The Art of Counter-Terrorism

Larry Johnson:
I have a question that i think you could easily answer.
Remember after 9-11 a video came out of OBL and some one legged shiek bragging about how they planned and plotted the attack? Was that video deemed authentic by the CIA?
Thanks very much for your time and all the work you do for our country.
Regards,
the hoopster

I anxiously look forward to hearing it – I can’t access it now.

Terrorism, essentially, is an international police problem that should be managed through traditional law enforcement tools together with a bit of shoe-leather espionage and greater sensitivity to its cultural and political context.

This is long what I’ve thought of as the core issue on terrorism, mostly ignored by current government policy.

Suppose in a hypothetical parallel, our major U.S. cities of NY LA SF DC Chi-town Atlanta and others decided to solve gang problems using military methods like in Iraq. While the current methods of local police could use improvement (even in their own opinion), how much worse would the situation become if heavy munitions bombarded every crack house of any suspicion, and Blackwater blasted it’s way down the freeway to escort the mayor and city council members across town?

The likely result might be a lot like Iraq today, including an ethnic purge, followed by a sudden increase in the population of Canada.

The big mistake going into the current Iraq mess, was that too many in Congress thought authorizing a war on terrorism was meant somewhat metaphorically, like a “war” on crime; ignoring the position of others who knew all along that what was meant was full on multiple wars in multiple theaters, as spelled out in plain english in the PNAC neocon vision. An example was when Kerry excused his vote for the Iraq authorization by arguing he thought he was voting for limited military force as an inducement to Saddam to shape up.

Since much of Congress does not pay attention to reality, we are the ones who have to remind them.

Amen!!!!!!

ybnormal

I remember the Bush political gang poking fun at Kerry when he said this ” the war on terror was a police problem”.

I bet people are regreting not listening to the true substance of that comment instead of employing the knee jerk reactionary vision of the war on terror we have now.

“Kick ass and take names” is for the John Wayne movies, not foreign policy.

Leslie: I have a question on this thread for larry that never posted..is it in spam filter?
Thanks

I truly enjoyed the interview. I didn’t expect to stop what I was doing for this long to listen.

George posed all the right questions.
Larry, when I have more time, I’m going to post my points of disagreements with your answers.
We agree on much but at times I was ready to jump off this chair!!
Later today.

No, Hoopster, I didn’t see you in the spam filter. Try re-posting.

Dealing with terrorism as a “police” problem brought us Khobar Towers, USS Cole and finally 9/11.

Police REACT to a crime. Police procedure requires that a crime be committed and that “proper” procedures be followed – complete with warrants, discovery and Miranda rights for terrorists (the dem Cong solution).

The objective of a war is to destroy the enemy (and his ability to make war), not to assure terrorists civil rights, employ lawyers and run endless courtroom circuses resulting in plea-deals.

Guys like you, who spend too much time watching 24 and fantasizing about the big man you want to be but never will be, need to wake up. If strapping it on and blasting terrorists was the answer then you either have to concede our military is incompetent because terrorism persists or that the military is ill-suited to deal with the threat.

Mr. Larry Johnson..
Would you mind responding to my post at #1?
I would really appreciate it because that simple question pretty much blows away the 9-11 conspiracy people.
If OBL claims responsibility for 9-11 and the video is real according to CIA sources..then crap..I think OBL just might have planned and executed 9-11.
Larry.. I can’t stand Bush..I have never voted GOP in my life..My Parents and thier parent have never voted GOP for generations..
This whole thing about bush planning 9-11 is stupid..IMO.

Fighting terrorism is like the Texas cotton farmers who would spray pesticides every time they saw a bug on their cotton. But they soon learned that this was overkill, and the cotton parasites would become resistant to the pesticides. So they got smart and “lawyered up” on bugs. They learned which ones would harm their cotton and which were benign. They also learned what threshhold the cotton parasites had to reach before they were causing enough damage to make it worth spraying. And the banks caught on that indiscriminate spraying was a fool’s paradise, so any farmer who did it shouldn’t get a loan.

There’s a story that a pesticide salesman came racing up a farmer’s driveway with a jar full of bugs screaming that he needed to get out there and SPRAY! The farmer carefully examined the jar and said, “Mister, them bugs won’t hurt my cotton any.” So the salesman bet him $5 that he was wrong. Well soon afterwards the farmer got $5 in the mail with a note cussing him ALL to Hell. Like Larry says, you got to educate yourself about these things and not go off half-cocked. Spray today, pay tomorrow.

Actually I’ve never seen 24.

As to my “fantasies”, they certainly don’t run in the Navy SEAL direction.

By your logic, if the military doesn’t wipe out every terrorist, then that approach failed.

Your responses to contrary points are often juvenile and phony tough.
That’s fine; it IS your blog. BUT…
You have major grown-up issues (see your letter and comments re. David Brooks).

Are you short?

“Greywolf..’”

Tell me about Grayback and Red Wing…what do you think about them..??

Hoosier, which one-legged sheik are you talking about and how long after 9-11 did this video come out? Where can I view the video? Link please. In advance, though, don’t get your hopes up that Bush is innocent of 9-11 because he does know one one-legged sheik very well.

is the link to the interview broken?

i can’t seem to access it.

a 404 Not Found error was encountered

So, if we’d bombed Tim McVeigh’s hometown, that would have prevented 9/11.

Sorry to hear you dislike civil rights, the basis of our little experimental democracy. Have you considered moving to a country more in line with your disdain for them? Want some suggestions? Can I get you an airline schedule? Let me know how I can help.

ybnormal writes: Suppose in a hypothetical parallel, our major U.S. cities of NY LA SF DC Chi-town Atlanta and others decided to solve gang problems using military methods like in Iraq.

Actually, this was attempted in Los Angeles under the madcap Police Chief Daryl F. Gates in the eighties.

Daryl viewed the cops as an occupying army, and the citizenry as something that needed to be put down and kept down, a viewpoint which infected the department from the top down and culminated finally in the videotaped beating of Rodney King, and the riots following the initial acquittal of his copper assailants.

We were introduced during Daryl’s tenure to some really bizarre law enforcement tools, like that silly little armored tank with a battering ram mounted on it that Daryl kept knocking down the wrong doors with, and the infamous “Operation Hammer,” in which cops literally drove around town throwing random latinos to the sidewalk– and a certain white guy with a ridiculous scraggly bandido mustache and pretty good tan– just to put ‘em down and keep ‘em down. Thuggery, pure and simple.

Daryl was finally ridden out of town on a rail– unfortunately after shaking down the city for a golden parachute which he neither deserved or was owed, and it’s generally presumed that he must have had some sort of goods on the mayor and members of the city council (or something).

Peg, I think the site is down, my guess is temporarily for maintenance/updates.
I saw it last night and had no problem accessing it.

It’s amazing when someone with absolutely no experience in counter-terrorism tells an expert in the subject what works or doesn’t.

This whole thing about bush planning 9-11 is stupid..IMO.

Bush? He’s a useful fanatic!! Do you think Cheney told him anything specific ahead of time?
After the fact I can see some advisors telling his that God has placed him this position blah, blah, blah and then the fool goes along with the program.

Amen to this. Btw…our new AG Musakey is scaring me. I had hope for him on the first day when he compared torture to what was done by the Nazi regime.
He changed my day three.

A little renditon in the backroom or what?

What I meant to post earlier was that I disagree about Lockerbie.

With due respect Larry, I agree with people like Robert Baer, Victor Ostrovsky, Michael Scharf, Juval
Aviv and Robert Black.

Libya not guilty. Not that they haven’t engaged in terrorism…just not Lockerbie.

I’ve asked many people about what they call Blowback after we have supported certain groups and individuals.
I’d like to know your thoughts on what we need to do now that we see that our past proxy forces are enemies and they have used our tactics against us.

Two more examples of what I mean. Both are a disaster waiting to bite us in the ass.

Fouad Siniora’s Lebanese government – supplied by the US with recent shipments of new weapons for the official Lebanese army – has now admitted that militias are also being created among Muslim pro-government groups.

http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article3075730.ece

Terrorism Awareness Indeed

By Rick Perlstein on October 19, 2007 – 4:38pm.

To make a long and bizarre story short, the MEK got its start in early 1960s Iran, helped overthrow the Shah in 1979, but quickly turned on the revolutionary government it helped bring to power. Employing an ideological blend of Stalinism and Islamism, the tactics of a paramilitary guerilla faction, and the organizational structure of a cult, the group went into exile, eventually making their home in Iraq in the mid-1980s. Not only did Saddam give the organization cover: he armed, funded, and utilized them for a variety of ends over two decades.

Here you have virtually everything the Right claims to oppose all rolled into one: Islamism, Marxism, terrorism, and Saddam. Naturally, then, neoconservatives would utterly deplore the MEK and everything it stands for, right? The MEK would in fact make an ideal target for Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week and Terrorism Awareness efforts, no?

Well, no. At least one of the carnival’s acts, it turns out, is rather fond of the Islamo-Stalinist-terrorist cult group, and has repeatedly argued for the removal of the MEK from the State Department’s list of terrorist groups and indeed urged the U.S. government to embrace it. Daniel Pipes, who will be speaking at Tufts on October 24th as part of the Horowitz high jinks, has made the MEK a recurring theme in his writings going back several years: here, here, and here.)

Pipes has also gone to bat for the MEK right in the pages of Horowitz’s house organ.

But the fact that several prominent American conservatives have cozied up to an Islamist-Stalinist cult that was on Saddam’s payroll and the State Department considers a terrorist organization — this raises serious questions (to put it mildly) about the Right’s bedfellows and the calculus that determines them.

It suggests the need for a little more terrorism awareness.

http://commonsense.ourfuture.org/terrorism_awareness_indeed

As far as terrorism goes, when does Mr. Johnson come clean on U.S. acts of terror in the past and today? If you want to defend the CIA, how about explaining the assassinations and planes shot down by our most secret agency? If you want to claim Iran as supporting terrorism, how about explaining why we backed them in their attempts to assassinate Saddam back in the eighties? Are you denying the “jackals” in the CIA were responsible for the assassinations of President Omar Torrijos of Panama and President Jaime Roldas of Ecuador. Are you denying that we are now harboring terrorists who were responsible for killing innocents throughout Central and South America? Does your version of the U.S.A. simply claim that we can do whatever we want, ala Bush/Cheney, regardless of who is killed and regardless of what countries suffer for our greed and theft?

THAIR..

Its getting obvious you don’t know much about Larry
or No Quarter…and that you have not read His archives..articles..Posts..or his testimony before Congress or Apperances and Speaking engagements..or who His friends and associates are in the Intel Community who are Publishing some great books..like “Jaw breaker” or Tyler Drumhellers book..or are joining Larry in speaking out about some of the Issues you list..

I Read your letter to the Washington Post in June about Gitmo..and Human Rights..

Have you read all the similar articles and comments that have been posted here at No Quarter..?

The other side of the Intel/Covert/bad Guy Coin is the KGB..and its Communist Counterparts and Agencies..and Criminal Acts and Human rights Violations that go way beyond anything the CIA has done..

The United States is not perfect..neither is Our government..or our agencies..but at least here..you can search for the TRUTH..Publish Books..Express your opinion through various mediums..Blogs..and even get some “JUSTICE” once in awhile..and actually hold People accountable..

In Most other Countrys..all you get for Your Efforts is a Bullet..in case you haven’t read the Russian..Chinese..North korean..or Cuban News..

There ARE a few BRAVE People speaking out about the type of Abuses you raise..like Larry and Valerie..and Tyler..and others..and they are Holding the CIA and our government Accountable..

I Appreciate thier efforts..and you should too..

I just love it when anyone who claims the U.S. is not as bad as other totalitarian countries so therefore “I should” appreciate what they are doing. You go and support the ex-CIA types who have murdered, tortured and covered up these crimes, but don’t ever tell me what I should do. Got it?

If Johnson has a scintilla of integrity, he will denounce the CIA along with the antics of the morons running the White House today. As long as sychophants like some on this board want to favor whichever way the wind happens to blow on a particular day, you will be fed the same pablum from those who are responsible for taking our children to war and getting them killed. Until a majority of citizens stands up and demands the truth about our escapades, we will continue to spiral straight to hell.

What say you about Israel and their history on terrorism? Maybe you could point me to your pieces on the topic. If you have published anything on the likes of Luis Posada Carriles; the assassinations of President Omar Torrijos of Panama and President Jaime Roldas of Ecuador; or the war on drugs, I’d love to catch up.

thank you,

RT

While Iran is the evil du jour of the Bush junta, our ally Turkey is invading Iraq and threatening our efforts there, and making no bones about it, yet Cheney comes out again today with more cowardly threats. Just when will this administration be sorted out by the American people and when will those in the military and intelligence communities speak truth to the lying cowards that inhabit the White House?

Its a shame what prejudice does to the cognate abilities of the brain. When we assume the qualities of the whole are equally found in the components at individual level, we rob our brains of valuable observations.

Why does Larry Johnson have to “deny”,”acknowledge”, or other responses, especially for events that probably took place before he served, after he served, or in arenas he didn’t serve. Why does he have to answer to you about anything about the CIA?

You know, I used to hear people say, “The Dalai Lama…I don’t know about him, after all he took help from the CIA in the 50s.” This was one of the most stupid things I ever read or was told. It assumes that a “dalai lama” would know what the CIA was to do for the next 40 years even though they were less than a decade old when he was approached, and second because of China’s slaughter of Tibet, some damn help from the US is suprising, and its the only thing ever done.

And don’t forget the new director egghead Bush appointee just started releasing old info about CIA activities. No more need for your paranoia, the agency is telling you what happened.

So if you’re going to come here to slander and harrass Johnson, know that he isn’t standing alone in this corner of the web called, NOQuarterUSA.

And final note, the overuse of “we”,”us”,”our” reflects guilt upon my head or name or family or children. I didn’t do a damn thing to another country, I didn’t steal, destroy or bomb another country, that was “them”, “they”, “those”.

Hoosier,
I agree with you. I’ll post a longer response this week on the 9-11 conspiracy. Just haven’t had a chance to get to it yet.
LJ

Chris,
couldn’t have said it better. thanks man.

Is this that same nog from the other day who comes to a board like this and says, “you guys are sychophants”.

“don’t ever tell me what I should do. Got it?”

What a freakin hypocrite!

If you had an ounce of integrity you’d approach people with that integrity. What you have is hubris, not integrity. When are the netwingnuts like you going to understand that you can’t come preach at me or others like this and get anything.

What an arrogant punkass.

Robert,
Who are you and what is your experience that qualifies you to speak as any authority on these matters? I’ve posted my true name, my resume, and you can easily find my writings on the net. What about you?

As to Larry Johnson’s loyalty to his country as a citizen, there is no question.

As to his loyalty in service to his country as a CIA employee, there is no question.

Has everything the CIA has done over the years in the interest of “national security” been completely right, correct, or what ever words you want to use?

Probably not.

Is Larry Johnson responsible for everything the CIA has done good or bad?

Of course not.

So what is the problem here?

I don’t understand why certain people here are blaming Larry for creditability problems the CIA may be experiencing today or even in the past.

I don’t believe Larry’s resume said anything about him being the head of the CIA for the his entire career unless that info has been redacted (only kidding larry) so how could he know everything that that has gone on?

Is Larry risking his reputation by all the remarks he said about Valerie Plame’s Career between 1985 and 2002?

I don’t know and I doubt if any of you know.

Did he have to sign any lifetime non disclosure documents when he retired? (You did retire right?)

Same answer.

So lighten up on Larry, we are lucky to have someone who is willing to share what he can with us.

So if some of you people are interested in ripping a former CIA employee a new one over all your perceived wrongs the CIA has done over the years go somewhere else to do your ripping, but you might have a problem as I am not sure if you ran an ad for “CIA agents wanted to blame for all the CIA problems over the years” you would get a lot of takers.

US citizen. I didn’t know I was speaking as an authority, I thought I was just asking questions. It isn’t my site, and I’m not claiming any mantle, just wondering how you think. What sort of qualifications does one need to get you to answer?

The only experience being a CIA agent gets you, in my opinion, is that you have probably murdered someone or been responsible for some atrocity. That is based on education and what we know they have admitted to doing. So if you want to stand there and say that qualifies you to defend anyone, I say wrong. The CIA has been involved in too many scandalous deeds. Now if you say, yeah, I was involved in those things and I was wrong, than I would think you have some credibility. If you say, Tenet was lying scum and should be tried for the war along side Bush et al, then maybe you’ve learned something too. You think having his resume qualifies him to tell me what I should or should not say. I say wrong. So if you want to bully me away, dream on. I am not going anywhere. This is some kind of debate you guys have going here. Sounds like you’re all patting each other on the back and don’t want anyone to ask you a question. What do you have to hide? if you were with the CIA are you saying you never broke any laws?

So what exactly did “Chris” say that you couldn’t have said any better? You don’t have a problem with the atrocities committed by the CIA? You claim you were there but you don’t have any knowledge of it, yet you criticize others? That sounds like BS to me. You guys want to fight anyone who disagrees with you or demand they have some resume to match yours before you justify your arrogance? I’m not the one putting a book out or touting myself as an expert. I’m just asking you to justify what the CIA did and admit to the crimes you probably either committed or hid from the citizens of this country. From where I sit, you guys are about as wrong as Bush and Cheney and probably as criminal, so why would anyone accept your criticisms? If you think the CIA was right for murdering world leaders, just say so.

You are either a twelve year old who is possessed of a typical juvenile sense of humor or you are an outright moron. Try doing some reading of some real books and stay away from movies and comics. Your secret decoder ring is not a good source for knowing anything about the CIA. I despise stupidity and do not suffer fools well. You are a complete fool.

Is that piece of writing a result of your “resume?” You think you can convince people of something by calling them names? You and your tough guy ass kissers want to sit around pumping each other up like some pathetic middle aged loser jerk offs and that is supposed to mean something?

Why can’t you answer some simple questions? Maybe you’ll feel better after some of the losers here post some more garbage threats. Let me know next time you’re around Berkeley and I’ll come out and listen to and see if you’re up to an adult dialogue.

What fucking bizarro world do you inhabit? You consider the following a valid question or assumption:
“You go and support the ex-CIA types who have murdered, tortured and covered up these crimes, but don’t ever tell me what I should do. Got it?”

You make wild assertions and employ guilt by association. If you are not taking your meds then there is a medical reason for your stupidity. Otherwise, you’re a flaming asshole and I will ban your ass in heartbeat. I’m not going to subject this community to a certifiable idiot like you.

That’s not a threat, that’s a promise.

In case anyone is interested, Mr. “Thair” is actually:
Robert L Mendez and he lives in San Francisco. (I suspect he is a frustrated Silvester groupie).

His email is: hirsute_123@yahoo.com

Feel free to drop him a line. However, no threats of physical or mental harm should be issued. Play nice. But I despise chickenshits like this guy who try to hide behind anonymous posts.

Are you the same Robert Thair that used to hang out at the Med and sold the People’s Daily Worker paper outside of Cody’s? Still haven’t graduated, have ya?
Take Bart to the Richmond station, take the transporter to San Quentin, go to the entrance and tell the the guards that you’re there for Big Willie’s conjugal visit..then report back and tell us how it worked out.

The great thing about terrorists, Larry, and sorry for being a stig-in-the-mud on this one as well. The great thing about terrorists is they require counter-terrorists.

Or in other words, as one gang banger policeman friend o’ mine once said, “without criminals I’d be finished”. We already know from successive leaks around the World that policing is rigged to ensure that criminals are plentiful. Therefore, for me, living in an age that actively promotes a terrorist threat why wouldn’t I assume the same rigging methods be applied?

This not to say that some incarcerated criminals are not very nasty people, or that there are not fanatical [for lack of terminology] groups scheming acts of chaos. If we look at the last 100 years history, why have the prisons always been albeit full to the brim, with far more on the streets than could possibly be housed. Clearly, the incasteration process does not work. The very creation of prisions have defined an under class who were to be perpetually ostracised by good society. Would you hire a crim? Those who aren’t ostracised feel that way.

Humanity has shown itself excellent at attacking manifestations [phoney or real], but piss poor at determining the root cause and implementing a strategy of improvement.

Until law enforcement learns to get of its high horse, it will be the same old shit…..forever, no matter how you describe it. Terrorists terrorise for reasons. First determine the reasons and then design a World that ensures no reason. At present the reason for counter terrorism is terrorism. If the World was tolerant of terrorism, it just let it happen, would anyone bother to terrorise again?

I motoin terrorism exists only because of it’s reaction. Take away the reaction, it serves no purpose.

grazie

oh, are you going to watch the adult dialogue? because you damn sure aren’t going to be in it.

What he agreed to, since he seemed to do well in reading comprehension, is that you can’t paint the CIA with one brush. If you think you can, then you just are being obtuse and haven’t being paying attention. The CIA is not a monolythic agency.

To ask one agent, Larry Johnson, in this case, “to justify what the CIA did and admit to the crims you probably either committed or hid from the citizens of this country” is idiot talk.

If Larry Johnson never killed anyone, or was in a position of unethical behavior, and you assault him with this crap, why should he answer you?

Here try it on for size.

Robert, since you are a man, and most child molestors are men, will you please justify what men did and admit to the molestations you probably committed or hid from the citizens in this community?

You don’t get it. I’ve met your type before many times and you make me puke. You are a prejudiced idiot. You don’t have to be that, but you play it well. You decide the whole based on the parts. And then describe the parts as if they are the whole. This is stupid thinking.

My toes are not my eyes, but yet they are connected, how strange. But should my toe suffer when I poke my eye?

One such evidence is that you portray those of us who agree, mostly, with Larry as “kissasses” and “sycophants”. I’ve played this stupid game around Progressive action groups for the last several years and I’m immune to its consequences, but you are not. Each time you do it, you show me you cannot make distinctions, you don’t ask questions to get real answers, and you are so caught up in your own view of the world that no other view matters. You’ve got all the answers before you ask a question.

If you have a convoluted notion that the CIA is all one thing, then enjoy that ignorance. If you think the cops are all bad, and all government officals are corrupt, and all politicans are corrupt, then enjoy that ignorance, and the size of the army against you will grow and grow.

Personally I prefer to see things as they are, regardless of my biases, wants, denials, and petty categories. A man who sees 5 colors is blind and man who hears 5 tones is deaf.

BigDog…

I am So Lucky That I found your blog and great articles. I will come to your blog often for finding new great articles from your blog.I am adding your rss feed in my reader Thank you…

Just recently discovered No Quarter as well, & plan to stick around.