Its amazing to me still how stupid our smart species can be and then funnier still that they can throw their projected character on you and convince themselves it fits.

Well Mabe, I’ve got no leader. I’m an anarchist who could care less about authority and about “leaders”. I don’t have to have a “leader” to determine that you are simply a gadfly punkass who hasn’t a lick of sense about ya.

Whats funny is you think YOU’VE broken out of the confines of the “authoritarian propaganda mirrors” and yet thats all you talked about.

Be free, and get back on ya meds, you’ve got such potential.

What I believe is that there was major criminal INactivity. The Bush regime are guilty of failing to take any action whatsoever to prevent the attacks despite the fact that they had intelligence that should have prompted them to take the matter very seriously. Either they are guilty of criminal incompetence in failing to take the matter seriously, or, far worse, they intentionally turned a blind eye – what I call “malign neglect”. Either way they bear considerable culpability.

“while you feel you were not condescending to me, I still feel you were”

Bill, I was not even addressing you. I was not addressing anyone, in fact.

“Lastly please accept my apologies for getting personal.”

Accepted.

I believe we are beating a dead horse.

Let’s leave it at this.

I believe there was major criminal activity involved in what happened on 9/11 either through benign neglect, or complicity by the Bush Administraion.

I believe the 9/11 Commission Report was a sham that did not answer satisfactorily what really happened on 9/11 and whose sole purpose was to serve the Bush Administration’s need to cover up the criminal activity I mentioned above.

I believe that the “deepening mess in the world” (one of your earlier quotes) was caused by the events that happened on 9/11 will continue to get worse.

I believe getting worse means regardless of who wins the WH in 2008, the US will still be in IRAQ for many years to come, many more Iraqi’s and US soldiers will die, profits from the Iraqi oil will line the pockets of Big Oil, we will attack Iran, and our empire building train will roar down the tracks until it someday runs off a cliff.

(BTW, I will have long since gotten off that train and moved some where else in the world.)

I believe on the domestic front all the assaults on the constitution will either stay the same or get worse in the holy name of “national security” leading to more arrests and incarceration for those of us resisting these assaults. The growing economic turndown will get worse and turn into a real depression that will make the 1930′s look like a church picnic.

On a personal note while you feel you were not condescending to me, I still feel you were, and while I respect your opinion and your knowledge (no sarcasm I do not believe it would be productive for us to get in any kind of discussion on any subject.

Lastly please accept my apologies for getting personal.

1. I am sorry you read sarcasm and condescension in my remarks. I assure you that while I am quite capable of using sarcasm, none was intended in this case. I also intended no condescension. I was merely expressing my sincere and considered view about the “inside job” conspiracy theories.

2. How very interesting that you assume I have not looked into the body of “evidence” presented by the “inside job” enthusiasts and found it wanting. Do you really believe that this was the first time anyone has posted those links? Must we take the time to look at them again and again every time someone brings them up?

3. As far as I know, all I have done here is present a few reasoned arguments and did not engage in any shouting matches or name-calling. Therefore, kindly address your complaints about name calling and shouting matches to those to whom they apply.

4. I have heard the arguments and over and over again, and checked the evidence. In fact, I have a colleague at work who talks about it constantly. I do not find the arguments or the evidence convincing, and I find the constant harping on this subject to be counterproductive. That is my opinion, and I expressed it.

And how unfortunate that you have chosen to react to my expression of opinion, and my reasoned arguments by getting so personal.

The bottom line on this issue is that it is not a question of either accepting the official story, or believing that the Bush regime planned and executed the events of September 11. It is entirely possible to disbelieve both the official story AND the “inside job” conspiracy theory, and I believe that is where most of us here are on this question.

I believe that the Bush regime knew or should have known that there was an imminent threat of attack from bin Ladin’s group. I believe that at best they were criminally negligent in a number of ways. I believe that at worst they are guilty of allowing it to happen by the application of malign neglect. Either way a cover-up would be the expected reaction.

This post by me…

Comment by Bill Keyes | 2007-10-21 01:28:39…..

is in response to this quote by Shirin…

Comment by Shirin | 2007-10-20 12:53:08

You are of course are entitled to your opinions as to the events of 9/11.

But you have really stepped over the line with your sarcastic, condescending post above.

When Rob posted his original remarks he for sure, was very undiplomatic which to which I also I agreed. However most of you, instead at least saying “Rob, you’re an undiplomatic asshole, but just for the sake of discussion I will check what you have to say.”

But instead of checking out anything he had to say and by now probably me Cee or anybody else, all of you started in on him with both barrels and what little discussion ensued, quickly turned into a name calling shouting match.

So soon it became evident all of you were no more interested in checking his opinions then you are mine, CEE’s or others.

So now comes the great and all powerful and all knowing Shirin.

Being bored with all this conspiracy discussion, she has decided, not only are our opinions not worth her valuable time, but that we also need to be publicly trashed, chastised, ridiculed, called names, like silly and tiresome and scolded like little children and maybe hung. Except even the great and all powerful and all knowing Shirin wouldn’t hang children?

So, Shirin, the fact check queen, have you gone to any of the web sites that I suggested?

Of course not, anything that we or these nut-cakes say, would be waaaay beneath your vast knowledge of the entire world, no I take that back, the entire universe and of course, your strongest point, the entire history of man since the beginning of time.

OH BTW, thanks also for the compliment of comparing our “cherry picking” to that of the Bush Administration. At least we do something right in your eyes.

Now for the real fun…fact checking Shirin..

Quote Shirin…

“And it is a fact that by constantly harping and pushing your extreme, unlikely, and poorly supported notion, you are enabling those who want to silence any further serious debate on the Bush regime’s culpability.”

Really??

And where did you pull this fact, your above quote, out of, Madame Fact Check Queen? Can we please have the basis of your I’m-sure-thorough-investigative-conclusions?

Quote Shirin…

“Fascinatingly, you are guilty of the same type of faulty black and white, binary thinking that characterizes………”

Really?? We are guilty? In whose opinion….the court of Shirin?

Quote Shirin..

“It is entirely possible to reject all or some of the 9/11 Commission’s conclusions while also rejecting your desperate attempts to push your ill-supported, overly convoluted, unlikely-to-the-point-of-absurdity conspiracy theories.”

This is probably the most illogical statement I think I have ever read.

Let me get this straight. If “all or some of what the commission said can be rejected”, and all of ….”your/our ill-supported, overly convoluted, unlikely-to-the-point-of-absurdity conspiracy theories”, as well, then who knows the truth???

(Hits self in head) (Light bulb goes on).

Why the the great and all powerful and all knowing Shirin, of course!

On a personal note, Shirin I have tried to be a friend to you both here and off blog, but as the old saying goes, “when one has friends like you who needs enemies”.

I’m not sure what your problem is, but I finally figured out that not only think you know it all, you really aren’t interested in hearing anyone else’s opinion unless it agrees with your own.

Just what I was trying to say, only you said it so much more succinctly.

Was that you on Bill Maher’s show last night?

Forgery revealed, all anyone now remembers of the TANG career of George W Bush is that CBS tried to smear him with a ridiculously false set of memos purported to be the work of his superiors in the TANG.

And despite the fact that he was never seen in AL on base by anyone in his unit. Trudeau’s offer of a 10k reward for anyone who could prove that they served with Bush in AL was never claimed.
And 2nd Lt. Bush received a commission w/o attending OTC, OTS or ROTC. A former USAF intel officer said that as far as he recalled, that was reserved only for doctors – to qualify them as flight surgeons. Which to me was more of a story. But I don’t think most folks were interested in that.
Good analogy, CV
Not to mention it caused the real story - as you know, (which was to air the following week, still prior to the ’04 election) about the crudely forged Niger documents – to be canned. It also gave the freepers, redstaters, Malkin, Drudge and the rest of the rightwing whack job blogs credence. After all, they took down CBS, proved bias and underhandedness in the the liberal media conclusively. And all in one stroke. MSM still kowtows to those creeps.

It’s not too hard to make the case that Dubya was a lazy bugger who blew off a physical exam and was grounded, and then blew off his remaining months of service obligations altogether because he’d gotten bored with playing at being a jet jockey– Tooter Turtle or Jethro Bodine, you decide– but Rather & Co couldn’t resist an especially incriminating piece of evidence to buttress their case, provided by a especially zealous Bush detractor, despite the fact that it was a clumsy and obvious forgery.

You may recall that the White House, who was given an opportunity to rebut the content and the veracity of the docs, kept silent, and as we now know, must have rubbed their hands with glee in anticipation of their release.

Forgery revealed, all anyone now remembers of the TANG career of George W Bush is that CBS tried to smear him with a ridiculously false set of memos purported to be the work of his superiors in the TANG.

Similarly, the case that President DisasterMonkey was woefully unprepared for the events of 9/11, perhaps even criminally negligent in this regard, is being obscured by the loud and discordant background noise of these 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Serve the truth, and truth is well served. Serve unfounded speculation, and the truth is well fucked.

LOL! You are kidding me? Doesn’t that tell you something? We’ve seen a student tasered, a reverend forced to the floor as he waited to see Petraus and these guards couldn’t remove a 9-11 protestor? C’mon.