Comments on: (Open Thread and Apologies) Wounded Knee – 12/29/1890 – America’s Low Point

By: Ferd Berfle

Ferd Berfle — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:12:18 +0000

I find it somewhat ironic that some who post here at NQ and have such trouble with the Israelis and their possession of land that wasn’t the Israelis to begin with, seem to have no problem living on land that wasn’t truly theirs to begin with, either. Immigrant Americans, (which includes everyone but those native to this continent) of all people, should know better than to lecture others on the issue of land and its ownership.

By: Ferd Berfle

Ferd Berfle — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:02:39 +0000

They did not hand out small-pox laden blankets to their enemies, though.

By: Patrick Henry

Patrick Henry — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:50:32 +0000

New Hampster…If Susan can arrange for us to email each other..I would be honored to Share it with You…Thanks for asking…

By: NewHampster

NewHampster — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:32:15 +0000

I am honored to make your acquaintance.

By: NewHampster

NewHampster — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:30:47 +0000

I’d love to read your poem. In fact I’d love to post it on my site or Susan may want it here.

By: RedDragon62

RedDragon62 — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:31:57 +0000

I came across a woman in Walmart the other day. She asked me what “Tribe” I was from. When I responded that I was an Apache, She looked at me kind of funny. I asked her what was wrong and she said….

I thought we killed all of you way back when!

She didn’t mean it in a bad way. She was just surprised that she “Actually” met one!

Will we say the same about others if we allow some in our world to “Wipe em out?”

By: Patrick Henry

Patrick Henry — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:04:33 +0000

I agree Bert..

Thank you New Hampster for this reminder..I think its appropiate at this time for such Comparsons and reality checks..

thats why…I Appreciate No Quarter so much and like to read the Articles and threads here…and the Input is always very interesting no matter How One feels or thinks…Larry, susan and so many others know how to Stimulate Deep Thought and emotions and bring them to the surface for Debate..

I suppose some can justify what the IDF is doing..No matter how extreme..the Over kill is..or the elemination of the State of Palestine..Long ago after the “Civilized” world was Compassionate enough to help the Jews create a “State of Israel”..in 1948..

It didn’t take long for them to start acting Like the Pony Soldiers New hampster referred to and Start thier Military Operations (Terrorism) and look at all others as “INFERIOR”..

I Love the American indian culture..I attend Pow Wows and see great beauty in Them..and In the Indian religious beliefs too..
I was once responsible for organizing a Tribal Police Force…as a white Man…I was treated with distrust and dislike..

When I got the department organized..and established..I confronted the American indian Movement members on that reservation..in a Fair and balanced way…Just with the intent of Avoiding More Blood shed on Tribal lands aand more Attempts at Hatred and Distrust on Both sides..

When i left there…I had never Shot, wounded, or Abused one native american..

I had What were once Hostile Native americans who Covered my Back and looked out for me..and protected me..

I had an wonderful old indian Woman..everyone called ‘Granny’
as a dear Friend and Counselor..before i left She called me into her Home, not more than a Shack…and showed me her teasured items she had layed out on a bed…All Indian Crafted items..

She told me to pick out two of them..

One was a cead Canoe Paddle, hand carved…with beautiful paintings of Orcas, Buffalo, Deer prints etc on both sides..

Granny alway liked to say…”I Paddle my own canoe..” and would laugh..She was wonderul and Charming..and Told good Storys..
Being old…she told me she had Danced with HENRY FORD when he came to the reservation many decades ago..

The Olther Item was a Cedar plank..hand Carved and painted…Featuring the American Bald eagle in the Center…

The same beautiful bald Eagle The United states Government Displays also..

I Loved Granny..She died shortly after that…Writing this bringsTears to my eyes now..

Another Indian..a full blooded Sioux ..gave me an Indian Spear wirth eagle feathers hand tied with leather..it used to hang over his bed..

he gave it to mebecause i gave him a Gas Power Mower he neded..

thats the Indian Way..

because of my Experiences ..I wrote a Long poem about my feelings toward the native American indians..called “I AM YOUR BROTHER”

I realized that ALL Human beings are brothers and sisters..created by The Great Father..and helped by the same Great Spirit..

and that we should learn to love One another..

By: SN in MN

SN in MN — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:03:42 +0000

Torture was commonly inflicted on captives by many Indian tribes as part of victory rituals. There are few innocents.

By: stodgie

stodgie — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:52:28 +0000

thanks bert! i truly love no quarter but lately the unending criticism while well founded begins to grate. the media doesn’t help. they focus on something to the point of nausea. i get emails from people trying to me some system based on “marketing concept of the end of times” however if you follow their advice, you’ll be just fine.

you can go overboard in your criticisms. the far left is very much like that and they turn me off big time. the far right did that to clinton and anything else they felt attacking would help them. see what i mean. it gets to the glazed eyes department.

i love the speech from fdr where he speaks to fear. that is one of the major problems here. if we wallow in these endless end times drama, we won’t have the will or energy to do anything positive. well to be further honest here it reminds in some ways of rev wright and his attacks. enough already! i agree with the concerns and need to change and so forth. most of us are trying to make ends meet period. so the endless list of wrong we’ve done and all those who feel we should make amends is not at the top of americans’ list these days. they want hope, positive thoughts, and a way to get out of this mess and not wallow in it.

By: JozefAL

JozefAL — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:02:46 +0000

Well, Northwest, your family needs to change THEIR political persuasion. The Wounded Knee massacre took place during Benjamin Harrison’s term, and Harrison was a REPUBLICAN.
Incidentally, Jackson only became a “Democrat” late in his Presidency. When first elected, his party was the Democratic-Republican Party, and many within the party used the names “Democrat” and “Republican” alternately.
Jackson’s opponents referred to themselves as “National Republicans” but most were nothing more than anti-Jackson Democrat-Republicans and Federalists, and these opponents would go on to form the base of the Whig Party. (I’ll also point out that some of Jackson’s opposition were Southerners who supported the same “States’ Rights” position that would go on to be a hallmark of the pro-slavery movement a little more than a decade after the Whig Party formed. Also, the Whigs included many members of the Anti-Masonic Party, a group that formed because of an irrational fear of Freemasons.) The Republican Party, as we now know it, only came into being 17 years after Jackson left office (and nearly a decade after Jackson died), and had little real connection with the “National Republican Party” that formed in opposition to Jackson.
Jackson undoubtedly had many issues that made him a poor President (or even a poor politician) but he was NOT the only American of the era who supported policies that were adverse to the Native American peoples. In fact, John Quincy Adams even noted in 1826 that “The Indians are not worth going to war over”. Somewhat interestingly, in 1832, the US Supreme Court decided that only the Federal gov’t, and not state governments, had any authority to issue laws over the Indian nations but Jackson refused to step in because he was already having trouble with proponents of states’ rights (such as HIS political opponents) following the “nullification crisis” and didn’t want to further antagonize them.
Again, your family’s support of the GOP is based on flawed and faulty reasoning (much like the support offered to Obama by “progressives” over the past 18 months or so).

By: Sonic Ninja Kitty

Sonic Ninja Kitty — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:20:53 +0000

Interesting points, interesting post. I agree that we must seek out truth in history.

With complete due respect, what ‘is’ recognition? Is it putting out books, movies, changing school curriculum, or is it formal declarations or legislation? They all have their own repercussions; the trick is to inform without inflaming.

Example: The Armenian question. (During WWI, Armenians were forced to relocate by Turks, many people were killed. A lobby in the US is trying to get recognition of the events officiated by the US Congress.) No, I am NOT going to take sides, here, I just want to illustrate a point about putting things like this into official documents. You can research this question from both sides. What good is wrought by inflaming one side or the other with Congressional recognition now? To me, it has devolved from a matter of finding truth to a matter of money on one side and keeping an ally happy on the other. It’s no longer about the issue itself.

Another example we all know is complex: Israel and Palestine. Some people dedicate their entire life’s work to this one (and still can’t solve it). What’s the ‘right’ mix of history, respect for faiths, and preset-day logistics and events? It will never be agreed upon. Someone has to force their side on the other.

Then you get into the whole problem of reparations. As time goes on, this concept quickly becomes impossible to fairly implement. Do you give the same reparations to the African American doctors, lawyers, CEOs as you do to the unemployed? Many times, these calls for recognition/reparations are led by a desire for vengeance motivated by current wrongs.

So, how do we properly face our history without being led by present emotions?

By: bert

bert — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:46:42 +0000

stodgie, I agree with you. We need to recognize both the good and the bad. We are all, after all, fallen angels. Humans are imperfect and fallible beings. And that fact was well recognized by our Founding Fathers as they crafted America’s governing documents.

We must acknowledge our wrongs, make amends, while still celebrating what is good about us and try not to err again.

By: DawnelleTIREDofSPIN

DawnelleTIREDofSPIN — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:45:59 +0000

We’ll call it

Thoughtful Thursdays!

lol

it’s hard to dig for gold but I will try for now

hmm

ok let’s see, MOST of America is just trying to pay the bills and maybe have some free time to enjoy their meager earnings with their family and/or friends!

Not out looking to bomb someone

thankfully
not YET

ok bad ending

sorry

By: bert

bert — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:39:37 +0000

Well said, BernieO. Very well said!

By: stodgie

stodgie — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:29:21 +0000

i am a former history teacher and feel we also need an even handed approach. the trail of tears, wounded knee all need to be taught.

the one thing that is really starting to bother me here is the unending views of all that is wrong with america. the cries of “it’s all over” “we are a bunch of asses” “we are bullies” “we are horrible” “it will never get better” “we are going to implode”.

let’s try for an more even handed approach and talk about the good we also do and how good the average american really is as well.

ok!