of them are the exact same peoples and you call me a hatemonger. You go in and bulldoze peoples houses even though they did nothing because of something their children did. Is that democractic is that right. No the Jews in America are holier than now, better than everyone else but at the same time they are victims. Trying living in conditions of squalor for 40 or 50 years with the Israelis controlling your every move as you have no work no food or money to take care of your family and then you see all of the Jews living the good life on the land that was once yours. Then you wonder why people strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up. As long as it isnt happeing to you its okay.

  • Jillie

    do you have a problem with the number ’23′, too?

    i am asking larry, why do you allow such sick, disturbed comments here?

    if this continues, you can count me as a former nq supporter.

  • It’s Not Me

    Yes, yes. yes….we know that all the ills of the entire world are because of the JEWS! Now, move along and go play with your soul mates…David Duke and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. We understand. We Jews are the evil ones. GOT IT. I’m so glad you made it clear and REALLY….it’s good to know that you’re no racist or bigot! I believe you! NOT! Now, back to David Duke University for your next semester…. Geezus.

  • mary

    Mike

    Why is it that, invariably, all of your extremist religious conspiratorial bilderbergish nonsense tend to write at length in such huge paragraphs. They never sum up. Please go sell conspiracy, religion ‘far out theories’ to your local pastor. Or call up JEREMIAH WRIGHT. He’d be glad to have you join Trinity. Also, give a call to Warren’s Saddleback. You’d fit in either. Good luck and drink some calming green tea…

  • jehovah

    Mike, Jehovah’s Witnesses are calling…go answer the door and give ‘em a piece of your…mind(?)

  • NCgirl

    Mike, you have SERIOUS problem. Nobody wants to hear your brand of racism and antisemitism. It truly pisses me off that you responded to my comment with this garbage.

  • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

    Enough of the pity party. Please show me where I claimed or intimated that the “ills of the worlds are because of the JEWS!!??” I don’t blame anything on “jews.” I do, however, insist that Israel does itself a grave disservice by killing Palestinian children with the armaments they are employing against targets in Gaza.

    Let’s keep the focus on what Hamas is doing and what Israel is doing. So far, only 10 Israelis have died because of Hamas rocket and mortar attacks. Over 300 Palestinians have died. What does that tell you?

  • Marley

    I do not think anyone said that YOU said that the ills of the world are on the Jewish people. The response was to “666 Mike.”

    I find it ironic that the rest of the world aligned with Palestine does so little to help with its infrastructure. I think they enjoy Palestine as a symbol oppression by Israel. After 60 years, Palestine still seems to rely too much on Israel for resources and jobs.

    Yes, my head is up my ass so no need to tell me off.

  • It’s Not Me

    That post was a response to “mike” not you, Larry.

  • It’s Not Me

    So far, only 10 Israelis have died because of Hamas rocket and mortar attacks. Over 300 Palestinians have died. What does that tell you?

    That tells me that the Israelis have bomb shelters in every community and most homes…supplied with gas masks by the government. WHY do they have bomb shelters in every community and most homes? I don’t think it’s just a new fad. Perhaps it’s because Israel has put up with this crap FOREVER? They have learned how to preserve Israeli lives when the homicide bombers and murderous rocket launchers rear their ugly heads. Now we blame them for LIVING? How dare they.

  • orwelllives

    How many Iraqis compared to American died in Iraq?

  • WildChild

    Considering Israel is the supreme governing authority over the west bank and gaza is would be difficult for the world to just step in a start building things. The Isreali’s might have a problem with the Palestinians living many steps above animal.