Comments on: Pat Lang on Israel’s Gaza Misadventure http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/ Sun, 27 May 2012 12:54:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Dennis Ross and the “Jewish People Policy Planning Institute” : NO QUARTER http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1128243 Dennis Ross and the “Jewish People Policy Planning Institute” : NO QUARTER Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:01:39 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1128243 [...] Note: As Larry Johnson wrote about Pat Lang’s other recent post on “Israel’s Gaza Misadventure,” “Pat Lang is a dear friend and a brilliant scholar. He established the Arabic program [...] [...] Note: As Larry Johnson wrote about Pat Lang’s other recent post on “Israel’s Gaza Misadventure,” “Pat Lang is a dear friend and a brilliant scholar. He established the Arabic program [...]

]]> By: DE Tedooru http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1116990 DE Tedooru Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:38:20 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1116990 Pat Lang sure had it right. As I read it, bullies who attack because they are afraid that they might not be feared enough to deter will never feel secure. But there's more to the current "shooting fish [Palestinians] in a barrel [Gaza]" than that. Barak has a reputation as a bungler who plays long shots blindly; he hoped to, just for once, prove himself a magician. Livni was nixed for the premeirship by the rabbis soly because she's a girl; she hopes to prove herself as able to massacre without flinching as the best of them. Olmert's career is deeply stained by corruption; he hopes to drown the stain in Palestinan blood. Trying to re-establish Israel's fearsome reputation after Lebanon 2006 and opportunistically to used the Gaza massacre politically, these three have repeated in Gaza the horrors of the Warsaw Ghetto-- in both cases a polpulation was strangled and starved and, when a few resisted and fired back, that served as an excuse to massacre as "collective punishment" in order to clear Gaza of Palestinians. But though Israeli leaders since 1947 sought to crush Arabs with what they called an "iron wall," thus bringing about their vison of "Greater Israel," the Israeli public has always been very sensitive to casualties--both Arab as Israeli-- on moral grounds. So every "Zionazi" era of ethnic cleansing based on a leibensraum thesis was followed by a "post-Zionist" era of land for peace and mutual support. The time is most propitious now, for Israel can serve as nuclear umbrella to all the Arabs against Iran's puny potential atomic bomb in exchange for full integration. The current Arab one crop (oil) banana republic governments are no longer tentable. Here, I know from many Arabs, Israel can be a "light onto the [Arab} nations," as many of Zionism's Founding Fathers hoped, leading them into modernity with its high-sci/tech teaching and industries. America is broke and can no longer engorge the $$ placenta from which as a 60 years old fetus Israel subsisted. It must be born as a self-sufficient real nation by integrating itself with its Arab kith-and-kin on a joint road to popular prosperity. Towards that end, it cannot continue to kill Arabs in order to expand Greater Israel for there is no Daispora Jewish Great Alyiah coming to populate it. It must develop a two-sates-one-economy solution with the Palestinians fast so they can become the brokers of the great Israeli-Arab modernization enterprise that the US so botched up in Iraq. There is still time, for the Palestinians have often before seen the light that follows the dark in their relation with Israel. An aggressive economic unity now can safely predict a regional unity within a decade as the West becomes independent of fossil fuel. The Diaspora Jews like their own countries just fine. That's why, per the US State Dept, 78% of the homes built at US tyaxpayers' expense for olims (settlers) that never came are empty. There is no need for MORE land, only for MORE peace in which to build a new Mideast. It is doable only if Israel quickly ends its murderous "iron wall" of expansion to supposedly create leibensraum for the "olim" that will never come. So Zionists must follow the moral precepts of their common culture with the Arabs, as dreamed by their Founding Fathers. Pat Lang sure had it right. As I read it, bullies who attack because they are afraid that they might not be feared enough to deter will never feel secure. But there’s more to the current “shooting fish [Palestinians] in a barrel [Gaza]” than that. Barak has a reputation as a bungler who plays long shots blindly; he hoped to, just for once, prove himself a magician. Livni was nixed for the premeirship by the rabbis soly because she’s a girl; she hopes to prove herself as able to massacre without flinching as the best of them. Olmert’s career is deeply stained by corruption; he hopes to drown the stain in Palestinan blood. Trying to re-establish Israel’s fearsome reputation after Lebanon 2006 and opportunistically to used the Gaza massacre politically, these three have repeated in Gaza the horrors of the Warsaw Ghetto– in both cases a polpulation was strangled and starved and, when a few resisted and fired back, that served as an excuse to massacre as “collective punishment” in order to clear Gaza of Palestinians. But though Israeli leaders since 1947 sought to crush Arabs with what they called an “iron wall,” thus bringing about their vison of “Greater Israel,” the Israeli public has always been very sensitive to casualties–both Arab as Israeli– on moral grounds. So every “Zionazi” era of ethnic cleansing based on a leibensraum thesis was followed by a “post-Zionist” era of land for peace and mutual support. The time is most propitious now, for Israel can serve as nuclear umbrella to all the Arabs against Iran’s puny potential atomic bomb in exchange for full integration. The current Arab one crop (oil) banana republic governments are no longer tentable. Here, I know from many Arabs, Israel can be a “light onto the [Arab} nations,” as many of Zionism’s Founding Fathers hoped, leading them into modernity with its high-sci/tech teaching and industries. America is broke and can no longer engorge the $$ placenta from which as a 60 years old fetus Israel subsisted. It must be born as a self-sufficient real nation by integrating itself with its Arab kith-and-kin on a joint road to popular prosperity. Towards that end, it cannot continue to kill Arabs in order to expand Greater Israel for there is no Daispora Jewish Great Alyiah coming to populate it. It must develop a two-sates-one-economy solution with the Palestinians fast so they can become the brokers of the great Israeli-Arab modernization enterprise that the US so botched up in Iraq. There is still time, for the Palestinians have often before seen the light that follows the dark in their relation with Israel. An aggressive economic unity now can safely predict a regional unity within a decade as the West becomes independent of fossil fuel. The Diaspora Jews like their own countries just fine. That’s why, per the US State Dept, 78% of the homes built at US tyaxpayers’ expense for olims (settlers) that never came are empty. There is no need for MORE land, only for MORE peace in which to build a new Mideast. It is doable only if Israel quickly ends its murderous “iron wall” of expansion to supposedly create leibensraum for the “olim” that will never come. So Zionists must follow the moral precepts of their common culture with the Arabs, as dreamed by their Founding Fathers.

]]> By: Hamas and Iran : NO QUARTER http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1116967 Hamas and Iran : NO QUARTER Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:37:56 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1116967 [...] Note: As Larry Johnson wrote about Pat Lang’s other recent post on “Israel’s Gaza Misadventure,” “Pat Lang is a dear friend and a brilliant scholar. He established the Arabic program [...] [...] Note: As Larry Johnson wrote about Pat Lang’s other recent post on “Israel’s Gaza Misadventure,” “Pat Lang is a dear friend and a brilliant scholar. He established the Arabic program [...]

]]> By: The IDF ground force : NO QUARTER http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1109236 The IDF ground force : NO QUARTER Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:51:48 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1109236 [...] Note: As Larry Johnson wrote about Pat Lang’s other recent post on “Israel’s Gaza Misadventure,” “Pat Lang is a dear friend and a brilliant scholar. He established the Arabic program [...] [...] Note: As Larry Johnson wrote about Pat Lang’s other recent post on “Israel’s Gaza Misadventure,” “Pat Lang is a dear friend and a brilliant scholar. He established the Arabic program [...]

]]> By: stodgie http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103863 stodgie Fri, 02 Jan 2009 06:00:10 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103863 exactly workingclass artist! the countries in the middle east are terrifed of these radicals. exactly workingclass artist! the countries in the middle east are terrifed of these radicals.

]]> By: Zeke http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103847 Zeke Fri, 02 Jan 2009 04:53:17 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103847 GFY GFY

]]> By: Snickers http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103840 Snickers Fri, 02 Jan 2009 04:30:52 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103840 Thanks Zeke, I agree. Thanks Zeke, I agree.

]]> By: beyond_words http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103799 beyond_words Fri, 02 Jan 2009 03:14:45 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103799 Well Hamas obviously has to be stopped and rooted out. They will never have any peaceful intentions, ever. The only peace they want is the ability to re-arm themselves for the next murderous rampage. Hopefully a ground invasion by Israel can root out the leadership in this area for awhile. The Palestinian people, however, are not all like this and to see 1.5 million of them packed into this narrow piece of land akin to a concentration- refugee camp conditions being attacked by massive ordinance and firepower reminds me of shooting fish in a barrel. I've read nearly 50%! of this 1.5 million civilian population are children! This is atrocious coming form a small but powerful 1st world democratic power! What would I do or what do I expect Israel to do? Act like the peace loving humane nation you say you are and invade- and kill/arrest these thugs, root them out and bring in humanitarian aid to these innocent children/woman you are starving to death. Nearly 2000 people with serious injuries with little medical aid getting in, with the israeili foreign minister today refusing a french bid for a ceasefire to bring in needed supplies. I know this will never fly, (just an idea)but in my opinion the only way out of this situation in the section of the middle east would be if Israel followed the lead of many western nations. After getting rid of Hamas etc, negotiate for the amalgamization of palestinians into israeli lands where their culture/heritage etc is just as protected as any other. Go into any major western city and you will see our china towns, mosques, orthodox churches, etc etc etc...why cant they live side by side amongst one another as they have for centuries before the creation of israel?? It would take massive cooperation on both sides of course but lets face it, even the other arab countries dont want the palestinians. This would of course only work after all terrorist elements were eliminated.... ( yea i know, utopian thoughts but if the west can do it with our multitude of different religions here, why cant they?) Well Hamas obviously has to be stopped and rooted out. They will never have any peaceful intentions, ever. The only peace they want is the ability to re-arm themselves for the next murderous rampage. Hopefully a ground invasion by Israel can root out the leadership in this area for awhile.

The Palestinian people, however, are not all like this and to see 1.5 million of them packed into this narrow piece of land akin to a concentration- refugee camp conditions being attacked by massive ordinance and firepower reminds me of shooting fish in a barrel.

I’ve read nearly 50%! of this 1.5 million civilian population are children! This is atrocious coming form a small but powerful 1st world democratic power!

What would I do or what do I expect Israel to do? Act like the peace loving humane nation you say you are and invade- and kill/arrest these thugs, root them out and bring in humanitarian aid to these innocent children/woman you are starving to death. Nearly 2000 people with serious injuries with little medical aid getting in, with the israeili foreign minister today refusing a french bid for a ceasefire to bring in needed supplies.

I know this will never fly, (just an idea)but in my opinion the only way out of this situation in the section of the middle east would be if Israel followed the lead of many western nations. After getting rid of Hamas etc, negotiate for the amalgamization of palestinians into israeli lands where their culture/heritage etc is just as protected as any other. Go into any major western city and you will see our china towns, mosques, orthodox churches, etc etc etc…why cant they live side by side amongst one another as they have for centuries before the creation of israel??

It would take massive cooperation on both sides of course but lets face it, even the other arab countries dont want the palestinians. This would of course only work after all terrorist elements were eliminated…. ( yea i know, utopian thoughts but if the west can do it with our multitude of different religions here, why cant they?)

]]> By: Snickers http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103798 Snickers Fri, 02 Jan 2009 03:14:02 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103798 Yep, Annie and Benny. Yep, Annie and Benny.

]]> By: Strawberrybitch http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103797 Strawberrybitch Fri, 02 Jan 2009 03:08:26 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103797 That was Mary's point. We've lost the moral high ground to places like China, India, etc. Hell, I'm racking my brain trying to remember the African country in the middle of a horrible civil war where they were using AIDS as a weapon because 'it is cheaper than bullits'. When we tried to call them on it, they basically told us to sod off considering what happened at Abu Graib(sp). That was Mary’s point. We’ve lost the moral high ground to places like China, India, etc. Hell, I’m racking my brain trying to remember the African country in the middle of a horrible civil war where they were using AIDS as a weapon because ‘it is cheaper than bullits’. When we tried to call them on it, they basically told us to sod off considering what happened at Abu Graib(sp).

]]> By: Snickers http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103796 Snickers Fri, 02 Jan 2009 03:04:34 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103796 Yep, Smitty. And thanks for post PacificIsland. Yep, Smitty. And thanks for post PacificIsland.

]]> By: Snickers http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103793 Snickers Fri, 02 Jan 2009 02:57:23 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103793 Well Mary, those countries you mention are such champions of human rights, yes? They really have a lot of room to talk, right? Instead of condemning someone else, maybe they should try taking care of their own dirty laundry for a change. Well Mary, those countries you mention are such champions of human rights, yes? They really have a lot of room to talk, right? Instead of condemning someone else, maybe they should try taking care of their own dirty laundry for a change.

]]> By: Snickers http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103787 Snickers Fri, 02 Jan 2009 02:51:40 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103787 I agree, Xax, well said. I agree, Xax, well said.

]]> By: Snickers http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103781 Snickers Fri, 02 Jan 2009 02:45:56 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103781 Thank you Orwelllives, I find your comments insightful and agree with them wholeheartedly. And thanks for the history update. Thank you Orwelllives, I find your comments insightful and agree with them wholeheartedly. And thanks for the history update.

]]> By: Snickers http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/9765/pat-lang-on-israels-gaza-misadventure/#comment-1103766 Snickers Fri, 02 Jan 2009 02:26:03 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=9765#comment-1103766 War is war. Peggy Sue I thank your relatives for serving in the US Military and freeing my family from Japanese concentration camps and the torture they endured in the Pacific. Atrocities happen in wars - that's what war means. My parents endured endless bombing for several years, every day, and I remember one of my first lessons my parents taught - stay away from UXB -get the bomb squad. When we immigrated to the US it was a whole different ballgame. No one in this country had any experience of living in concentration or living under German occupation - a constant topic in our family get togethers. Whenever there was thunder, or the 4th of July firecrackers, my mother would hide under the bed or hide in the closet, covering her head, physically remembering the bombing. Scared out of her mind. While the Israelis may not have lost as many people, I would imagine that being the constant target of missiles (whether or not they actually explode) has to be harrowing and the health cost should not be dismissed as insignificant. I don't know who's right or who's wrong, but it always takes two to tango, and having read so many posts here and learning so much about this situation, my question is why don't the neighboring Arab countries assimilate the Palestinians, and shouldn't Israel be able to defend herself. Who decides the force is disproportionate? And I have lost my homeland, in case anyone mentions the Palestinians losing theirs. My suggestion is find a home somewhere else and live and enjoy life. And count whatever blessings and joys you have in your life. War is war. Peggy Sue I thank your relatives for serving in the US Military and freeing my family from Japanese concentration camps and the torture they endured in the Pacific. Atrocities happen in wars – that’s what war means. My parents endured endless bombing for several years, every day, and I remember one of my first lessons my parents taught – stay away from UXB -get the bomb squad. When we immigrated to the US it was a whole different ballgame. No one in this country had any experience of living in concentration or living under German occupation – a constant topic in our family get togethers.
Whenever there was thunder, or the 4th of July firecrackers, my mother would hide under the bed or hide in the closet, covering her head, physically remembering the bombing. Scared out of her mind.
While the Israelis may not have lost as many people, I would imagine that being the constant target of missiles (whether or not they actually explode) has to be harrowing and the health cost should not be dismissed as insignificant.
I don’t know who’s right or who’s wrong, but it always takes two to tango, and having read so many posts here and learning so much about this situation, my question is why don’t the neighboring Arab countries assimilate the Palestinians, and shouldn’t Israel be able to defend herself. Who decides the force is disproportionate? And I have lost my homeland, in case anyone mentions the Palestinians losing theirs. My suggestion is find a home somewhere else and live and enjoy life. And count whatever blessings and joys you have in your life.

]]>