AUTHOR: Larry Johnson
TITLE: Enough of the Terrorism Canard
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: 0
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/10/2007 09:22:28 PM
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BODY:
<p>by<br />Larry C Johnson</p>

<p>George Bush still does not get it.&nbsp; The war in Iraq is not and never
has been about terrorism.&nbsp; The attacks, the vast majority of attacks
carried out against U.S. troops and Iraqis, are not the work of foreign
jihadists operating under the direction of Osama Bin Laden.&nbsp; The facts
on the ground do not support it.</p>
<p>Although U.S. forces have killed the head of Al Qaeda in Iraq,
Zarqawi, violence has soared unabated.&nbsp; The reason is simple and the
solution complex. The U.S. presence in Iraq has unleashed a sectarian
war that pits Sunni against Shia.&nbsp; The United States now finds itself
confronted with equally unpalatable choices:&nbsp; 1) Back the Sunnis and
piss of the Shias, or 2) Back the Shias and piss off the Sunnis.</p>
<p>Bush tonight signals that we are going to pitch our tent with the
Shias except we also are going to fight the one Shia, Moktada al Sadr
and his Mahdi Army militia, who are the most anti-iranian of the Shia. 
Great!&nbsp; The one group of Shias not closely aligned with Iran are the
ones we will attack.&nbsp; This is madness. </p>
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EXTENDED BODY:
<p>Bush also has ignored the recent National Intelligence Estimate,
which says that the U.S. presence in Iraq is fueling terrorism not
diminishing it. Putting more U.S. troops into Baghdad who will be
killing more Iraqis will simply embitter more Iraqis and speed
recruitment of aspiring terrorists.</p>
<p>In casting our lot with Iraqi police we are supporting a Shia force
that is the main mover behind the death squads. The Sunnis get that
message loud and clear and will hold us responsible. That means more
attacks against American soldiers.</p>
<p>The Army also is largely Shia. This is not a deal that the Sunnis
can live with. Meanwhile, by going after Moktada al Sadr we are opening
the door to SCIRI and its principals, such as Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, who
are in bed with Iran. We will also increase the likelihood that Moktada
and his forces will step up their attacks against U.S. forces. Unlike
the Sunnis, Moktada and his followers can shutdown the U.S. supply line
that keeps our troops watered and fed. At the end of the day, the U.S.
position in the region will be weakened and diminished. Mission
accomplished?</p>
<p>At the very moment that Bush wants to isolate Iran we are taking
steps to strengthen the very elements in Iraq most closely aligned with
Iran. At the same time we are stepping up our efforts to destroy the
Iraqi elements least sympathetic to Iran. What is Bush trying to do? </p>
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EXCERPT:

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KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Crackers
EMAIL: danenw@yahoo.com
IP: 67.189.34.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/10/2007 10:03:09 PM
I think if the Dems don't do what we mandated them to do, then the people will have to take matters in their own hands.

The atrocity known as George Bush needs to be removed from office. The son-of-a-bitch doesn't care how many people die or how much of our  money is transitioned to his corporate war profiteers.

"Fight against terror," that's what he said.

IMPEACH this bastard.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: J
EMAIL: fam24578@yahoo.com
IP: 69.8.9.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/10/2007 10:48:47 PM
Larry,

this 'surge' is looking more and more like a 'shifting the focus away' from what bush is really up to -- his buildup for a war on iran.  that's what i see -- bush's surge is a distraction of the public view and congress's view so neither one will notice his iran war footing buildups.  the old shell game at work.


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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: GSD
EMAIL: gsiggob@verizon.net
IP: 70.109.151.41
URL: 
DATE: 01/10/2007 11:49:57 PM
The people of America rebuked Bush on election day. Now it is time for the Big Daddy to repay the recalcitrant children by punishing them with a troop escalation, more troops killed and threats of more war for Syria and Iran.

Has Bush given Barney the cyanide pill yet?

-GSD
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 69.59.206.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 12:08:31 AM
will the people that can do something begin to act?   their silence in this new congress is deafening.  what exactly are they waiting for?
it is time for impeachment of the executive branch now.  they can't be allowed to act any longer.  we know enough to suspect high crimes and misdemeanors.
just what more is required?


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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Jezebel
EMAIL: jezebel@Hotmail.com
IP: 71.106.35.41
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 12:24:23 AM
Crackers is right.  The voters gave Bush and the Democrats a mandate last November, which Bush obviously has not desire to adhere to.  

Question is: Will the Democrats?  And no Nancy, a no-smoking rule in the House doesn't cut it. C'mon people show some spine for once.

Please.
 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:22:58 AM
Bush implied he may preemptively go after Iran and Syria on the first excuse!!

As Larry says, the al Qaeda presence in Iraq [post-invasion] is small and not the main ingredient in the violence. It's a civil war between Sunni and Shia, which Bush helped create and continues to exacerbate. And he's going to insert about 20,000 more ill-equipped troops into  Baghdad and Anbar to become cannon fodder. 

How many war fronts are we up to now: Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, with North Korea [about to test another A-bomb], Iran and Syria to come. 

Bush keeps saying that we're fighting them there, so we don't fight them here. Bush wants us to imagine Muqtada al-Sadr attacking Detroit. Unbelievable! 

There is no rationale behind Bush's policies. They're NUTS!
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.154.127.126
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:43:44 AM
I'm still trying to understand what exactly is being proposed. I think what I'm piecing together is "the surge" consists of 21,000  additional U.S. troops, an  unknown number of  Badr Brigades, & an  unknown number of Pesh Merga (who may or not show up). Who is attacking who? i.e. Is it Badr Brigades vs Mahdi Army? Or is it Badr Brigades vs al Qiada, Baathists, et al?  I'm confused. And what are U.S. troops & Iraqi security forces supposed to be doing while this other stuff is going on? 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shaman ∞ 
EMAIL: prth@earthlink.net
IP: 207.69.137.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:45:46 AM
Don't forget,Bush said he was putting "ATLEAST" 20,000 troops into Iraq.
That could mean 40,000 or more.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 02:18:07 AM
I'm sure everyone has noticed the very slick military recruiting ads which are running constantly - especially during sporting events. Fresh blood is needed, because new fronts in the idiots "GWOT" are about to open.   Perhaps the small invasion/occupying force in Iraq was implemented for (2) reasons:  hold costs down so the contractors (cronies and pioneers) could skim greater profits; and to reserve firepower for future campaigns in Iraq, Syria, etc.   You know, kill 2 birds with 1 stone, so-to-speak.  But the ground forces in Iraq are being ground up, which means if I lived in Iran or Syria I would be relocating upwind. No time for investigations and hearings now - Congress should act.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Shirin
EMAIL: umrayya@comcast.net
IP: 67.174.214.199
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 03:50:36 AM
"The United States now finds itself confronted with equally unpalatable choices:  1) Back the Sunnis and piss of the Shias, or 2) Back the Shias and piss off the Sunnis."

These are not the only two options, Larry. There is at least one more, and that is to get out, stop feeding the conflict, and leave the Sunnis and Shi`as to manage their relationship as they have done very well for centuries.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: rob payne
EMAIL: altosax40@netscape.net
IP: 67.126.199.149
URL: http://bird-lives.blogspot.com/
DATE: 01/11/2007 04:54:23 AM
Everything Bush has done has increased the violence, mistakes or purposeful? I would guess that the Whitehouse wants to make it as difficult as possible to withdraw from Iraq. The oil companies who want the oil cannot start pumping until the violence is contained and it would seem the fastest track would be to take one side or another so that one side dominates ending the violence and the thievery, whoops I mean the pumping can begin.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Gypsy
EMAIL: GypsyAunt@aol.com
IP: 64.12.116.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 06:43:11 AM
Sadly, Larry, the answer to your question is Bush is willing to send more Soldiers to die and spend more of our childrens future to cover his own ass and pass this off to someone else who they will attempt to put the blame on for loosing it.  He is again displaying the moral courage he had in Vietnam when he went into the National Guard and went awol even from that.  This was entirely predictable from a man who failed his way to the top.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Spalpeen Hammer
EMAIL: inside@outside.com
IP: 207.69.138.8
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 08:28:31 AM
Another provocation - US raids the Iranian consulate in Irbil.  One Gulf of Tonkin comin' up.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sky-Ho
EMAIL: ad4271@hotmail.com
IP: 67.101.54.143
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 09:32:54 AM
*US raids the Iranian consulate in Irbil*

Looks like Bush is getting desparate, looking for evidence he can use to "justify" WOI (war on Iran).

I suppose they could always plant evidence during a raid.  Seems more like a neo-con thing to do.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.96
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 09:34:58 AM
When was the last NIE?  The last one I've heard about was in 2004, with the one underdevelopment being held back until the end of this month.

Boy those 1300 A.Q. must be supermen.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: graywolf
EMAIL: graywolf175@hotmail.com
IP: 71.169.137.150
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 09:37:40 AM
IF the situation gets worse, or stays the same and the US pulls out (in 12 months, say), what happens?

1) Sinnis and Shia kiss and makeup. The Iranians go home and give up nuclear ambitions? The world is a beautiful place.

2) Civil war turns the country into Bosnia (only a lot bigger and with oil) and the Shia ultimately win. 
US is shut out of region as a "player." 
Iran becomes regional nuclear power.
World oil market goes crazy causing US recession.

Throw in some of your own scenarios. 
Please spare me the "Mary Poppins" scenario. ie. The world will love and respect us.

I'm not looking for a flame war.
Really, do people who hate Bush have a plan?
BTW, I'm no Bush fan. I think he's an incompetent jerk.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: JM
EMAIL: jmuschel@hotmail.com
IP: 209.208.140.194
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 10:11:07 AM
The one thing I keep coming back to in my mind is that there are some people within the Bush admin who are likely to view the chaos in Iraq as a positive thing.

Guys like Wurmser, for example, have long advocated that our objective in the Middle East would be to encourage the predominance of tribal, clan and familial-based societies under limited (read: weak) governments.

For people who think like that, chaos in Iraq is a good thing: it leads to a fractious, weak government, one that, for example, is not able to prevent the implementation of the wonderful new PSAs for oil production (wonderful for the majors, that is), and one that is unable to pose a threat to our major regional allies.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: JM
EMAIL: jmuschel@hotmail.com
IP: 209.208.140.194
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 10:19:15 AM
graywolf writes: "Really, do people who hate Bush have a plan?"

It's far too simplistic, for one thing, to imply that those of us who reject Bush's foreign policy do so because we "hate" him.

Personally, I was upset that Bush won in 2000, but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and let him attempt to lead.  Clearly, he failed miserably.  So, my "hatred" of him is mainly related to his abysmal performance as President.

As for a plan, we could start with the regional "Concert of a Greater Middle East" suggested by Pat Lang, i.e., we initiate and support a long-term process of negotiation among the regional players.

Make no mistake, we've stirred the hornets' nest and they're not going back inside.

The main objective of our "plan" should not be to fool around with notions of military victory - that is no longer possible - but rather to begin to deal with the consequences of what we've unleashed.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 10:41:38 AM
Bush is banking the "success" of his 21,000 troop escalation on Maliki's ability to control Baghdad. Hasn't Bush already tried this and failed. What's different this time? Besides Sunni versus Shia, is Malaki able to deliver?

And what the hell is Bush doing attacking Iran's diplomatic mission in the Kurdish capital of Irbil? It's going to be open on American diplomats now. Worse, Bush wants to provoke war with Iran. This is incredibly dangerous and stupid!

<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070111/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070111/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 10:42:34 AM
Whoops, meant to say it will be open season on American diplomats.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 11:01:46 AM
Have to say Larry, as bad as things are in Iraq, things could get a whole lot worse if we go to war with Iran. That was the most scary part of Bush's speech last night, and it's not receiving enough attention.

Recommend everyone read Glenn Greenwald's post today: 
<a href="http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/01/presidents-intentions-towards-iran.html" rel="nofollow">http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/01/presidents-intentions-towards-iran.html</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 11:10:37 AM
The neocon chaos theory in Iraq has 2 stages:  first, the initial invasion and subsequent civil war allowed the Bush and Cheney cabal to loot the U.S. treasury.  Second, that pipeline is going dry as Americans have caught on (see Nov. elections), so now a stable government needs to be in place so the looting of Iraqi resources can commence.  Secure the Iraqi loot, then move to the next hapless country - rinse and repeat.  Of course, in their wake the neocons talk of freedom and Democracy, but instead they leave death and destruction and purple fingers.

Graywolf wants to know why we don't have a plan to counter Bush.   Reminds me of a friend who was about to file bankruptcy - her husband drove up in a new truck, which, of course, they could not afford.  When she told him they had to file bankruptcy, he flew into a rage, slapping her around, saying she should have stopped him from buying that truck.  It was all her fault. She filed bankruptcy then filed for divorce.  Bush and his cabal have made a mess of the world, and no secret plan is going to change that.    It's a reality which those who bought the lies must face.  
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Little Charlie Beckwith
EMAIL: 
IP: 75.68.13.108
URL: http://profile.typekey.com/scottfinnell/
DATE: 01/11/2007 11:20:43 AM
 Larry,
     I am completely frustrated with this whole mess.If a conventional army comes along side this insurgency the whole thing is lost.The way forward is to not make the same mistakes like history has showed us.Counter-insurgency operations means having small groups of highly trained men with balls the size of lemons acting on real time intelligence, with extreme and precise violence of action, either overtly or covertly. Now, do we want to waste anymore warriors in this CLUSTERFUCK?!? No way!!! But the Iraqis can and they will certainly have to. We need to go back to the "off shore" posture and go about this War on Islamic Facist with a doctrine of intelligence and extreme justice, operating ANYWHERE in the world that we see fit. With no footprint if need be. If that fails... BOMB 'EM WITH PIGS AND TOMATOES!!!
     Happy Hunting!

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/11/2007 12:27:46 PM
Condi being grilled by Obama right now on C-Span3.  Listen:
<a href="http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS" rel="nofollow">http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS</a>

(and rest of Senate For. Rel. committee)
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/11/2007 12:43:10 PM
+ SoD Gates and Pace today:

Thursday, Jan. 11
House Armed Services Committee Hearing on Iraq Policy Issues
On C-SPAN3 at 1pm ET

<a href="http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS" rel="nofollow">http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/11/2007 12:49:57 PM
First, Graywolf's asking US if WE have a plan is a cop-out. He's just trying to deflect responsibility for HIS war.  Not yours and mine.  It's incumbent on Graywolf to step up, for once, and take responsibility and give us HIS plan.

::::

Jezebel writes:  "Crackers is right. The voters gave Bush and the Democrats a mandate last November, which Bush obviously has not desire to adhere to. Question is: Will the Democrats? And no Nancy, a no-smoking rule in the House doesn't cut it. C'mon people show some spine for once."

FROM ALL I'VE READ, it's very complicated to write legislation that will not give Bush loopholes.  Bush can do workarounds to get the money and soldiers. The 2007 Pentagon budget was passed in 2006.  And even if he did so "illegally," it is veryhard to hold him to that.  Both the Senate and House are working very hard on this. Patience. The Democrats KNOW how much we want action on this but it won't be easy.  
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:04:23 PM
The Democrats aren't limited to denying Bush funds. They could also write legislation making escalation illegal. My lawyer uncle, who is a history buff, a voracious reader and whose opinion I respect, had this to say:

"Theodore Roosevelt used his powers as "commander in chief" to send  the Great White Fleet around the world when Congress had refused to  fund the excursion.

"Since the fleet was halfway around the world when it ran out of steam  [coal & funding], Congress was put in the position of having to fund  the remainder of the world tour.

"In this case, since Congress in 1998 or so enacted legislation to the effect that it is the policy of the US to effect "regime change" in Iran, Bush has all the political authority to engage in his foolish &  craven policies.

"Congress could pass bills rescinding that legislation [subject to presidential veto], & Congress could in fact make a joint resolution rescinding the October 2002 resolution authorizing military action with regard to Iraq.

"Since it is obvious that with regard to Iran, we have but to wait for the maturing of the next generation for the Ayatollahs to be retired into a footnote in history, any invasion of or military action against Iran would cement the Ayatollah's rule for the next few  generations. After all, the US supported Iraq in the 1980's in the Iran-Iraq war, and would be perceived as perennially at odds with Iran.

"Consequently, I am forced to conclude that the latter is precisely what the Bush Administration wants, to wit: permanent enemies. As Stalin said, he did not need friends, he needed enemies against which he could carry out any policy, domestic or foreign."
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 192.245.246.12
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:15:32 PM
Larry,
This is going to be a very, very long, very difficult year with little to no happiness in it. I suggest a vacation in Belize, with Pina Coladas, Monte Negro's, and a plates of wonderful food.

Oh, and a couple shots of tequila a night.

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Marlowe
EMAIL: chris.marlowe@yahoo.com
IP: 71.135.176.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:17:54 PM
The United States has become the Soviet Union.

We all know what happened to the Soviet Union.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Crackers
EMAIL: danenw@yahoo.com
IP: 67.189.34.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:27:20 PM
"Really, do people who hate Bush have a plan?"

You know we do, but you choose to keep repeating this mythical question whle keeping your head stuck firmly up your ass. At one time, this passed as clever, but now it passes as gas.

BushCo started this make-believe war. There were few terrorists in Iraq; Saddam was not a threat to the U.S.; there were no WMDs. And don't patronize us with the "I hate Bush too" bullcrap. Just ASKING if we have a plan betrays your idiocy.

You want a solution to a war that is orchestrated by multi-national corporations? How about, for starters, that we focus on the profiteers? Any corporation that has profited from this war, well, the asses of CEOs/VPs get thrown into prison, and the key tossed away. That's just for starters. Goodbye Exxon CEO; goodbye Halliburton CEO; goodbye Darth Chaney; goodbye to any number of grossly paid CEO profiteers.

Then we run this "war" the way it should be run: We have a draft of all able-bodied men AND women, and all of them get sent to Iraq. We RAISE taxes, not lower them. We ration gas. We focus on the able-bodied chickenhawks on TV, and demand they get sent to Iraq, where they can cover the needless deaths of our soldiers.

There is no end to the list items, so I'll stop here. Just save your fucking stupid questions for some other audience, like Fox News watchers.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: graywolf
EMAIL: graywolf175@hotmail.com
IP: 71.169.137.150
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:49:26 PM
I really wanted a serious response. What do we do?

Instead, I seem to be getting raving.

For example...
Crackers said:
"You want a solution to a war that is orchestrated by multi-national corporations? How about, for starters, that we focus on the profiteers? Any corporation that has profited from this war, well, the asses of CEOs/VPs get thrown into prison, and the key tossed away. That's just for starters. Goodbye Exxon CEO; goodbye Halliburton CEO; goodbye Darth Chaney; goodbye to any number of grossly paid CEO profiteers."

That's not a possible solution. That's throwing a tantrum.
I don't always agree with Larry, but he's clever and seems to think to about the problem.
Most of you seem to revel in stomping you little feet and shreiking.

Flame away...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Donovan Fraser
EMAIL: DonovanFraser@comcast.net
IP: 67.171.164.131
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 02:04:36 PM
I agree with Crackers. Do we or anyone a plan? Fuck no!! there is no plan to un break  what has already be blown to shit. Dumb ass started this war now you want to shift blame to the millions who said this would be a catastrophe .Oh that's rich!!!

here's my idiotic plan. Take the 500 billion bucks we ARE going to spend in the near future there and hand it out to the poor people of Iraq with an apology note for destroying their country for a lie and get the fuck out ! 

next I'd remove FOXNEWS from the airwaves and make overt propaganda illegal.. but first Hannity and O"reily would be sent to guard the streets of baghdad.

Make war profiteering a treasonous offense..

then investigate and hang all those responsible for twisting intel to fit their desires for war. 

start spending more money to educate our country about there rest of the world out there so this shit can't be pulled on us ever again..

the list can go on forever..
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Crackers
EMAIL: danenw@yahoo.com
IP: 67.189.34.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 02:55:55 PM
Graywolf:

You ARE an asshole. 

Our country is on the verge of an economic and cultural meltdown, and all you can do is ask lame questions and pretend like you're some kind of intellectual who only wants the pure truth.

It's jerks like you who THINK there is a rational solution to irrational acts of war. Try putting something different in your pipe and smoking it.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: graywolf
EMAIL: graywolf175@hotmail.com
IP: 71.169.137.150
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 03:23:06 PM
Crackers said:
"verge of an economic and cultural meltdown"

Is there a sky or sun in your world?

Unemployment is 4.5% and the DOW is currently at a new high (12.523, as I write this).
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 198.16.9.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 03:39:44 PM
Graywolf, 

When you finally decide that yes, you are in a very deep hole, and you want to get out of said hole, the first and foremost thing to do is stop digging.

The American public's plan is very simple: We want the Bush administration to stop digging. Very simple, very elegant, and immediately applicable.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: graywolf
EMAIL: graywolf175@hotmail.com
IP: 71.169.137.150
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 03:46:21 PM
And then what.........??
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/11/2007 04:05:09 PM
Keith Olbermann's doing a Special Commentary tonight.  From his newsletter:

President Bush's decision to deploy 21,500 additional troops to Iraq drew fierce opposition Thursday from congressional Democrats and some Republicans - among them Sen. Chuck Hagel, who called it "the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam." The Nebraska Republican vowed to "resist" the plan, but the Senate's top Republican, Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., threatened a filibuster to block any legislation expressing disapproval of Bush's strategy. <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16579285/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16579285/</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 192.245.246.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 05:02:35 PM
Graywolf,

The first step to peace in Iraq is for us to stop pulling the trigger.
The second step to peace is to admit that Bush really f~cked up badly, and to make amends to the millions of Iraqi's he has screwed on a daily basis for the past three years because of his stupidity.
Perhaps having Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld stand trial in Iraq for crimes against humanity...hmm, well, I'll settle for the Hague.
At the very least, such a gesture on the part of the United States would be seen by the world as our show of humility that we're really on board with being nice guys, and not the village idiot with a machine-gun.
The last step to peace is to actually go after the f~ck's who got us all riled up in the first place who, oddly enough, are not Iraqi's but Saudi's living in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Now, I'll admit, this all seems rather drool, and pie in the sky, but on the other hand, less people die which is really what I'm all about.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Phillip
EMAIL: philliparmstrong@rogers.com
IP: 199.198.254.100
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 05:10:58 PM
I believe some of the best units in the Iraqi Army that are probably needed in Baghdad are Kurds? How will the Shias and Sunnis react if Kurds begin attacking Shias and Sunnis is Baghdad?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 05:57:40 PM
I think Bush has so thoroughly surrounded himself with yes men that he is impervious to actual information.  If people on blogs can figure out the problem and he can't that says it all.  

 graywolf-  your a great example of how rush limbaugh has destroyed debate in this country.  instead of actually reading this thing you go "do the democrats have a plan?" on cue.  a tired stale cliche said with the utmost confidence.  

luckily for us despite the humanitarian disaster this escalation will unleash, it is the final nail in the GOP's coffin.  the dems will be running on the "we;re not Bush" campaign till 2050.  and who'd want to relive these years?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: graywolf
EMAIL: graywolf175@hotmail.com
IP: 71.169.129.226
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 07:11:57 PM
I read all of these comments. I still don't see a  workable course for securing US interests in the Near East.

Lots of impeachment "demands" and "try Bush and Cheney at the Hague"; ain't gonna happen.

If we don't surge and instead draw down in the next 6 months, what happens?

My bet (a lock, actually) is $5 a gallon for gas within 3 -5 months. Then, an oil-induced recession.

Since I own a bunch of oil stocks I make out like a bandit -short term.
Long term; not good.

I'll bet most of you can't weather an oil-recession and....would blame Bush.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Tap Duncan
EMAIL: tapduncan@aol.com
IP: 64.12.116.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 07:37:34 PM
It all comes down to, are you ready for this, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL, OIL.  Shrub, Cheney, Halliburton, etc.,etc., are all about enriching their pockets.  These sons of bitches don't know the first thing about leadership. Read "The Biggest Brother" if you want to know about leadership. Hang Tough!!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Little Charlie Beckwith
EMAIL: 
IP: 75.68.13.108
URL: http://profile.typekey.com/scottfinnell/
DATE: 01/11/2007 08:06:06 PM
 Grey Wolf,
       You are not a team player, this thing has blown up like a watergate gone to pasture. We know that the POTUS has "cooked the books" in order to get us into this war and the best possible thing we can do is "Woodward" his sorry ass!!! We need to get really smart about this or else! Do you have any idea why Larry started this post? I'll refresh your memory, VAL PLAME!!! He was not and is still not very happy about that! Acountability, that's what neeeded here. This incompedence has cost way to much,not to mention the fact our screwed up standing in the world. 
     SON GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS! PLEASE!!! 
 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ra_balke
EMAIL: ra_balke@hotmail.com
IP: 65.61.101.224
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 03:05:22 AM
They are not trying to stop war, they are trying to start war !

The goal is to widen the  currant war, into a broad Middle East war, which will involve the Western World's armies going into the region, to destroy the Moslems who are  last threat to Zoinist Israel. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Carl Street
EMAIL: carl_street@cjstreet.com
IP: 24.4.214.45
URL: http://cjstreet.com
DATE: 01/14/2007 03:16:00 AM
Let's give the terrorists what they want...

Only math-challenged idiots believe that "terrorists" are a threat to them personally.  Actually, they are only a threat to our "leaders" and their corporate friends -- and then ONLY because these people spend all their time pillaging, stealing and raping other people's countries.

If we REALLY want to be safe all we have to do is bundle up these jerks and deliver them to the "terrorists" and tell them they can do with them whatever they want with our blessings!  Immediately gas would drop to 30 cents a gallon; we could forget all this spying and security crap; and the world would once again hail the USA as a landmark of freedom; and we would all be considered heroes. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: M. L. LEMMON
EMAIL: mrk_lemmon@yahoo.com
IP: 207.69.137.200
URL: http://www.smokerszen.com
DATE: 01/14/2007 05:56:23 AM
The purposeful inaction of the Democrats and the bungling corrupt actions of the Republicans are designed to make you more  agreeable to accept the New World Order as your savior. North American Union here we come!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: rolo_tommasi
EMAIL: rolo_tommasi@yahoo.com
IP: 67.101.147.198
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 10:04:33 AM
Bush has no combat experience.  He also went awol went in the national guard and went on a cocaine binge.  He is also an idiot.  Why, with those qualifications do we hang on his every word and even listen to what he is saying?  We should run his ass out of the whitehouse for incompetence along with cheney and rice.  The man clearly does not know what the fuck he's doing.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: James Jones
EMAIL: Rodal_01@gmx.de
IP: 89.51.247.240
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 10:12:49 AM
If you imagine how far worse things might be in 2 years from now, an economic collapse of the US economy, a very weakened dollar, China breathing down our backs while invading Taiwan, North Korea launching a nuclear strike against Japan, Russia placing sanctions on the Europeans (Oil and gas), America engaged in Iraq, Iran , Syria, and elsewhere with unsustainable debt levels, ....then it only seems logical that the Empire is breathing it´s final breath today... America is finished militarily, it cannot take on the whole  world, it  has created  enemies everywhere and resentment among former allies.  I forsee a decades long struggle to maintain it´s lost and incresingly weaker global hegemony, the short lived notion of an empire is impossible in a multi-polar world.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Jaye
EMAIL: jfele@aol.com
IP: 64.12.116.11
URL: http://rense.com
DATE: 01/14/2007 10:35:35 AM
 "War is a Racket" Haliburton, KBR, Boeing, Lockheed, GD,GM, Even Smirky is still getting a fat paycheck from Haliburton. Marine Corp General Smedley Butler knew what he was talking about!!!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Steve Naidamast
EMAIL: blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com
IP: 64.105.73.95
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 10:43:58 AM
"Enough of the Terrorism Canard"

I couldn't agree more with your statements in this recent post.

The problem is however, not that Bush doesn't get it, its that he never will.  The president, by all acoounts, is very seriously mentally ill, driven by a group of fanatical idealogues who though may not be insane by the classic definition hold insane belief systems.  The result is no amount of rhetoric, excellent essays, or petitions to this administration will carry any weight.

What's more, the secterian strife in Iraq was in fact initiated by the US through  our implementation of the "Salvador Option" which was carrired out months ago and initiated many of the "death squads" the media now claims are the source of all the violence in that nation.

Initially, both the Sunnis and the Shia were slowly coming to terms with each other which is exactly what the US didn't want.

The current chaos in Iraq is in fact the plan and it is fostered with tremendous Israeli backing which can be easily attested to with a reading of the paper, "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties" by Oded Yinon.  This paper will make you wretch but it is the basis for a lot of what is occurring in Iraq today...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: FreddyFender
EMAIL: hundredthmonkee@yahoo.com
IP: 67.150.163.47
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 10:50:16 AM
Thanks for all the posts.
'Tis the corrupting nature of government. Too much power in
too few hands. I like the Bush-Neocon phenomena.He's the prime example of why the human species needs to get over the idea of Government and Media. Hopefully we learn the lesson this time without smoking the planet. "He who sins becomes a slave to sin" the carpenter said. When we lied on 09/11/2001 we became slaves.
 Freddy
 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: JB Hickock
EMAIL: Hyper_individualist@yahoo.com
IP: 24.121.179.99
URL: http://www.infowars.com
DATE: 01/14/2007 12:05:18 PM
It is disheartening that collectivism has taken captive so many peoples' minds.  The problem is hierarchically directed collectivism.  When people accept elites running their life and programming the society in which they live, nothing good is accomplished, unless you count the massive profit and self-aggrandizement of a minority as positive.  

The goal of the elite that hijacked the US sometime around 1913 has always been the break the last bastion of freedom in order to create a global slave grid.  Now that Bush has fulfilled his elite backers' plans of causing the world to hate the US, the coup de grace of the limited constitutional Republic draws nigh.  

The fact that most people are still trapped in the false and Hegelian pattern of cyclically rah-rahing political factions like a football game only hastens our demise, and indeed the total enslavement of the entire human race.

What will it take to cause the flicker of recognition that the geopolitical-socioeconomic chess game is a whole lot bigger than puppet Bush and the neocons?  There is a global government run by a network of criminal elites.  Their goal is to drive people deeper into the bondage of the group-think of collectivism so that the global prison grid can be built and fortified around the entire human race.  

Stop being destracted!  Stop advocating the initiation of force over individuals.  Stop believing that the individual must be made subordinate to the group--because the IRON RULE OF OLIGARCHY will ALWAYS take over your groups no matter how meticulously planned and benevolent they may seem.  The individual is supreme and is the building block of civilization.  Government must be limited as much as possible.  All emotion driven utopianist babble about the need for altruism to be compelled as a duty the individual owes to the state must be abandoned.  The solution to most of the world's problems is not more centralization of power, but less--in other words freedom and neutrality.  Washington said it well in his farewell address--don't play favorites, don't get entangled in foreign affairs.

The idea that prosperity comes from the forcible extraction and redistribution of individually produced wealth derived from honest labor under the direction of a hierarchically controlled system of collectivism leads to nothing but death and enslavement.  Hierarchical collectivism is the chief thread of malevolence that runs throughout all recorded history.  Human beings are too inherently evil to be trusted with too much centralized power, which is based on force over individuals.  

It's much better to have a lot of small time egotistical opportunists running around than one monolithic control grid, and that's why the argument that individual sovereignty will lead to anarchy is such a canard.  WE ALREADY HAVE ANARCHY WITH ELITES RUNNING OUR LIVES!  They act with impunity as elites always have.  They act not out of compassion or love for the group they rule over, but out of malevolent egoism--megalomania.  

LEARN FROM HISTORY YOU FOOLS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE FOR THE HUMAN RACE!  
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Merek
EMAIL: merek@hialoha.net
IP: 66.248.53.77
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 12:44:01 PM
Seems commentators on IRAQ have missed the basic reason for a four year occupation, The business of
this oil war was the "Destablization of a country for profit"! I was informed of this activity in 1968 Viet Nam by my CIA
supervisor. The longer we sit in Iraq preventing any stablization we have insured that world oil prices remain peak by  preventing a steady Iraqi pipeline oil flow, this Administration has planned for failure by placing only enough troops to aggitate islamic fanatics but not enough to secure as occupiers. An intentional effort that has seen oil price profits unheard of for  OPEC ,the Saudis and Bush's big oil 
handlers,(read VP)the longer the fighting continues, the more windfall profits accrue.
"War is good business if you don't have to invest your ruling class son or daughter.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Bill Endres
EMAIL: billew113@sbcglobal.net
IP: 69.221.144.132
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 01:00:11 PM
This civil war that we started is being fought by people who are doing exactly what we would do if someone invaded our country. The media keeps using the demeaning word "insurgent" to describe them. They are Patriots in their own country and should be referred to as that.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: je-sus
EMAIL: je-sus@hotmail.com
IP: 58.84.111.15
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 01:17:41 PM
It's all part of the big plan you fools, don't you get it? Foolish Earthlings.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Will S
EMAIL: foot@hotmail.com
IP: 216.221.81.98
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 02:36:05 PM
Oh, I'm sure the Shia have forgotten just who's country supported Saddam's Sunni death squads for all those years. The same country responsible for the sanctions , nukes and WMD's that weren't there.
At least the American's were right about one thing, the Iraqi people are throwing flowers. On American soldiers graves.

A joke going around Israel:
What did the American soldier say after he liberated the Iraqi girl.
Gotta match?

If sick jokes like that are going around the Middle-East, then America is truly finished in Iraq.


They will from now on remember you as the people who killed them with unjust sanctions, poisoned their land with DU, tortured , killed and humiliated them in your prison camps. Raped their children, shot their children in the head while they prayed ,planted bombs in their unsuspecting people cars. And now woth all your arrogance, are   threatening to leave them to suffer in the hell the neo-jerks have created, unless the people who are taking the brunt of the whole war, stand up and fight the crime wave when they can't even put food on their tables or run hydro to keep the sick and injured alive in the hospitals. And they know it's just to make you happy so you can have your precious oil. 

America's are truly ass-holes.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Marlowe
EMAIL: chris.marlowe@yahoo.com
IP: 71.135.176.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 04:25:41 PM
As an American, I'd have to agree with what Will S says.

In a democracy, people get the government we deserve. We got Bush, and we deserve him. He was appointed once, but he was re-elected the second time. Even though, I did not vote for him, the American people spoke...

American democracy is what I call lowest-common denominator government. With Bush, we have shown the world how low our democracy can go.

I would just add to Will S that there are a lot of decent people in America who do not approve of this government. 

That's why many are becoming Canadians.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Fletch
EMAIL: fletchemon@cox.net
IP: 68.224.233.86
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 05:17:37 PM
The methodology of combat can be complex and often times unknown to the general public. I know because I was a Senior Non-Commissioned Officer (E-7) stationed at Ft. Bragg, NC..
The Terrorist Network has been growing for a long time and since our society WAS one of "Don't Act Until You Are Acted Upon" various groups formed and then "Acted" or Attacked us on OUR OWN SOIL-9/11.
IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT??????
I DON'T THINK SO!!!
We MUST ERRADICATE TERRORISM AROUND THE WORLD. Not just in Iraq and NO the United States Presence DID NOT FUEL the Terrorists or provide for more of them.
They have hated us for a long time and EVEN BEFORE IRAQ!!!
Terrorism has been around for many centuries and only until they attacked us on 9/11 did The People of The United States finally wake up.
I would much rather TAKE THE FIGHT TO THEM than to have it in MY OWN BACKYARD!
Wouldn't YOU?
If YOU CAN DO A BETTER JOB THAN THE PRESIDENT, THEN DAMMIT DO IT AND IF YOU CAN'T SHUT UP AND STOP WHINING WHILE THE REAL HEROES OF THIS WORLD (The SOLDIERS-The Fine Men and Women of OUR ARMED FORCES) are going RIGHT NOW IN HARM'S WAY so that you can sit there and read this!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Rick Costello
EMAIL: rc@phoenixpwb.com
IP: 69.19.14.15
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 05:26:09 PM
What ever happened to the oath our military (enlisted & officers alike) had to swear "to protect & defend the Constitution from ALL enemies, foreign & DOMESTIC"?  They don't swear to obey the Fuhrer - they swear to protect & defend the Constitution.  If the officer corp can't see the undermining of our Republic by the subversion almost daily by these 'leaders' than I, for one, am sickened by their lack of duty, honor & country.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: trueman
EMAIL: no@spam.it
IP: 205.212.75.123
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 06:19:03 PM
Fletch you idiot any 4th grader could do a better job than Bush!!!

I would too  but im NOT ALLOWEDD TO!@!!!!!!!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Marlowe
EMAIL: chris.marlowe@yahoo.com
IP: 71.135.176.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 06:26:15 PM
Hey Fletch--

Duty calls. 

Time to live by your own words and volunteer for the surge in Iraq. Your experience will come in handy. See how many terrorists you can get before they get you.

We'll remember you...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mark F
EMAIL: Willylo11723@cs.com
IP: 172.136.39.34
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 07:55:30 PM
Terrorism, Hussien, Democrats, Rosie/Trump, Hillary/Barack, global warming, Iraq War, all distractions. As the mass media creates illusions, Big Brother clamps down by opening our mail, suspending habeas corpus, stealing private lands, banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon, rigging elections, conducting warrantless wiretaps and starting wars based on blatant lies.  Soon, the sinking of an Aircraft Carrier(by Mossad) will occur and the US will 'retaliate' against Iran.  Which AIPAC-lobbying country benefit's from that?
Final link (before Google Books bends to gov't demands and drops the title):
<a href="http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0" rel="nofollow">http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.154.72.211
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 08:34:13 PM
ra-balke & steve naidamast, Arial Sharon told GWB this invasion would bring more negative blow-back than it was worth. The invasion of Iraq was an American Neo-con idea, NOT an Isralie plan. The Saudis opposed it as did the Jordanians, Egyptians, et al.  Graywolf, you sound freaked out, what's the matter did you buy all those oil stocks when the price was sky high?            
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.33.79
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 07:48:45 AM
Larry,

I talked once before about evil henchmen and the blame game. A few dumb Americans actually believe that is was Saddam, his sons, a few close relatives who behaved torturously. All that was needed was to eject those guys and the known Third World is safe.

Larry, you know, I know and the gatepost knows that's a crock of horseshit.The very guys that Maliki is using were some of Saddam's go getters. Surprisingly most of the middle rank Nazis who "did nothing", were "opressed into their roles" carried on as normal in the whitewashed West Germany. Saddam apparently had a big....BIG police force. And funnily I'd give you $100 to your $, that included all types, shia, shiite, sunni, pakistani. Anyone who liked the sound of the snapping spine and swore allegeance, I'll bet was in. So I have sincerely wondered how much control, with all the propoganda, Saddam had over his people. I don't think there was much in the way of public funds, but other than that I think local cultures of the police would have varied from place to place. If they were pro Shia then thats the way things went, of course in the name of Saddam.

That's why I think we saw such a quick escalation into civil war. The infrastructure was in place. Saddam was arbitrary. {I think he was bumped off long ago...between me and you}.

Onto your bit about Bush's strategy. You asked a simple question - What is Bush trying to do? I'll give you a simple answer.

Iraq and Iran sound pretty similar. You take away the N and the Q you get IRA. Now, all the folks out there are a bit nasal. So they probably say Iraq and Iran pretty much the same. You know, to some one like Bush's sense of hearing. So hear's my guess, he intends to rename Iraq: Iran. Or probably better still: Iranq. Now there is an alterior motive. Those nukey weapons, they say, are pretty big and well some of the accuracy of past strikes have been, well....questionable. So imagine, with all that land our fella couldn't miss. Wham bang, thankyou mam. 

Alternatively Bush may be intenting to colonise the moon with Sunnis. My mate Buzz, promises me its a very nice place - scout's honour ;)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who 
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.225.170
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 02:42:58 PM
Citizen X, curious, what gives you the idea the NO QUARTER blog would be a good venue for your neo-natzi jive?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who 
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.225.170
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 02:54:49 PM
Citizen X, looks like you got edited...can't find you.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: keeroc
EMAIL: bush@aol.com
IP: 216.140.123.24
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 05:03:03 PM
Graywolf thinks the economy is booming.  the stock market took six years to inch back up to where it was when Graywolf's heroes took over the Whitehouse in 2000.  Unemployment at 4.5%is a misleading statistic - that is based on new unemployment claims and does not count anyone put out of work who hasn't been able to find a new job. i.e. off the temporary unemployment insurance and you are no longer counted.
Graywolf is a neocon wannabe but doesn't have the intelligence to understand the arguments or the capital to play with the big boys. How pathetic that people like him get the power to vote. And the Neocon - Gingrich- Bush - Cheney Republicans have in the course of 12 years -  hijacked America and are finishing by destroying the world.  Oh yeah Graywolf we'll just stick with them till someone can convince an idiot( you ) that they have a better plan. hahahaha
-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Biden Threatens "Constitutional Confrontation" re Iran
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/11/2007 01:17:55 PM
-----
BODY:
Sen. Joe Biden just informed Secretary of State Condeleezza Rice that, should the Bush administration attempt to cross over into Iran without Congressional approval, such action will provoke a "constitutional confrontation."  

Sen. Biden is the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

(I am listening to the Senate Foreign Relations committee hearing on Iraq, via C-Span3.  I think it's about to conclude. I thought his remark so significant you needed to know right away, rather than wait for a news story to appear.)

UPDATE: C-Span and Congress are apparently unable to provide Podcasts or easily located audio/video recordings of hearings, at least that I could find until I <em>cleverly</em> clicked on <a href="http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp">the <strong>>></strong> symbols next to "Recent Programs,"</a> and espied -- it's several items down the list -- the <a href="http://www.c-span.org/videoarchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,">video of the Foreign Relations hearing</a> with SoS Rice. <em>(It's good citizenship exercise to make people have to hunt to view concluded hearings.) </em>Condi's grilling reairs on C-Span2 TV at 4:07AM ET, but not before then (?). <a href="http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/schedule.csp">See other listings</a>.
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
Sen. Biden further told Secretary Rice that Bush's escalation plan is a "tragic mistake."  Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) inserted a remark that the Marines have already been told that their stays in Iraq will be extended.  Sen. Biden reiterated that every senator supports the troops and is amazed by the "overwhelming commitment" of the troops.

::::::::::::::::::::

<strong>UPDATE:

I'm adding the contact info I posted a few days ago.  You know the drill.</strong>

<u><a href="http://foreign.senate.gov/">SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS  COMMITTEE</a></u>
Chair:  <a href="http://biden.senate.gov/">Joe Biden</a> (D-DE)
Phones: 202-224-3953	(majority) | 202-224-4651 (minority)
Faxes: 202-224-5011 (majority) | 202-224-0836 (minority)
Dirksen Senate Office Building 450, Washington, D.C. 20510 

<blockquote>Via <a href="http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/committee_list.cgi?site=ctc">VISI.COM</a>: A full list of <a href="http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/newcommittee.cgi?site=ctc&lang=&commcode=sforeign_relations">all current members of the Senate Foreign Relations committee</a>, and their contact information, including e-mail forms.</blockquote>
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Lizbeth Marcs
EMAIL: liz.marcs@gmail.com
IP: 63.118.235.2
URL: http://liz-marcs.livejournal.com/235635.html
DATE: 01/11/2007 01:53:17 PM
from President Bush is Insane
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: village idiot
EMAIL: auinterest@yahoo.com
IP: 15.252.0.75
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 02:18:53 PM
Good for him!  It's about f*king time the congress grew some testicles.  Should have been threatened a looooong time ago.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/11/2007 02:28:06 PM
I put this up at Daily Kos, where there are over 100 comments so far, with all kinds of opinions and reactions.

<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/11/132431/340" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/11/132431/340</a>

LOTS more on Jim Webb's questions for Rice today.  (I missed his questioning, and will be checking C-Span 1 and 2 regularly in hopes they reair the entire hearing.)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/11/2007 02:56:26 PM
Iran? Just had dinner with a ranking Navy Officer from one of our gulf bound Carrier Groups 
by hilage 
Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 09:49:12 PM PST

<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/11/03044/7710" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/11/03044/7710</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Daily Kos ... AGAIN? what kind of rubes are we?
EMAIL: anon@anon.net
IP: 216.220.193.132
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 02:58:13 PM
who the hell cares about daily kos

all that site is doing is making money for moulitsas and the political campaign consultants he keeps on his staff
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 03:45:42 PM
If Biden grows a pair, I might actually start taking the guy seriously. On the other hand, telling Junior Bush he's not allowed to do something is a sure-fire way to provoke a temper tantrum. It might provoke an invasion of Iran, even if he wasn't already planning it.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 198.16.9.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 03:48:06 PM
My fear is that it is too little, too late.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Fade 
EMAIL: zentropymind@yahoo.com
IP: 205.209.224.130
URL: http://houserisingsons.blogspot.com
DATE: 01/11/2007 03:48:59 PM
We need some REAL bi-partisan effort here. The Dems cannot stop this madman alone. Hopefully more Repubs will come out, ala Hagel, to refute Bush's insanity.

It's time to Impeach this bastard. At first, I thought it would be a waste of effort, but this President has CLEARLY lost his damn mind.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Cee
EMAIL: stpwnow@aol.com
IP: 152.163.100.204
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 04:18:10 PM
Bush has been using the MEK in Iran for at LEAST  a year!
I'm sick of the denial and idiocy displayed by the pols!

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 04:52:45 PM
I'm sorry Susan, but I believe Biden about as much as I do Hagel, Specter and almost everyone else who claims to oppose this administration. They're all bark and little bite.

Huffington's Mark Levine best expresses my thoughts: "Why are the vast majority of citizens, including those who voted the Republicans out of both houses of Congress, and including the Democratic legislators whom we chose to replace them with, sitting by and allowing this to happen? Sure, there will be a "symbolic" vote against further deployments, but nothing will be done actually to stop the President. Instead, as the editor in chief of one of the major inside the beltway publications explained to me yesterday, the Democrats are perfectly happy to sit back and let Bush bleed America dry in order to avoid being blamed for losing Iraq in 2008. They, and the American people who are doing nothing to stop them, will let thousands of more troops die, wars spread to ever more countries, all to achieve the greatest political capital for use in the next presidential election.

"Behind this calculus is the the belief that the more American soldiers that die in the next two years and the more of our tax dollars that disappear, the greater the chance that Americans will vote for the Democratic ticket come November 2008 because they will blame the President. This may be true, but it is a spineless and immoral truth that thoroughly blemishes a Democratic Party already blackened with guilt for its enabling of the invasion to begin with, not to mention the wholesale war on America's most basic liberties and Freedoms in the last six years.

"The American people are ultimately, and now primarily, responsible for this reality, and we seem not to care nearly enough to do something to fight it."

<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-levine/george-bush-is-a-psychopa_b_38443.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-levine/george-bush-is-a-psychopa_b_38443.html</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 05:52:01 PM
Iran didn't do anything.  This is insane.  Most of the ied's are from the munitions dumps we didn't guard.  If you want to blame another country for the insurgency, Saudi arabia would make a lot more sense.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: mindvoid
EMAIL: reihmheir@earthlink.net
IP: 71.250.185.251
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 07:17:24 PM
We already have special forces in Iran. There are 3 or 4 (I lost count)attack carrier groups floating nearby doing war games. More are on the way. We have been planning and propagandizing for war with Iran for years. Most Democratic party leaders support regime change in Iran. The honorable Senator's threat of confrontation is irrelevant unless he is willing to confront Mr. Bush and Mr. Chaney NOW to stop war with Iran and save our army in Iraq.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Marlowe
EMAIL: chris.marlowe@yahoo.com
IP: 71.135.176.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 07:27:55 PM
Looks like they're cooking the intel and planting the stories already:

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16582063/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16582063/</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jimbobuddy
EMAIL: jjaycott@msn.com
IP: 63.231.164.156
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 07:30:26 PM
Hey,does CSpan podcast?    Also ,dont mean to get OT , but I was sitting next to a young Iraqi man on the airplane, last week and we chatted about his take on the whole mess. One thing that I was curious about, and that he and I discussed , was the extent to which the notion that, ' they've(the shia,and the sunni) been killing each other for 1500 years' is actually true, or not. To me, this line of thinking is a thinly veiled attempt to assuage our collective conscience of the consequences of this national disaster. His experience is that they've rarely conflicted like this. Anyway, just wanted to explore that unspoken assumption.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Palolo lolo
EMAIL: lyndenmcphee@yahoo.com
IP: 72.253.0.234
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 07:47:05 PM
Does anyone know what legal
entity has authority to arrest
the Prez? Seriously. Obviously,they don't care about anyone except themselves,so why should we expect them to change? Bush is
going to run out the clock,unless arrested and
impeached.So once again,who arrests him?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/11/2007 07:56:50 PM
"Hey,does CSpan podcast?"

I don't think so.  Nor does the Senate.  They offer live audio of the hearings.

 I've been trying and trying to find the audio/video of this morning's hearing and am so far striking out.

I've checked C-Spans "TV Schedule" (ha!) several times and haven't found reruns of the hearing listed.  

I guess we're just a poor third-world country and we can't afford fancy stuff like Podcasts.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 69.59.206.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 08:58:19 PM
arrest and impeach, cheney and bush at the same time, or we are doomed to their nukular love affair.

if pelosi doesn't take over and rule by a mandate from the house of representatives as the constitution calls for,  then we have no business calling this a country or planning for too many tomorrows

they had better pull the military back now,  as the private armies and police just don't bode well for this republic in peril.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: mark
EMAIL: mark@nowhere.better.org
IP: 24.18.164.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 12:01:27 AM
what do you people smoke?
-----

PING:
TITLE: The Day of Reckoning Draws Near
URL: http://www.reconstitution.us/seren/archives/1885-The-Day-of-Reckoning-Draws-Near.html
IP: 72.29.90.43
BLOG NAME: Reconstitution
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:02:06 PM
As Reconstitution stalwart ascap_scab reported yesterday, El Shrubbo is determined to start a conflict with Iran-a conflict I do not believe this country can survive intact.

As we all know, Chimpy appears to be (as I have pointed out many times) comple
-----
PING:
TITLE: The Day of Reckoning Draws Near
URL: http://www.reconstitution.us/seren/archives/1885-The-Day-of-Reckoning-Draws-Near.html
IP: 72.29.90.43
BLOG NAME: Reconstitution
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:11:37 PM
As Reconstitution stalwart ascap_scab reported yesterday, El Shrubbo is determined to start a conflict with Iran-a conflict I do not believe this country can survive intact.

As we all know, Chimpy appears to be (as I have pointed out many times) comple
-----

--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Bush Tries Again: Syria, Iran & Lebanon
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/11/2007 07:37:30 PM
-----
BODY:
<em>By SusanUnPC:</em> When at first you can't succeed (Iraq, 2003-Present; Lebanon, 2006-Present; New Orleans, 2005-Present), try, try again.Keith Olbermann said tonight in his <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16583889/">Special Commentary</a>, "Bush's strategy fails because it depends on his credibility." But nobody, so far, has stopped this incompetent ignoramus:

<strong>FRIDAY UPDATE: </strong> "<a href="http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001871.php">Note from Flynt Leverett: Most Important Parts of Bush Speech About Iran -- Not Iraq</a>," at <em>Washington Note</em>: "... the administration is laying the rhetorical and operational foundations for implementing a presidential decision to initiate military operations against Iran. No wonder the White House wants Hillary* and me to shut up." (<em>Susan's Note:</em> Leverett, a former CIA and Bush administration National Security Council senior official, and his wife Hillary wrote the widely publicized <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/22/opinion/22precede.html?ex=1168750800&en=ba85b0b9d0bcf81c&ei=5070"><em>NYT</em> op-ed</a>, "What We Wanted to Tell You About Iran," that the White House forced the CIA to redact even though Leverett had already published a longer version elsewhere without censorship.)  ALSO, <a href="http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001871.php">adds</a> Steve Clemons: "Eason Jordan has a <a href="http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/post/683/Bushs_Iraq_Plan_Mission_Impossible">useful graph by graph analysis</a> of the Bush speech up at <em><a href="http://www.iraqslogger.com/">IraqSlogger</a>.</em> He is on same page as <em>TWN</em> on 'hints' of attacks against Iran and Syria." (<em>Susan's Note:</em> Eason Jordan, formerly with CNN, began <em>IraqSlogger</em> recently to provide a single-site source on all things Iraq.)

THURSDAY NIGHT: <strong>Did the President Declare "Secret War" Against Syria and Iran?</strong>, <a href="http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001869.php">Steve Clemons</a>, <em>The Washington Note</em>, January 11, 2007:

-----
EXTENDED BODY:
<blockquote>Washington intelligence, military and foreign policy circles are abuzz today with speculation that the President, yesterday or in recent days, sent a secret Executive Order to the Secretary of Defense and to the Director of the CIA to launch military operations against Syria and Iran.

The President may have started a new secret, informal war against Syria and Iran without the consent of Congress or any broad discussion with the country. ... (<a href="http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001869.php">Read all</a>, which includes excerpts from Biden's remarks at today's grilling of Condi.)</blockquote>

<strong>CIA Gets the Go-Ahead to Fight Hizbullah</strong>, via <a href="http://joshualandis.com/blog/?p=144">Joshua Landis</a>, <em>Syria Comment</em>, January 10th, 2007:

<blockquote><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=:ePkh8BM9E2IF2mHAQoItRgKqP5NeR2VVu_U3hWt8fDBZDQBXDQ8m/0-0&fp=45a5cd835674ac0d&ei=aC6lRdfDKYP2owLt7Nn0Dg&url=http%3A//www.judeoscope.ca/breve.php3%3Fid_breve%3D3039&cid=1112582099">UK <em>Telegraph</em></a>

"The Central Intelligence Agency has been authorised to take covert action against Hizbollah as part of a secret plan by President George W. Bush to help the Lebanese government prevent the spread of Iranian influence. Senators and congressmen have been briefed on the classified “non-lethal presidential finding” that allows the CIA to provide financial and logistical support to the prime minister, Fouad Siniora. ..."</blockquote>


I recommend you visit both links / sites, and read the pieces in full.
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.96
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 11:04:51 PM
I want to surrender to Canada. Let's start a National Pettion to surrender to our Northern Neighbor.  After the Selection of Bush we no logner live under a constituional gov.. I say let's petition the Northern Neighbor to take control.

Leave your artic air masses behind, but bring Beer & Crown Royal.  We'll surrender...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Retired
EMAIL: i2739@aol.com
IP: 66.82.9.16
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 11:37:58 PM
"Washington intelligence, military and foreign policy circles are abuzz today with speculation that the President, yesterday or in recent days, sent a secret Executive Order to the Secretary of Defense and to the Director of the CIA to launch military operations against Syria and Iran."

No, they are not "abuzz with speculation".  Who does Clemons think executes such orders?  Answer: "Washington intelligence, military and foreign policy circles..."

Jeez! 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Retired
EMAIL: i2739@aol.com
IP: 66.82.9.16
URL: 
DATE: 01/11/2007 11:50:59 PM
And while I'm on the subject, if you listen carefully to what the President said in his speech, he vowed to go after the Iranian and Syrian networks that were supporting terrorist opertions in Iraq.  By definition, at least part of these networks must be in Iran and Syria.  So he in effect promulgated his "secret order" on national TV.

Almost no one called the President on this pledge in post speech analysis and rebuttal, however, even in this post-Clinton era of presidential speech parsing.  I guess that his credibility is so low that no one even believes that he is going to do what he says anymore.  Sad.  And very, very dangerous. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.96
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 12:09:32 AM
lmost no one called the President on this pledge in post speech analysis and rebuttal, however, even in this post-Clinton era of presidential speech parsing. I guess that his credibility is so low that no one even believes that he is going to do what he says anymore. Sad. And very, very dangerous.

I think Cheney $ assoc. are.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.245.212.70
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 12:13:24 AM
Anyone hear about the US embassy getting hit in Athens?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Big Pink
EMAIL: null@null.com
IP: 207.34.148.144
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 12:32:53 AM
1Watt said:

"I want to surrender to Canada. Let's start a National Petition to surrender to our Northern Neighbor. After the Selection of Bush we no longer live under a constitutional gov.. I say let's petition the Northern Neighbor to take control.

Leave your artic air masses behind, but bring Beer & Crown Royal. We'll surrender..."


No deal. Thanks anyway. That was settled in 1814 with the White House still smouldering. We're doing just fine without you. Buzz off.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: J
EMAIL: fam24578@yahoo.com
IP: 69.8.10.227
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 12:42:06 AM
Susan,

a propaganda campaign using israeli agents and their neocon auxiliaries and sympathizers who stampeded us into a war in iraq is being preped to stampede us into a war on iran.  says former pm bibi netanyahu quote 'israel's war must be sold as amercia's war' end quote.  netanyahu has said quote 'that israel must immediately launch an intense international pr front first and foremost on the u.s..  the goal being to encourage bush to live to to specific pledges he wouldn't allow iran to arm itself with nukes.  we must make clear to the (u.s.) govt, the congress, and the american public that a nuclear iran is a threat to the u.s. and the entire world, not only israel' end quote.
 
now how can iran with no air force or navy to speak of, an economy that isn't even 2% of ours, a country that has not started a single war since their revolution 27 years ago, is about to give terror type to use on us a n-toy it may be 10 yrs away from even being able to build.   snarf.
 
will congress be duped again into giving bush a blank check for war?
 
the israeli-neocons are knocking on our nation's congressional doors trying to 'force' their iran war propaganda down our congress's throats.
 

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 01:06:48 AM
Mr. Murder, according to this <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/12/world/main2354727.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/12/world/main2354727.shtml</a> witnesses heard an explosion - apparently no confirmation yet.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Retired
EMAIL: i2739@aol.com
IP: 66.82.9.61
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:31:28 AM
Re AmEmb Athens:  First reports are that someone fired an RPG at the eagle seal on the front of the embassy.

Comment:  I guess that this is why I was offered the big, spacious view office just behind the eagle when I was posted to an embassy, rather than my boss getting it,
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 10:28:31 AM
Apparently the US attacked an Iranian consulate (or liason office, reports differ) in Iraqi Kurdustan yesterday. The Iraqi government was not involved or consulted apparently. So much for the fiction of the sovereignty of Iraq.

If it was a full consulate, then it is an act of war in the most formal sense of the word. WaPo reports it was only a liason office that was to be upgraded to consulate status in the future. Even so, it seems that Bush is trying to provoke the Iranians into a response that could justify a major attack. 

I think the Iranians are smarter and more politically savvy than the Bush administration, so I don't expect them to take the bait. But if Bush keep escalating the provocations, there comes a point at which it will be difficult for the Iranians not to respond.

When the thug is smashing your car windows with a baseball bat, it may be prudent not to respond. But when he takes the baseball bat to your head, you pretty much have to do something.

I really don't think Bush will stop until he gets his war. And I don't think the boy king has the patience to wait very long. I'm going to spend the weekend stocking up a bit -- filling the heating oil tank and my 5-gallon gasoline cans. I have a very bad feeling about this.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 11:10:11 AM
I couldn't believe Bush's threats against Iran and Syria last night, our attack on an Iranian consulate and arrest of diplomats, and the warships Bush has sent to the Persian Gulf. Bush is out of control. But who in Congress is going to do more than talk, who will put a stop to this?

Shargash,
I'm stocking up on supplies too. Bush appears to want Armageddon.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 11:12:20 AM
From everything I've seen, heard and read, I believe that George W. Bush is criminally insane.  I started believing this leading up to the '04 election.  At the time, I thought I was going out on a limb.  Two things are clearer today.

1.) I did not in fact have an original thought.  Authoritative opinions are being written on the subject, along with at least one entire book (Justin Frank, "Bush on the Couch") making a convincing case for his being a sociopath.

2.) I do not feel vindicated to compliment myself for being right.  Somehow, knowing that the commander of the world's most powerful military, with his finger on the nuclear trigger, is a lunatic, or insane, or a sociopath or whatever he is, does not give me a warm fuzzy.

There's still a few die-hards out there hoping that W will start addressing what he wants for his legacy.  I think that hope is seriously misplaced.  W already is addressing in his own mind what he wants for his legacy.  He wants to be right, or at least un-wrong...something to do with a dysfunctional daddy relationship.

Any president who allocates less troops at the beginning when more are recommended, and then more at the end when less are recommended, and disregards all other good advice on top of it, is not concerned about what others think about his legacy.  He's only concerned about the legend in his own mind.

Where I live in CA, if someone successfully uses an insanity plea in a court trial, the result is Atascadero State Hospital, which is for the criminally insane.  There is no pre-determined time spent.  If and when they ever get out, its only by concensus of the psychiatric staff, which is not common.  The point is that the crazies are effectively isolated from doing harm to others and themselves.

George W. Bush must be isolated from doing harm.  No one will do it for us.  Its an exteme longshot to expect the psychiatric staff at Bethesda Naval Hospital to declare their commander in chief to be mentally unfit to carry out the office of president.  There's only one other option, IMPEACH the SOB.  Not next year, not two months from now after "serious congressional debate", NOW, as in do it yesterday.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 11:21:36 AM
Under the 25th amendment to the Constitution, a President can be removed if he becomes incapacitated, but he's then replaced by the vice president. Or there's impeachment! But that would entail lengthy hearings and the Senate doesn't have enough votes.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/12/2007 11:21:50 AM
Retired, it was good to hear more and more -- as the day went on -- mention of the president's remarks re Iran and Syria.  I heard it many times, at least, on MSNBC -- Olbermann, Scarborough, Hardball, and I forget where else.  Just now Barbara Flavin (USA Today) mentioned it to Diane Rehm on her NPR show.

However, I think your great concern re his low credibility meaning people don't take him seriously is very important.  Especially since most of the American public probably isn't aware of Bush's fixation on Iran and what's afoot.  

J, I hope the iranians are smarter and wiser than Bush.  We may have to count on them.



-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/12/2007 12:00:10 PM
I just added a morning update near the top of the story.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 12:15:07 PM
Ok, this is a mind bender. The CIA aiding & supporting the Lebanese government against Hezbollah in order to provide security for the Saudis and Israel, who attacked Lebanon & greatly weakend PM Siniora, with U.S. blessing. 

Let me know what I'm leaving out... 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/12/2007 12:26:45 PM
Yes, Mart.  And may I add -- which I forgot to do in the piece -- that joshua Landis is a very credible source on Syria.  Last year he was a Fulbright Fellow there, and he's married to a Syrian.  

He has been on PBS Newshour at least twice that I recall.  And I think Charlie Rose had him on this past fall. 

His blog is a great source re Syria and Lebanon.  I just wish I remembered to visit it more often.

<a href="http://joshualandis.com/blog/?p=144" rel="nofollow">http://joshualandis.com/blog/?p=144</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: farzi
EMAIL: persianoliveoil@hotmail.com
IP: 151.151.73.168
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 01:00:47 PM
I do think the Iranians will not be duped into going to war.  They're smart-enough to see through Bush's provocation.
Now that we're stormed the Iranian embassy in Iraq, does it mean we can no longer complain about Iranians seizing the US embassy in 1979?  Are we even now?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 01:08:33 PM
Thanks for the link Susan; I was not aware Landis was from the University of Oklahoma, which is in my neck of the woods.
  
The reports of Israel training across the Mediterranean for long range flights certainly fits the rumors of planned tactical nuclear strikes on Iran. Although the reports on this I saw recently were from questionable sources (one of Murdoch's British rags, I believe), the quotes from the Israeli  general are very blunt.  If Israel attacks Iran, especially if they use nukes, the "chaos bulding outwards" will stretch from Israel to Pakistan. The belief across the region has always been that America is the Jewish enforcer, & that idea will unite disparite factions.  A great irony in this tragedy is the Saudis now being forced to ally with the Israelis against Hezbollah to stall growing Shia power.  I would not be surprised if civil unrest begins to bubble in Saudi. 

I'm stuck in a major ice storm here in OK, so I guess I have time to ponder the role of China and Russia in this debacle.  This is all bad business and will end very badly.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/12/2007 01:29:05 PM
Hope you have electricity, Matt, and plenty of food.

I've been inside since Tuesday here in Western Wash. state.  We got hit with snow and very cold temps.  It's about 20 degrees now and feels like 12 degrees.  I keep busy feeding all the birds and other wildlife (peanut butter sandwiches are winners).  And all the homeless cats (thank god for those huge bags of Costco cat food).  
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:03:00 PM
Stocked up on food & power on so far - market yesterday was a free-for-all.  Looked like Limbaugh and Rover going for the last doughnut.

I'll try the peanut butter for the birds - this is supposed to last 5 days so they'll need some help :)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:14:13 PM
Mart,
Heard about the storm on the morning news, hope you're OK and the birds and cats.

Via Josh Marshall at TPM, from John Burns at the NYT...could Bush be lying to us yet again about the purpose of the "surge"? Is the point to depose Maliki and provide an excuse to attack Iran? [The latter part appears to me to clearly be the case, per Bush's speech.]

Burns: "A Shiite political leader who has worked closely with the Americans in the past said the Bush benchmarks appeared to have been drawn up in the expectation that Mr. Maliki would not meet them. "He cannot deliver the disarming of the militias," the politician said, asking that he not be named because he did not want to be seen as publicly criticizing the prime minister. "He cannot deliver a good program for the economy and reconstruction. He cannot deliver on services. This is a matter of fact. There is a common understanding on the American side and the Iraqi side."

"Views such as these — increasingly common among the political class in Baghdad — are often accompanied by predictions that Mr. Maliki will be forced out as the crisis over the militias builds. The Shiite politician who described him as incapable of disarming militias suggested he might resign; others have pointed to an American effort in recent weeks to line up a “moderate front” of Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish political leaders outside the government, and said that the front might be a vehicle for mounting a parliamentary coup against Mr. Maliki, with behind-the-scenes American support."

<a href="http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2007/01/meanwhile_in_ba.html" rel="nofollow">http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2007/01/meanwhile_in_ba.html</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: cors
EMAIL: cors@yahoo.com
IP: 64.56.232.174
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:35:13 PM
The Athens thing makes Spain look less like Joe's dad, but, hey, Kos is from there isn't he... and CoS does mean Rove and they did form Africom right after Larry bagged those terrorists in London on his trip from Africa, but where is hezbollah anyway and this 'covert action?'  It's not like Canada just recognized them and there are alot of them who immigrated there just before and, like, is co vert gonna be working there cause they all want money like the Afghans and Pakistanis got!

'congress be duped again!' 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:41:51 PM
Apparently the Kurdish troops came very close to firing on the US troops that seized the Iranian consulate-pending. Wouldn't that just be our Dubya to start a shooting war with the one group in Iraq that doesn't already hate our guts?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:45:24 PM
Shargash,
did you read over at Huffington, our new Defense Secretary Gates says he isn't an expert on Iraq. Although Bush has put him in charge of the war in Iraq. Kinda makes you wonder what Gates will be doing all day?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 03:14:34 PM
Leslie,

Based on available evidence, I'd have to say that knowledge about one's prospective job is a disqualifying fault in the Bush administration. If someone competent does sneak past the gatekeepers, he is quickly dismissed. Loyalty is the only virtue in the Bush White House.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 03:44:33 PM
Shargash,
It turns out Gates isn't an expert on military matters either.

Via Crooks & Liars, from the Ithaca Journal: "At one point Gates, just three weeks on the job, told lawmakers, “I would confess I'm no expert on Iraq.” Later, asked about reaching the right balance between American and Iraqi forces, he told the panel he was “no expert on military matters.”

<a href="http://www.theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070112/NEWS01/701120348" rel="nofollow">http://www.theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070112/NEWS01/701120348</a>

Well, I feel so much safer now.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: farzi
EMAIL: persianoliveoil@hotmail.com
IP: 151.151.21.103
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 03:49:07 PM
I feel another Hecka Vu Job moment coming on.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 03:51:48 PM
Leslie, just read the article before I clicked over. An attack on Iran certainly seems imminent.  Since I have no rational explanation for what we are witnessing, I will engage in *wild speculation*:

You know how when a man is about to face a long prison term or worse, he will often claim to have found Jesus?  I thought about how this might relate to Jr. the other night while watching his scary monologue. Congress, the American people, and the world have turned against him big time.  He is in a corner. So, nowhere else to turn, he turns to his God (he's still mad at Poppy for his awful childhood).  His God, who just happens to sound just like James Dobson, tells him the prophecy must be fulfilled, and that he is the instrument.  This is a happy coincidence for the Cheney neocons, since they want chaos to rule as well.  After all, from chaos arises Democracy(?), and as chance would have it chaos makes them and their cronies exceedingly rich. 

So we have a religously insane President whose goals parallel a group of fascists intent on world domination.  And they control the worlds mightiest military.  

*wild speculation off*
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 04:17:04 PM
Mart and Farzi,
I'd say storming the Iranian consulate in Erbil with five backup helicopters, telling the diplomats to surrender or else, then arresting them constitutes an attack on Iran. But that's just "wild speculation" on my part. 

Iran doesn't have to retaliate for that, however. Bush created the excuse for war in his speech. You know all those Iranian networks fomenting violence in Iraq Bush spoke of. As far as Bush is concerned, that's an act of war by Iran. So send in the navy and air force bombs. Wonder when Bush will attack Saudi Arabia next, for supplying Iraqi Sunni militias?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/12/2007 05:15:27 PM
Richard Wolfe of Time -- the guy who's always on with Keith Olbermann -- was just on Tucker/MSNBC.

He poo-poo'd fears of Bush attacking Iran.  Said it's mostly a worry of the Internet.

That reairs at 3pm PT.

Frankly, I don't know why Keith has him on so much. He's pleasant and nice to look at but is an on-the-fence type who really doesn't say all that much.



-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 05:27:07 PM
Susan,
Globalsecurity.org's John Pike is expecting an attack on Iran within a month and no later than August.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/13/2007 01:26:09 PM
Leslie, he sure has his facts in a row.  What's your sense of his track record on predicting the Bush acts of madness?

:::::

From the NYT: "A recent series of American raids against Iranians in Iraq was authorized under an order that President Bush decided to issue several months ago to undertake a broad military offensive against Iranian operatives in the country, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday."

-- Josh Marshall
<a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011906.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011906.php</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 06:38:47 PM
Susan,
I don't know Pike's track record. Because I haven't paid attention to it, sorry.

But given Bush's raid on the Iranian consulate in Erbil, I'd say the attack has begun.
-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Jim Webb Takes on Iran, "The Elephant In The Bedroom"
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/12/2007 02:12:26 PM
-----
BODY:
While Barack Obama made a big splash after Bush's speech Wednesday night on CNN's Larry King and ABC Nightline, it was Sen. Jim Webb's questions and statements at Thursday's grilling of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that I most eagerly anticipated (and which are provided in full below the fold). While Obama is very sharp and has the "it" factor, the new Democratic senator from Virginia has the "gravitas" factor.  I just wish it were <em>he</em> who had the two years as U.S. Senator so he'd be the go-to candidate for president in '08. <a href="http://www.matthewyglesias.com/archives/2007/01/the_question_of_the_day/">Adds</a> blogger Matthew Yglesius:

<blockquote>Jim Webb is really one of the most exciting things to happen to our politics recently; the personification of potentially worthy electoral trends who's managed to pull it off not by embracing militarism but by showing that good sense in national security policy can be fused to personality and cultural attributes other than, say, mine. And so it's good to see him in particular asking the Secretary of State the question of the day: "Is it the position of this administration that it possesses the authority to take unilateral action against Iran in the absence of a direct threat without congressional approval?"</blockquote> 
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EXTENDED BODY:
From the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing with Condoleezza Rice, January 11, 2007:

<blockquote>SENATOR WEBB

Senator Webb?

Your patience is commendable and your experience is extensive, so I'm...

WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And I also realize I am the last obstacle between you and lunch...

BIDEN: No, no, no...

WEBB: ... Secretary Rice and the door...

(LAUGHTER)

... so I'll be as brief as I can.

Secretary Rice, I want to thank you for being here. And I want you to know my door is always open if you ever want to come by and discuss any issue or call me or whatever. I'm looking forward very much to working with you.

I'd like to associate myself with many of the views here that you've heard about what I believe is a necessity for us to widen the diplomatic approach in terms of reaching a solution.

WEBB: I want to make just a quick comment that won't require an answer from you, and then I do have a question about something that concerns me a great deal.

With respect to the situation in Iran and with Iran and the region, there are many, including myself, who warned that invading and occupying Iraq would, in fact, empower Iran.

And that has become a reality.

We also -- there was a great deal of notice and comment recently about the fact that Iran has more power in Iraq than it has had in a very long time, perhaps going back a couple of hundred years, and that is a reality.

And our options are to ignore -- to do things informally, as you've been discussing, or to more actively engage in -- when I'm looking at this, one of the things that sticks in my mind is the situation that we had with China in 1971.

This was a rogue nation that had nuclear weapons, it had an American war on its border. The parallels are not exact, but we went forward, without giving up any of our ideals or our national objectives, and we did a very aggressive engagement process that, over a period of time, has arguably brought China into the international community.

And I just hope you will pass on to the president: A, my best regards; and, B, that if he were to move in that direction, he certainly would have the strong support of me and perhaps other people.

The question that I have for you goes back to the presidential finding on the resolution that authorized force in '02.

And there is a sentence in here which basically says that this resolution does not constitute any change in the position of the executive branch with regard to its authority to use force to deter, prevent or respond to aggression or other threats to United States interests outside of Iraq.

This phrase went to situations outside of Iraq.

And this is a question that can be answered either very briefly or through written testimony, but my question is: Is it the position of this administration that it possesses the authority to take unilateral action against Iran in the absence of a direct threat without congressional approval?

RICE: Senator, I'm really loathe to get into questions of the president's authorities without a rather more clear understanding of what we are actually talking about.

So let me answer you, in fact, in writing. I think that would be the best thing to do.

WEBB: I would appreciate that.

RICE: But let me just say how we view the situation currently. We continue to believe that our struggle with Iran is a long one, it's a strategic one, it has elements of the fight in the war on terror, it has elements of trying to stabilize the Middle East in which Iran is a tremendously destabilizing force. It has, of course, an Iraq dimension. And it also has an important nuclear dimension.

And I think we believe we have the right policy for dealing with those matters through diplomacy.

Now what the president was very much referring to is, of course, every American president -- and that goes back a very, very long way -- has made very clear that we will defend our interests and those of our allies in the Persian Gulf region. And so there is nothing new in that statement that the president has made.

The one important new fact here is that, for force protection purposes, we have to worry about what Iran is doing. We all know their activities for these enhanced IEDs and so forth. And we are going to go after the networks that do that.

I believe that, when you talk to the military advisers, they believe that is something that can be done in Iraq, that it is something that is done by good intelligence and by quickness of action. And, in fact, we've had a couple of those occasions recently where we've gone after these networks.

WEBB: Right. Well, I think we both probably know what the elephant in the bedroom is here. And I've got a long history of experience in dealing with defense issues.

And there is one pretty profound change since I was in the Pentagon in the Reagan administration, and that is the notion that the executive branch has the power to conduct a preemptive war as opposed to a preemptive attack. And the situations that you're talking about really go to preemptive attack against a specific threat where people on the other side are being threatened. And the concern that I and a number of people have is that this would be interpreted as something broader. So I'd appreciate if you could give us something in writing on that. Thank you very much.

RICE: I will. If I may, just in one other point on Senator Webb's earlier point.

RICE: Senator, we've gone a long way, actually, to offer the opportunity for the Iranians to talk to us. We did it in the context of the nuclear program because we believe that's a real near-term threat, and if we don't get a handle on the nuclear program we've got a real problem.

I want to repeat again, if they will stop enriching so that they're not improving their nuclear capability while they're talking, they'll find somebody who's willing to talk to them under any circumstances.

But I think short of that we send a wrong message about our resolve, and, frankly, it has a cost with nations in the region that are looking very closely at how we are conducting ourselves vis-a-vis the Iranians.

WEBB: Right. Well, I think that it's important, as the Baker commission was saying, a lot of people have been saying, and I've been saying, that when you have a situation with a nation that constitutes this kind of threat, it's very important to confront as well as to engage.

And I personally think it would be a bold act for George W. Bush to get on an airplane and go to Tehran in the same manner that President Nixon did, take a gamble, and not give up one thing that we believe in, in terms of its moving toward weapons of mass destruction, our belief that Israel needs to be recognized and interests need to be protected, but to maybe start changing the formula here.

Thank you.

BIDEN: Thank you very much.

WEBB: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.</blockquote>

NOTE:  It's been very difficult to find a transcript.  I asked Beachmom at <em>Daily Kos</em> how she got the partial transcript quotes that she has in her recommended diary, "<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/12/91818/9030">2006 meant something: Look at our Senate Foreign Relations Committee in action</a>."  She sent me to JohnKerry.com, which provides <a href="http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/speech.html?id=19">the remarks and questions of Senators Kerry, Dodd, Hagel, Feingold and Webb</a>.  

She also told me that she got a full transcript of yesterday's hearing via e-mail from a friend, and that she is sending me that transcript. <strong>UPDATE: </strong> I just got the full transcript from Beachmom, and have uploaded it to our file area.  Enjoy. <a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/files/1SFRCHearing011107.rtf">Download 1SFRCHearing011107.rtf</a>

In her diary, <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/12/91818/9030">Beachmom wrote</a>:

<blockquote>Finally, I want you to read a few words from my new senator James Webb.  In my years in Virginia, I felt distinctly disenfranchised as on the federal level I only had Republican elected officials.  Taxation without representation came to mind.  But in 2006 Virginia became a purple state, and I hope that the small part I played locally made a difference in getting a patriot like Jim Webb elected to the Senate.  Needless to say, <strong>I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that the collective IQ of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee doubled when George Allen left and James Webb came in</strong>.</blockquote>

-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: itgo
EMAIL: itgo@yahoo.com
IP: 64.56.232.174
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:38:38 PM
Rice is pretty much for writing things off.  So, did she plan the Afghan war?  I doubt she had anything to do with it, so maybe she's a pass.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:47:34 PM
Does anyone believe Rice will answer Webb's question in writing? Thought so.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BrendaStewart
EMAIL: stormyweather1@hotmail.com
IP: 65.7.34.236
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 02:55:11 PM
Beachmon has said it so beautifully.  I too have felt so very long that I too have been taxed without representation in my state...and still am.

I believe heartly that Senator Webb will make the most difference on this one committee and also on the other one that he will finally drive home a point as to what we the ppl do want.  BTW, it was the progressive bloggers that asked him to run-- and he did and he won!-- if I am not mistaken.  So see what a little umfff can do when you have your mind made up to becoming a light at the table that shines for all to see!!  Thank God for Jim and his desire to do that which is right for America and her ppl.

I feel, personally after all that I have read recently, that this adm is running scare.  They will trip up someplace and it will be the end of the neocon era, hopefully.

I so want my and your America back!  At my age, it is imparitive to see my family not suffer any more for the actions of this adm and, for the years to come, to feel comfident that when I do pass on, it will be moving onward towards the whole of the nation and not just of those who are wealthy and rich...it will be for us all.....

I hope in the years I have left on this earth, I will also be able to see the ppl of this adm suffer the way they have made others suffer.  I would love that more than any old thing ever....I then could die a peaceful death that would have meant something for the country of which I so proudly searved many years ago.  

hugs to all....
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 04:24:01 PM
Iran has nothing to do with al queda.  just nothing at all.  and they may be nosing around in Iraq, but there are plenty of munitions and plenty of oil money so people can get whatever they need with little outside help.

   we forget we went into iraq because of Al queda, as ridiculous as that sounds now.  To go to war with iran because of what they may or may not do in iraq is ridiculous.


  How is iran destabilizing the region?  I don't see one thing they've done that has stablized or destablized or effected it in any way
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 04:27:50 PM
also has anyone gotten used to the fact that we will soon be engulfed in FIVE wars?  I can't seem to get used to it myself.  It jsut seems preposterous everytime I think about it.  particularly when we have no chance of winning in

Iraq
Afghanistan (because we have put no priority on it)
Somalia
Iran
Syria


all because Bush blew it pre-9/11.

and none of these countries is saudi arabia.

what is going on?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 04:41:07 PM
Lester,
You forgot North Korea. They're planning on testing another nuclear bomb. Bush just sent fighter planes to South Korea.

Does sending the CIA to fight Hezbollah in Lebanon count?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 05:54:22 PM
Maybe Webb could ask Condi to clarify Bush's support for Iraq's Shias, even though he's willing to bomb Iran for theirs?

Because...is anyone else as confused about who Bush is supporting in Iraq as I am: Sunni or Shia? Let's see: Maliki's Shia government is OK, but Iran's support for Shias isn't. The Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is least likely to be aligned with Iran, is an enemy. But the most likely Shia cleric to be aligned with Iran, al-Hakim, is a friend. Chalabi, who's a discredited friend of Iran, remains a friend. But it's the foreign jihadists operating under bin Laden's direction in Iraq who are our real enemies—so things are becoming clearer. Even though there were even fewer of them there before we invaded. But we killed Zarqawi, who was a Salifist and not really a true blue al Qaeda, so things got better until they got worse. And Bush thinks Muqtada al-Sadr will attack Detroit any minute, even though he's not al Qaeda, which is predominately Sunni. But Saudi Arabia is still our friend, even though they're Sunni and that's where most of the 9/11 terrorists came from.

I'm sooooo confused.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/12/2007 05:57:03 PM
Lester, Saudi Arabia (Bandar) has a love fest goin' with the Bush administration.  I wonder how future administrations will treat them.  (And I sure wish I could be around 100 years from now to see how we treat them when the oil runs out.)

OT:  I just wanted to tell you all that I bought one of Jim Webb's novels for a penny + shipping via Better World, an indy book dealer that sells through Amazon.

"The Emperor's General" is a GREAT READ!  It's about the end of WWII in the Pacific (Philippines), then the post-war era in Japan.  Its fictional hero is an aide to Gen. MacArthur, and chock full of all kinds of personal details on MacArthur.  Besides all the history and portraits of real historical figures and their nations, the fleshing out of the characters is terrific.  

Webb has a lot of insight into the human psyche, longings and dreams, regrets, faults, romantic aspirations.  His depth of character development is quite unlike a lot of the thriller/history-type books I've read in the past.

I started with one purchase, to test how I'd like his fiction, but am sure I'll be buying some of his other novels.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 06:00:52 PM
susan-  the PEOPLE of saudi arabia mainly hate us.  I doubt the roysal family are funding terror, but the various oil billionaires certainly are.  not to mention the hateful mosques they erect all over the world.

   People always say 'so and so is our ally.  egypt is an ally"  the people of egypt and their unelected regime are two different things.  That's why I like Iran.  at least the guy is honest
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 06:11:27 PM
Oh forgot, regarding Bush's support for Shias, as long as they're not Iranian Shias or....??: and Saudi Arabia is still our friend even though they're [unofficially] supplying Iraq's Sunni militias, who are killing US troops.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: farzi
EMAIL: persianoliveoil@hotmail.com
IP: 151.151.73.167
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 06:39:30 PM
Leslie, Maliki is not ok as far as Condi is concerned.  Remember she said he's on "borrowed time"?

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mary
EMAIL: mperdue2002@yahoo.com
IP: 67.36.158.78
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 06:57:25 PM
Well, at least we don't have to worry about the Kurds, right?  The fact that they have their own PKK deal going and we're giving Turkey the thumbs up to strike back doesn't mean they aren't our pals.  And the fact that they hated Saddam means they love us, right?  

And so they have already undercut the Bush/Rice "Let's Bring Socialism to Iraq Before CHavez Does" plan of Oil for the People (but only after the US and International Congl. cut) by entering into their own deal before the purple ink on their fingers was dry.

At least we have the kurds on our side, right?  The nice calm peaceful kurdish lands.


<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070112/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070112/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq</a>


The Iraqi foreign minister said Friday that the five Iranians detained by U.S.-led forces in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq were working in a liaison office that had government approval and was in the process of being approved as a consulate.
Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, a Kurd, also said U.S. forces tried to seize more people at the airport in Irbil, 220 miles north of Baghdad, prompting a confrontation with Kurdish troops guarding the facility that was resolved without casualties.
...
Local Kurdish authorities protested that they were not informed in advance about the arrests and raised fears that tensions between Iran and the United States were hurting Iraq's interests.
"We don't want Iraq to be a battleground for settling scores with other countries," Zebari told CNN in an interview.
...
Iraqi and Iranian officials initially said the Iranian office was a diplomatic mission, raising questions about whether those detained had diplomatic immunity. But Zebari told The Associated Press that the Iranians worked at a "liaison office" that was in the process of becoming a consulate. 
"This office is not new and has been there for more than 10 years," he said. "We are now in the process of changing these offices to consulates and ... we will open consulates in Iran." 
...
The regional Kurdish government condemned the arrests of the Iranians and called for their release. Many Kurds, including Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, have close ties to Iran.


Ahh yes, the Kurds - opening Iranian consulates there - preparting to open Kurdish Iraqi consulates in Iran - armed standoff with US troops and condemnation of US Iranian policies - along with a mention that they don't really like extending the "fight them there so we don't have to fight them here" American policy to Iran as well as al-Qaeda. 

I'm surprised at the lack of warm embrace.  You'd think they'd be offering package deals to the Bloods to visit so we could go fight our gang wars there instead of here too.  A whole new kind of terroristtourist industry.

Everyone wants to reduce the whole thing to a sound bite and it is not reducible in that fashion. 

That's the main reason we need our military to be elsewhere.  We have not one person in the Admin or military command structure that seems to stand up and assert a coherent understanding of the complexity of the problems, much less how you send in 19 yos (or 23 yos on their second and third deployments for that matter) who don't speak the language and have no reason to feel anything for the Iraqi people other than mistrust, shading to hate, and ask them to propagate a culture of tie dye and flowers. 

And what's with Gates, who was on the IRaq Study Group fergoshsakes and is being brought in to head up DOD in its hour of ME need--- dodging questions by saying he's not an Iraq expert.

Umm - then WHY did he think he was a good pick for the ISG, much less to head DOD.

Every day, the admin and Congress manage to baffle me that much more. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Marlowe
EMAIL: chris.marlowe@yahoo.com
IP: 71.135.176.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 07:19:00 PM
The inconsistencies in the Bush administration's policy statements are mind-boggling, and are probably not worthy of logical analysis.

You might as well try to analyze the talk of a blithering idiot cheerleader fratboy who's a dry drunk, and trying to show the whole world how tough he is. 

Oh, I forgot...

But here's just one...

Condy says that Maliki is on borrowed time.

But Maliki is the head of a sovereign state, not an American puppet, right? So how do you set benchmarks for the head of a sovereign state? 

Are you going to do it the same way that Ngo Dinh Diem was ousted in Nov. 1963 in Vietnam? As if there wasn't enough factional fighting in Iraq?

Maliki demonstrated his independence from the US by pushing hard for Saddam's execution before the end of 2006. In the end, it was Condy, our ever-capable Secretary of State, who made the decision to hand Saddam to Maliki, who promptly turned Saddam over to Sadr's people, who did the botched execution.

How was Maliki held to account for mishandling this, which Our Great Leader described as something which was just little better than the torture news at Abu Ghraib?

So Condy could not stand up to Maliki over something like Saddam's execution, and she is going to set up benchmarks for Maliki for this halfwit's surge? 

These idiots actually managed to turn a mass murderer into a martyr!

And if Maliki doesn't meet those benchmarks, then what?

When you look at how the Bush administration has deliberately ignored diplomacy as a tool, I don't think it would make the least bit of difference if the State Department were just disbanded. Condy should be the last Secretary of State.

Why don't we just issue benchmarks for everybody, including our friends and enemies? And when they don't meet the benchmarks, we can do...

Nothing...

Benchmarks! This from the same administration who found WMD in Iraq, brought peace and freedom to the people of Iraq, and captured Osama  bin-Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, and quickly rebuilt New Orleans post Katrina.

Come on, how much force-fed bullshit over five years do you expect Americans and the world to put up with?

Karl Rove, your time has come and gone. You can gold-plate a turd; it's still a turd. And this turd really stinks...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 10:02:23 PM
Farzi,
Whoops. It's hard to keep track you of who's in and who's out you know. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mauimom
EMAIL: Mauimom@AOL.com
IP: 68.33.71.154
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 10:07:36 PM
The inconsistency that gets me is the

a) Iraq/Maliki is SO important to US security that we "can't fail" 

vs.

b) If Maliki/Iraqis don't meet the "benchmarks" ---> implied that we're outta there.

So it's important but not important???  Huh?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 10:27:25 PM
Oh Mauimom,
You just don't get the Bushie doublespeak. Here's the BushieBabble translation: Maliki CAN'T control Baghdad. Bush expects him to fail. Then Bush will use Maliki's Shia army's failure to justify bombing Shia Iran.

And the reason why Bush is embedding "surge" troops with the Maliki Shia army is because the Saudi Wahabists got nervous about Bushie's 80% solution. In other words, Bushie's support for the Shias, who comprise about 80% of the population. If left on their own, Maliki's army would probably kill a lot of Sunnis. So the Saudi Wahabists called Cheney tootie sweetie and convinced the Bushies to embed the "surge" troops in Maliki's Shia army. That way our troops will support the Shia while we get killed by the Shia, and prevent the killing of Sunni while we get killed by the Sunni. But things will get a whole lot better once we bomb Iran. See?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick Henry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.113.206
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 10:55:06 PM
Susan..

Thanks for posting another Interesting article..along with your Others..all Note Worthy..as well as those of Larry Johnson...who has told us alot of TRUTH all along..before and After the Bush WAR in IRAQ..and how its been conducted..

BAD CONDUCT..BAD POLICY..BAD PLANNING..BAD POLITICS..BAD PUBLIC SERVICE..

The RECORD is CLEAR and so is the INTENT..

I  share  with others A High regard for Senator Jim Webb..and strongly supported His Campaign for Senator..as some of you know..

In My opinion..He is the Right Man..in the Right Place at the Right Time..and the People of Virginia have NOW..A good..Qualified Man..REPRESENTING..Them and the  Nation..

I Found his exchange with Condi Rice very interesting during the SFRC Hearing..

Senator Webb made very Clear Statements..and Asked Very Specific Questions..specifically about How much Authority the President ASSUMES He has..and War Powers..

Condi Rice Replied that she is "LOATHE" to answer the senators SPECIFIC Questions..withput a "Clear understanding of what we are talking about"

She understood very well what the Senators question was..
The Fact that she was "LOATHE" to Answer  Senator Webbs Question .Shows
  me  the same Contempt
and Offensive and Defensive attitudes the Bush administration has displayed all along..

Loathe means "Extreme Disgust". She is still Demonstrating the same old Neo Con..Attitudes..Defending the President..This administration and its policys which in..my Opinion HAVE NEVER CHANGED...
even after the Last Elections..and Media and Public Attention and Comments..and Criticisms
of the Bush administration..

Let us not forget all the past failed Poilicys..and promises..and Means and Methods..

Same Pushy Game..same Rhetoric..same Policys in Iraq and else where..same Objectives..Same Attitudes about ASSUMED Powers and daring the Congress or anyone else to stop them or do anything about it..

i/e the "Surge" and the President demonstrating more "Assumed'" authority as Commader in Chief..with some Clear signals of Broader Intent in the Middle east..

We Still Have a National Crisis ongoing and a Constitutional Debate tha Must be addressed by Congress..which has been given a Clear Mandate from the People who Desire IMMEDIATE Checks and balances..

So far Nothing has Changed..The War is Escalating..Bush is Daring Congress to stop Him..while he comes up with what I consider another Questionable "PANIC POLICY.." hoping for Short Term Solutions so the Democrates or the Next president will be faced with the MESS..and I think most of us know there will be Future Consequences..all thanks the The Bush administration Policys..


.We MUST Have Swift hearings..Investigations into Conduct..and into the Actions and Intesnts..Past and Present of President bush and His Inner Circle.. 

and where His and Thier Unchecked Policys are Taking Us Now..

Bush relyed on don Ruimsfeld to run the War..
We Know the Consequences of that error in judgement...

I think President Bush is Now relying on others in the SHADOWS like Dick Cheney whose role and connections in all this and many issues needs to be investigated..Including the WHYS..and the means and methods used to carry out policys..and Spend the Money  of the People and use  and deplete the Resources 
the United States Government..including 23 000 mores Troops and another 100 Billion US Tax Dollars...the Expand the War even further..which I believe the Bush administration Intends to Do unless Congress and the Democrates take Mandated Action...and becomes the CONSTITUTIONAL CONGRESS..it was Intended to Be..

I think President bush will Keep Pushing..Bullying..and Daring Congress to do anything about it..

WE THE PEOPLE DID OUR PART..

Now its Time for Congress to ACT..for the Good of the Nation..















-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.172.164
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/13/2007 01:09:38 PM
Nice to see you, Patrick!

:::::::::

Do not miss this.  Excerpts from Webb's turn at questioning Peter Pace (Webb is also on the Armed Services Committee, thank god):

<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/13/51651/6104" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/13/51651/6104</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.154.127.64
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 03:26:47 PM
Check this out: "IRAN Leader's NUKE Diplomacy Questioned" by Ali Akbar Dareini assoc press Jan 13, 2007 2:06pm E.S.T.  Looks like the people of Iran are getting fed up with Ahmadinejad. Now may not be the time to let off the pressure.       
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.33.79
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 08:12:19 AM
I don't think I would have said what Webb said in that meeting. Which is probably why I am not a politician.

Not meaning to tell him his job, Susan, but I think he might and try and be rather more forthright. The time for whimsical chats are done. The philisophic debate is over. The Republican rednecks have zero faith and see reds under their beds perpetually. The blue promise analyse all humans the same but even they subscribe to favouritism.

The question is was anyone ever considered to be a threat to America. That boils down to 911 and whether it was an "inside job". That is why it is so important for the powers that comfort good to focus on that event as it is the key to the current malice.

If no one is a threat to America or her sovereignty, then Republican rednecks don't have a leg to stand on with their crazy conjecture. As it is, while 911 hangs in the balance, the reds still lurk under the beds.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 02/06/2007 04:19:38 PM
Ali Akbar Dareini is a neocon asset. He writes a tehran byline for newswire but I strongly suspect he isn't even in state.


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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Robert Hume
EMAIL: rhumeimipa@hotmail.com
IP: 68.106.104.74
URL: 
DATE: 02/09/2007 09:58:35 AM
And let's not forget that if we attack Iran the resulting uproar in Pakistan may result in nuclear warheads leaking to Al Qaeda and they may go off in New York or Tel Aviv.

*Unintended Consequences*
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: anonymous
EMAIL: tjdwalin@gmail.com
IP: 70.21.58.171
URL: 
DATE: 02/16/2007 10:56:21 PM
Rice, as far as I know, has not written to Webb, even after he wrote to her quite bluntly about it.
-----


--------
AUTHOR: Larry Johnson
TITLE: Why We Can't Win Militarily in Iraq
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: 0
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/12/2007 10:27:54 PM
-----
BODY:
<p>by<br />Larry C Johnson</p>

<p>The Bush surge is not about &quot;Mission Creep&quot;, it is &quot;Mission Leap&quot;.&nbsp; Every justification for going to war in Iraq has been exhausted&nbsp; and repudiated.&nbsp; Finally, with the execution of Saddam Hussein, we have jumped the shark.&nbsp; Yes we have deposed Saddam and his regime, we have certified that there are no WMD's in Iraq, and have helped the Iraqi Shia create a fledgling Shia-led government.&nbsp; Go get that &quot;Mission Accomplished&quot; banner and let's start the celebration.&nbsp; It is time to send our combat forces home.</p>

<p>That does not mean we will leave Iraq in peace.&nbsp; Far from it.&nbsp; A sectarian civil war is underway and will probably worsen.&nbsp; But this is a war we cannot win.&nbsp; We might have a chance if we were fighting one insurgency--let's say Zarqawi's Al Qaeda.&nbsp; But we are not.&nbsp; We are in the middle of a hydra headed civil war.&nbsp; We have helped create a lethal version of an Animal House food fight.&nbsp; There are no clear discernible sides.&nbsp; There are multiple Sunni insurgent groups and there are multiple Shia insurgent groups.&nbsp; The most extreme Sunni groups believe their ultimate mission is to kill Shia.&nbsp; Some Shia groups are willing to collaborate with some Sunnis.&nbsp; There is only thing these groups agree on--all see the United States as an intruder and want it expelled.&nbsp; </p>

<p>There is not much we can do to quell the violence in Iraq.&nbsp; In the face of our conventional military force the various insurgent groups refuse to stand and fight and melt into the populace.&nbsp; They hide out until we go away and then filter back in.&nbsp; &nbsp;We can surround the various Baghdad neighborhoods and embed our troops with Iraq police.&nbsp; And our troops will search fruitlessly for the insurgents as we invade homes and, more often than not, roust unsuspecting Iraqis.&nbsp; God help us if we do a Fallujah style clear and hold.&nbsp; It will be a human tidal wave spilling out of the city.</p>

<p>And when all is said and done these tactics simply antagonize the Iraqi populace--sunni and shia--and spur recruits for the various insurgents. Until we come to grips with this reality we will continue to fail to get a handle on the Iraq of our dreams.&nbsp; Lawrence of Arabia described this frustration as trying to eat soup with a knife.&nbsp; &nbsp; </p>
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
<p>The United States needs to redefine its mission and goals in Iraq.&nbsp; Like it or not we have created a Shia majority country that is favorably disposed towards Iran.&nbsp; We also have created regions of the former Iraq that are defacto independent regions--one Kurdish and one Sunni.&nbsp; We lack the power and the resources to impose our will on the region.&nbsp; We cannot make the Iraqis nor the Iranians nor the Syrians nor the Saudis act like we want them to act.&nbsp; If we persist in that madness we will destroy ourselves as a great power.</p>

<p>So, if everything is coming up lemons we need to consider making lemonade.&nbsp; What should we do?</p>

<p>1.&nbsp; Negotiate an immediate agreement with the Maliki Government for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq.&nbsp; This agreement should include permission for the United States to maintain a joint military/law enforcement base in Iraq dedicated to combating terrorist threats.&nbsp; We should also be willing to offer to commit to a longterm program for training and equiping the Iraqi Army and the Iraqi National Police.&nbsp; But this will require employing U.S. personnel who speak Arabic and will accpet longterm assignments in Iraq.&nbsp; And we should not be surprised if our offer is rejected.</p>

<p>2.&nbsp; Working through the Arab League, recruit and deploy a genuine multi-national peacekeeping force to police Baghdad.</p>

<p>3.&nbsp; There is a lot of diplomatic work to do on the periphery of Iraq.&nbsp; We have damaged our credibility with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Turkey.&nbsp; We have all but declared war on Syria and Iran.&nbsp; We need to cool things down and work towards some broad-based agreements.&nbsp; The&nbsp; Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group offers an excellent guide in this regard.</p>

<p>We need to step back and refocus on the issues that are important, not only to us, but to all countries in the region.&nbsp; We must combat religious extremism and ensure that all countermeasures possible are employed to detect and defeat terrorist threats from these various groups.&nbsp; We must prevent nuclear proliferation.&nbsp; We found a way to live with Pakistan, who has been the biggest proliferator in the world, surely we can find a way to contain Iran.&nbsp; </p>

<p>The neo-cons continue to try to foist their vision of terror on the people of the United States.&nbsp; They insist we must stay and fight in Iraq or else the Islamofascists--militant muslims keen on building a worldwide Caliphate (think of International Communism with God at the center)--will take over.&nbsp; A scary vision but it is nonsense.&nbsp; &nbsp;Ignore for a moment the gulf separating the aspiring Sunni Caliphs from the aspiring Shia Caliphs, there are 800 million muslims who have not bought into this craziness.&nbsp; We need to stop acting out of fear and concentrate on what is in our national interest.&nbsp; That's where the debate needs to be.&nbsp; But one thing is clear--continuing to kill Iraqis with U.S. troops is not in our interest or theirs.&nbsp; Accepting that fact is the first step on the road towards peace. </p>
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EXCERPT:

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KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 11:18:45 PM
Stalin once said he didn't need friends, he needed enemies against which he could carry out any policy, domestic or foreign.

I believe that describes Bush's foreign policies.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick hewnry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.113.206
URL: 
DATE: 01/12/2007 11:52:23 PM
I agree . Larry..good article as usual..Good recommendations..Good analysis..

Its been my Impression that President Bush and his administration are the ones Creating through thier policys..and Attitudes..

That which they Claim to Fear the Most..

Hatred for the United States and More..NOT Less enemys..More..Not Less..VIOLENCE..

The Bush administration so Far has seemed  Like a Virus..Living inside ..

A Self destructive..Self created  MATRIX..Sucking in the Whole World..Like a BLACK HOLE..

Someone in that administration Had to Know the CONSEQUENCES..

They can't ALL Be Delusional..Can They..??
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shaman ∞ 
EMAIL: prth@earthlink.net
IP: 207.69.137.205
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 02:45:33 AM
They can't ALL Be Delusional..Can They..??
Posted by:  Patrick hewnry


Hhhhmmm. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.245.212.70
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 04:10:31 AM
Good to see you back making the rounds, Patrick.

To the topic Larry,
John Murtha has mentioned as much of late in his statements. His Huffington Post statement has full support in its comments for the most part, including mine:


"Thanks Rep. Murtha,
Straight talk is what must be heard. We've already tried a surge and it produced backlash and collateral loss for our service members and Iraq's civilians.

Bush admits to placing our soldiers under order of Iraqi units, who provenly predisposes sectarian ethnic bias.

His solution of two leaders fits the divided Baghdad model-a Sunni and Shi'ite apiece.

Baghdad is the new Berlin- divided and occupied. Tear down this idealogical wall and get our soldiers out of there, the good people of that city can right the way, in concert.

Minus our presence the insurgency will wither. If we search it out such dissolves and regroups in asymmetric fashion. Our tactics and technology cannot combat this kind of human capability.

This is not winnable in terms of military objective. It is not feasible in cost return for our most precious blood resource. Treasure buys no legitimacy in unwinnable wars for a sham government divided within its sectors between factions of oil and warfare. One group claims control of interior, the other of police and military, and corruption funds both these elements against the interests of Iraq's unity in plural sovereignty and against our soldiers' security.

We cannot even rely upon advisory security winning this war. Negroponte went in there to background such an approach, a revival of the failed Contra campaign at a new location.

We had to leave central America alone for its problems to solve, and giving back Panama did not lose our country market access to its canal or business with its people.

Continue to model your statements on historical record. Practical pragmatic use of our past foreign policy will work towards our interests in the world community. 


Again Rep. Murtha thanks,"

By: MrMurder on January 12, 2007 at 06:01am 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.245.212.70
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 05:41:39 AM
Larry,

The Fitzgerald Grand Jury is the focus of a Murray Waas story in the National Journal.

<a href="http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0112nj1.htm" rel="nofollow">http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0112nj1.htm</a>

   It turns out the same day Cheney and Libby conspired to out Plame; the Vice President helped Nancy christen the U.S.S.Ronald Reagan alongside Nancy Reagan.

   "In attempting to determine Libby's motives for allegedly lying to the FBI and a federal grand jury about his leaking of Plame's CIA identity to journalists, federal investigators theorized from the very earliest stages of the case that Libby may have been trying to hide Cheney's own role in encouraging Libby to discredit Wilson, according to attorneys involved in the case." 
...
"...since the early days of the leak probe in fall 2003, even before it was taken over by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, investigators have maintained that Libby devised an elaborate cover story even though he must have known that contemporaneous records and the testimony of others was very likely to show that he was lying. Other than the motive to protect himself, the only other driving force behind Libby's actions, federal investigators have theorized, was to protect Cheney or other superiors, according to attorneys who have been involved in the CIA leak probe." 
...
    
   Waas then mentions the excerpts of Cheney's hand written notes.

   This basically patterns the approach to selling this war that Cheney used. Its introduction as evidence and Cheney's planned defense of Libby opens a chance to expand the trial's scope.

   It was something I took note of during an open comments thread at another forum:
   
"Have they done this sort of thing before? Send an Amb. [sic] to answer a question? Do we ordinarily send people out pro bono to work for us? Or did his wife send him on a junket?" 


Go through each point, and you see Cheney is basically applying his own tactics towards their actions in trying to dissect motive or spin the Wilson editorial:
-1)Someone has done that before. OSP and the White House Iraq Group. Sending people to emplant leads and stories.
-2)Send an Ambassador to make a statement- John Bolton.
-3)Sending people pro bono- privatization via Lincoln/Olive Group or why not go cost plus? Blair's Hill&Knowlton co-conspirators.
-4)For comparison EVERY junket sent through State now can be brought into the trial? This opens a broad window, one wide enough to follow the money and basically bring the entire operation Ledeen into critical light. If Cheney's concern on junkets is important why not compare every junket ever tagged alongside appropriations overseen by State?

  Waas recalls the entire chronological record to this time that has can be ascertained via purported witness, evidence, media.

    His summary sums up Libby's questioning regarding his talks with Cheney:

   'Libby then added: "You'll have to ask him." '

    The case that Libby lied appears solid in light of Waas' list of evidence. Its intent is revealed in the fact his first phone calls off Air Force two to Cooper and Miller dealt entirely with Mrs.Plame and not her husband, and Cheney said "Let's get everything out."

    Now the full context of what "everything" was, or how much of that was classified, remains a mystery. 
       
   What Fitzgerald will discuss deals strictly with Plame's outing. The supposed March 8, 2002 debriefing for Wilson does not mention her yet she ends up being outed by Cheney to Libby.

  "Two days after Wilson's July 6 column, on July 8, 2003, Libby had breakfast with Miller at the St. Regis hotel in Washington, D.C.  Miller has testified, and the grand jury has alleged, that Libby provided Miller with information that Plame was a CIA officer and had played a role in sending Wilson to Niger." 

   
   Cheney kept handwritten notes of a story by Wilson, his famous Op-Ed, and those notes mention his wife.

   Her capacity within CIA being told to Miller is extremely critical in light of her talks with Ahmed Chalabi and the original WHIG/ISG.

   Chalabi probably used the gangster tactic of jumping frequencies to hide his contacts and assets, and to keep dibs on those closest. The greatest danger of Miller being cozy with Chalabi and having access to high level clearance is that he could compromise that information using a roving wiretap as counterespionage, or at least garner her incoming calls and sources.

   That's where the Identities Protection Act will bear its full weight.

   

   
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Phillip
EMAIL: philliparmstrong@rogers.com
IP: 74.98.93.84
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 10:04:34 AM
What a nightmare. The Saudis (and the Jordians and Egyptians) want the U.S. to stay in Iraqi in order to counter Iran.

This thing has now evolved into something much much larger. I could not imagine that the Republican party, who came to power saying they did not want to be the world's police force, could have ever imagined that the U.S. would be trapped in the middle of a larger age old Shia and Sunni secretarial conflict. 

I am not sure how this at any level makes the U.S. more safe. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: domesticforeign
EMAIL: domesticforeign@yahoo.com
IP: 216.13.88.86
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 10:55:35 AM
Cern is creating black holes in space that are going to suck in the earth in 11 minutes(too long).

Hiwathka is, like, illegal.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 69.59.206.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 11:18:52 AM
funny how we could have ended this 30 years ago by giving up oil.  the civilized (and not so much so) countries would be free of oil for fuel.   

but there is no profit, government runs on corruption,  so there will be no work on alternative energy.  that technology  will free the whole world from wars of plunder and religion.

only drawback is,  only the people want  peace.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Marlowe
EMAIL: chris.marlowe@yahoo.com
IP: 71.135.176.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 12:40:26 PM
When a formerly great nation enters a long-term trend of economic, social and political decline, its government relies  on creating new domestic and political enemies to maintain power, and to intimidate other nations which are on the rise to take its place.

This creates fear among its own populace, fear to criticize its own government and blame them for the situation the country is in.

It is always somebody else's fault, and they will never look in the mirror to find out where the fault is.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.243
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 12:54:43 PM
Condi's Children?

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/t3fy4" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/t3fy4</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 01:07:52 PM
Who thinks Bush wants to "win"? We don't know his true motives do we? It could be that his "surge" policy is meant to extend the conflict in Iraq until 2009, when Bush can pass the problem off to his successor without admitting defeat. Is that so far-fetched to consider? Nixon and Kissinger used the "decent interval" approach in Vietnam to forestall the fall of Saigon and delay the placement of blame on themselves. It worked.

<a href="http://niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=00255" rel="nofollow">http://niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=00255</a>

Larry,
Your advice is well-intentioned and your ideas worth considering. But what are the odds anyone in this administration will consider them? Or listen to Congress, their generals, the Iraq Study Group, voters or anyone?

The latest news is that Bush signed off attacking Iran's Erbil consulate months ago. Bush is broadening this war. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Phillip
EMAIL: philliparmstrong@rogers.com
IP: 74.98.93.84
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 02:25:45 PM
I hear all this talk about "winning". What the hell does that mean? How do you define "winning"? Has Bush even once ever said what he means by winning? Has McCain ever said what he means by winning? Maybe a reporter should actually ask one of these guys point blank how they define winning? and how they will know when they have won?

Setting up a Western democracy in Iraq? In the region? Good luck!

Mending and stopping a struggle for resources, wealth, power and religious beliefs between the Shia and Sunni? Good luck. 

Killing or stopping all the "terrorists"? Good luck. They are likely multiplying by the day, the longer the U.S. is on Muslim land. 

The arrogence of it all. I do not think the U.S. adminstration has a clue what kind of mess they have created and are currently in? To me this is far worse than Vietnam. Decisions being made by people that have no clue what they are doing. For such a smart nation it is amazing of the lack of knowledge and ignorance of this part of the world. The U.S. is totally out of its element in the Middle East. 

Get the f'in out and regroup and fight a smarter war on those enemies of the U.S. Maybe start by developing a better understanding of the motives and issues of the enemy. Military power may also not necessarily be the best weapon... You are likely just getting sucked more and more into exactly what Bin Laden wants...  
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: GR3
EMAIL: gregoline@aplus.net
IP: 64.24.201.110
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 02:35:58 PM
Too bad the reasonable advice of the Iraq Study Commission is too old fashioned with common sense. The best neo con motive I can see is greed. Maybe Congress can finally agree on reauthorization, etc., after investigating where all those billions went. And maybe they can do so before our military is gambled away in a stupid game of 'Risk'.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: professor smartass.blogspot.com
EMAIL: myk15@verizon.net
IP: 71.106.192.17
URL: http://professorsmartass.blogspot.com
DATE: 01/13/2007 05:45:32 PM
Has Larry ever addressed false flag operations and how that could be muddying the waters of what is going on in Iraq?

I remember a while back, there was a story about Iraqi police catching a couple of guys with car bombing materials who turned out to be British special forces, and the Brits were in such a panic to get them out, they knocked down a wall to break them out instead of just going in to ask for them.

Fanning the flames of civil war might seem insane at first, but while Iraqis are fighting each other, they aren't fighting us, and they don't present a strong united political front in negotiating for their oil. 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 09:57:13 PM
IMO, we went into Iraq for two reasons: (1) to secure oil for American Oil companies and the US economy & war machine, and (2) to make the world safe for Israel. Bush, in his inimitable way, has not only failed to achieve those goals, he has had exactly the opposite effect.

BTW, Chris Floyd has a good article up here -- <a href="http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=997&Itemid=135" rel="nofollow">http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=997&Itemid=135</a> -- at Empire Burlesque about how the Bush administration is likely falsifying information about Iran's involvement in Iraq (aided and abeetted by the NY Times, again). In particular, the Bush administration wants us to believe that the Iranians are arming the Sunnis with advanced technology so they can kill Americans. This is absurd. Sunnis kill more Shia than Americans. Besides, we're doing Iran's work in Iraq. Why would they do anything but sit back and munch popcorn?
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 11:29:29 PM
Are you as confused about who Bush is supporting in Iraq as I am: Sunni or Shia? Let's see: Maliki's Shia government is OK, but Iran's support for Shias isn't. The Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is least likely to be aligned with Iran, is an enemy. But the most likely Shia cleric to be aligned with Iran, al-Hakim, is a friend.  Chalabi, who's a discredited friend of Iran, remains a friend. But it's the foreign jihadists operating under bin Laden's direction in Iraq who are our real enemies—so things are becoming
clearer. Even though there were even fewer of them there before we  invaded. But we killed Zarqawi, who was a Salifist and not really a true blue al Qaeda, so things got better
until they got worse. And Bush thinks Muqtada al-Sadr will attack Detroit now, even though he's not al Qaeda, which is predominately Sunni. The Saudi Wahabists are still our friend even though they're [unofficially] supplying Iraq's Sunni militias, who are  
killing US troops.

I'm sooooo confused.

P.S. Shargash, do you really believe Bush invaded Iraq for Israel's sake?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: joeyess
EMAIL: joeyess@mac.com
IP: 67.52.238.182
URL: 
DATE: 01/13/2007 11:31:50 PM
"They insist we must stay and fight in Iraq or else the Islamofascists--militant muslims keen on building a worldwide Caliphate (think of International Communism with God at the center)--will take over.  A scary vision but it is nonsense.   Ignore for a moment the gulf separating the aspiring Sunni Caliphs from the aspiring Shia Caliphs, there are 800 million muslims who have not bought into this craziness"

Larry, somehow rational people have to distill the above sentences into a Luntzian 3 word phrase that the news media understands and can relate to the American people.  The MSM seems to display an incredible incapacity to understand the dangers of going down the neocon road and instead accept their ideology as conventional wisdom.  This is nuts.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 11:59:55 AM
Leslie asked, "P.S. Shargash, do you really believe Bush invaded Iraq for Israel's sake?"

I believe that transforming the Middle East into pluralistic democracies in order to secure the future of Israel was a key aspect of the neocon vision. I think the PNAC web site is gone now, but they layed that out pretty explicitly in their white papers, if I remember correctly. I think it was certainly #1 in Wolfowitz's and Perle's priorities.

Bush himself may or may not have had Israel as priority #2 (after oil). He also had the dual psychological motivations of revenging the attack on his father and showing his father up by finishing what Bush I was unable to finish. When all the pre-war justifications for the war evaporated, Bush started scrambling for post hoc justifications. Liberating the Iraqis (which I don't believe for an instant) was one of them. Bringing peace through democracy was another. Bush has said "democracies don't attack democracies" (of course that was before Israel attacked Lebananon), and the reference was clearly to Israel. There was also a good bit of chatter from the administration about how the Middle East peace process just dragged out instability, and that decisive action, such as forced regime change, was a better route (Condi's "birth pangs", if you recall the quote).

So, while I'm not sure where Israel sat with Bush personally, I think it was second to oil overall (WMD's, btw, were very, very far down the list).
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Eclaire
EMAIL: chanleyca@aol.com
IP: 207.200.116.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 12:14:33 PM
Good points, joeyess.  But I think human nature loves to have an enemy, someone to loathe, feel superior to, and fight against.  Else why create Satan?

We're about to all fall into "the enemy is islamofascism" trap, but we're not quite there yet.  One could certainly make a better point that the "enemy" is the faceless perpetrators of global climate change, national obesity, environmental degradation and pollution, and economic disparities.  But that would mean we would have to fear large corporate interests, which would be ... unacceptable.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Phillip
EMAIL: philliparmstrong@rogers.com
IP: 74.98.93.84
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 12:31:42 PM
Listening to the Sunday morning shows today... the Republicans are saying winning is defined as a stable government in Iraq that is capable of fighting terrorism?

How do they know when the government is stable? and fighting terrorism? What if there is a coup in the future? There is no way that just securing some neighbourhoods in Baghdad is going to create a stable govenment that can control the entire country. And creating a stable government in this area of the world with these incredible religious, oil and different country interests cross-currents is going to be very difficult, particularly if confrontation with Syria and Iran continues. If a stable government is the goal, the U.S. is going to be in Iraq for a very long time.

I would also question whether this government or form of government is really the appropriate government. The Iraqis government is really a joke. It is not looking out for the entire country and all the minorities. The democratic vote that occured was also a joke because people only voted entirely on secretarian lines. 

This is all being driven by politics. It just gives an opportunity in say four months from now for Bush to say that this surge has not worked because of the Iraqis and therefore it is not our fault and we are leaving. Or gives Bush breathing room to push Iraq on to the next president. The sad part is that the U.S. soldiers are paying the price.

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 12:45:59 PM
Shargash,
PNAC's website is still up. In their 1998 letter to Clinton, Israel and the moderate Middle Eastern states are mentioned as an additional reason to be worried about Saddam Hussein, but not a primary reason. It's difficult to imagine Israel has been an important consideration in Bush's equation to preemptively attack Iraq. Considering the fact that Bush knew Hussein didn't pose a threat and that Iraq had been contained.

<a href="http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: WT
EMAIL: WT@yahoo.com
IP: 216.13.88.86
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 02:18:08 PM
Afghanistan was all CIA and went real well until the money ran out?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.33.79
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 09:39:44 AM
Firstly Larry, let me say if anyone has tried to send any e-mails to the address I supply here, all correspondence prior to Xmas has not been read.....so if it was important please resend it. Hotmail has a 2 month window and I left it for 6 months.

Come on, Larry..."This agreement should include permission for the United States to maintain a joint military/law enforcement base in Iraq dedicated to combating terrorist threats"

What's this?

We've had a billion posts now on the insincerity of the "terrorist angle" and now your at it! Be fair, the reason the US needs presence is bugger all to do with terrorism. Well, retro-terrorism I would accept. I mean its guys like Bush and Cheney who are the biggest terrorists. This whole thing is all to do with dollars and spite.

If the US pulls out, it means OUT. At present, and I'm surprised Bush co hasn't attempted to come clean. But as with the UFOs, they've been bullshiting the people so long, a lynching is the only way back.

Any US involvement in the "policing" of Iraq will create a conflict with the guys who oppose that. Therefore point 2 ["2.  Working through the Arab League, recruit and deploy a genuine multi-national peacekeeping force to police Baghdad."] won't work either. It is too late for "messages". There are unexploded cannons exploding all over the place.

Your point 3 is really important "We have damaged our credibility with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Turkey". But I would say mostly Saudi, second Jordan (but Jordanians see themselves as dogs), while Turkey don't give a shit. They are game players.

"We have all but declared war on Syria and Iran" is another catalyst point. That is where real pain could materialise. I predicted Syria would nuke Israel back in 2001. I did not know when, what size weapon, but I felt that it would happen and would happen just when everyone wasn't expecting it. Thank goodness I'm no prophet. Although....

I know you are trying to say what a lot of people want to hear. The answers, I suspect you already understand, are dismal at the best onset. I am not sure that anything can put the brakes on the internal affairs of other than the realisation of the whole affair of those entangled in the mess.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.225.170
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 01:51:37 PM
Assuming "We can't win militarily in Iraq" could we atleast TRY to install a SECULAR  government? Shargash & others use every venue avaiable to try & drive a wedge between the U.S. & Israel. One tiny predominately Jewish state, 60 miles wide X 120 miles long, surrounded by Islamic countries. A quarter of the earth's population is Muslim. There are 22 Arab countries & another 35 nations which are exclusively or the overwhelming majority are Muslim. Apparantly this isn't enough for you? So much for the left's bogus b.s. about diversity & tolerance. Just when did the U.S. take the turn, to become an advocate for overthrowing secular governments & replacing them with "Islamic Republics"? Bush the 41st & the Pope had a photo finish race to be the first to recognize Bosnia as a "Muslim Republic" when it broke away fron Yugoslavia...Is this our new mission? The Islamization of the world? Only a secular government can attempt to guarantee equal rights.  
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: mboy
EMAIL: thinktwice69@hotmail.com
IP: 140.192.132.90
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 08:34:19 PM
good article and analysis larry. hope you had a good holiday and happy new year. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 06:25:31 PM
guess who- there will never be a middle eastern government that is both friendly to the US and has legitimacy with it's people.You could do ten regime changes.  the person/ regime doesn't exist
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.154.75.190
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 03:23:34 AM
lester, Israel is a middle eastern country that has both legitmacy with its citizens & is friendly to the USA. 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 203.49.222.81
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 08:24:01 AM
That is a moot point, Guess Who.

That is the allegation.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.216.16
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 03:02:43 PM
Thinker, Say what? How about you, lester, or anyone please respond to my originial question: WHY is the USA spending so much in blood, limb & treasure to prop up "Islamic Republics" as opposed to SECULAR governments?? Oh, excuse me I keep forgetting the Decider has decided that of all of our "core values" unbridled democracy trumps seperation of religion & state, etc. We're NOT a democracy, we are a REPUBLIC..if an unbridled religion- based- mob- rule democracy is so  wonderful & worth dying & going broke for why don't we have one? We don't have one because we know its a recipe for disaster, get it???? We're in so deep now, we're just pandering. We threw out the secular baby with the Baa'th water. WE (USA) Do NOT have a CORE VALUE, we have CORE VALUES, it's a package deal. Wonder what the 50--100 yr plan is?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BadTux
EMAIL: badtuxnospam@badtux.org
IP: 24.6.254.15
URL: http://badtux.net
DATE: 01/17/2007 08:44:26 PM
None of these sensible things will be done, for two reasons:

1. They're sensible, and thus Dear leader won't do them.

But more importantly, 

2. They require credibility on the part of the U.S. administration in order to get the various Iraqi factions and surrounding neighboring states to "buy in" to important parts of the program, and U.S. credibility under the current administration is lower than a grasshopper's knees. Bluntly put, nobody believes anything the Bush administration says or does, and nobody will cooperate with the Busheviks because everybody in the Middle East "knows" that the Busheviks are incompetent and evil, thus it will be up to the next administration to clean up this mess -- unless Bush and his entire mess of incompetents are impeached and thrown out of office. President Pelosi, anybody?

-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Da Bears
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/14/2007 12:55:47 PM
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BODY:
<a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/200hawks13_thumb.jpg"><img alt="200hawks13_thumb" title="200hawks13_thumb" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/200hawks13_thumb.jpg" width="200" height="133" border="0" style="float: left; margin: 5px 5px 5px 5px;" /></a><em>By SusanUnPC</em>, who lives, you guessed it, in the Pacific Northwest ... <strong>DA BEARS:</strong> I'm obsessing about the 9-1/2 points the oddsmakers have given to the Bears over my Seahawks.  (Just so you know, it's not just Washingtonians who are fixated on this game. The Seahawks are THE team for all of Alaska, Oregon, Idaho, Montana and even Hawaii.  So too are the Seattle Mariners.) And the Hawks are the team for <a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/299615_hawksfan13.html">Army Master Sgt. Traci Williams</a>, who had Super Bowl tickets last year but had to miss the game because she was in Afghanistan. <a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2003522803.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href, '_blank', 'width=200,height=166,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,toolbar=no,directories=no,location=no,menubar=no,status=no,left=0,top=0'); return false"><img alt="2003522803" title="2003522803" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/2003522803.jpg" width="150" height="124" border="0" style="float: right; margin: 5px 6px 5px 5px;" /></a>Sgt. Williams is in "<a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/299615_hawksfan13.html">enemy territory</a>" again today, this time Chicago.

<strong><em>DA</em> BEAR:</strong> There's another bear on my mind.  Rep. John Murtha.  If you think the Democrats are likely to roll over on Iraq, think again.  If you think nothing can be done to close Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, keep watching.
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EXTENDED BODY:
"<a href="http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=156916">Murtha's Plan to Stop Bush</a>" at <em>The Nation</em>, via <em>Howie In Seattle</em> <a href="http://howieinseattle.blogspot.com/">blog</a>:

<blockquote>When he receives the Bush Administration's $100 billion supplemental spending request for Iraq on February 5, Murtha says "they'll have to justify every cent they want." He'll insist that no money be allocated for an escalation unless the military can meet normal readiness levels. "We should not spend money to send people overseas unless they replenish the strategic reserve," Murtha says. He expects to have one hundred and twenty days to act before the Administration deploys the second phase of additional troops to Iraq. "If he wants to veto the bill," Murtha says of Bush, "he won't have any money."
</blockquote>

"<a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003522994_murtha13.html">Murtha will press for closure of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib</a>," McClatchy Newspapers via <em>The Seattle Times</em>:

<blockquote>The House lawmaker in charge of defense spending said Friday that he intends to force the closure of the Guantánamo Bay military prison and curb U.S. engagement in Iraq, and that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "absolutely" supports his efforts.

Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said Congress shouldn't provide funds for sending more soldiers overseas until the Bush administration takes those steps and others, including restoring the Army's ability to respond to other crises by increasing troop strength of the strategic reserve, those forces able to deploy urgently anywhere.

"We have no ability to deploy and sustain a deployment in Iran or Korea, and the enemy knows this," Murtha said.

Murtha, chairman of the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, said he would push for a plan to pressure the Bush administration to make the changes he seeks to get the money it wants for the Iraq war.

Murtha wants Bush to halt the troop increase he announced Wednesday night and start bringing U.S. forces home. He said he wouldn't cut funds for those already fighting.

He said the best way to control what course the war takes is for Congress to attach conditions to war-spending bills, because Bush is unlikely to veto a bill that provides money to keep fighting.

The Guantánamo military prison, where prisoners have been held without charges and abused, need to be closed to restore U.S. credibility, Murtha said.

If the full House passes Murtha's plan, the measure would need approval by the Senate, where Democrats have a 51-49 majority. While up to a dozen Republican senators have criticized Bush's war plan, it's unclear how much support Murtha's plan would have.

But some Republicans in both houses increasingly are signaling they're uncomfortable with Bush's war policy. House Republicans called an unusual "listening session" Friday to gauge the growing resistance in the party to the president's plan and to allow lawmakers to vent. ... <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003522994_murtha13.html">Read all</a>.
</blockquote>

From "<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/13/13758/8358">Just Because the President’s Deaf ...</a>" by SusanG, front-pager at Daily Kos, Jan. 13, 2007:

<blockquote>
From Bush’s <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/01/20070113-2.html">defensive radio address</a> this morning:

<blockquote>Members of Congress have a right to express their views, and express them forcefully. But those who refuse to give this plan a chance to work have an obligation to offer an alternative that has a better chance for success. To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible.</blockquote>

All righty, then. I’ll play. Off the top of my head, here are just two examples of what "proposing nothing" looks like, starting with: <a href="http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa12_murtha/pr051117iraq.html">John Murtha’s plan</a>:

<UL> <LI> To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces.
<LI> To create a quick reaction force in the region.
<LI> To create an over- the- horizon presence of Marines.
<LI> To diplomatically pursue security and stability in Iraq.</ul></blockquote>


But it will be tough.  On Thursday, Maureen Dowd <a href="http://select.nytimes.com/gst/tsc.html?URI=http://select.nytimes.com/2007/01/10/opinion/10dowd.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26nQ3DTopQ252fOpinionQ252fEditorialsQ2520andQ2520OpQ252dEdQ252fOpQ252dEdQ252fColumnistsQ252fMaureenQ2520Dowd&OP=77ad4553Q2FXQ20%21aXQ2ARoQ5CQ5CQ2AXPEEIXECXCEXQ5CkVQ5EVQ5CQ5EXCElQ5CQ20lexQ2AQ7Eu">wrote</a>:

<blockquote>Teddy Kennedy gave a speech at the National Press Club yesterday (Wednesday) about his new legislation that would require Congressional approval before troop levels can be increased. Afterward, he was asked if he would try to block the escalation with an amendment to an upcoming Iraq spending request.

“The horse will be out of the barn by the time we get there,” Senator Kennedy replied. “The president makes his speech now. We’re going to get the appropriation request probably the end of January, early February.” He said it could take eight more weeks for Congress to act. “By that time, the troops will already be there,” he said. “And then we’ll be asked, are we going to deny the body armor to the young men and women over there?” <strong>In other words, the president will ask us to the prom once he reserves the hotel room.</strong></blockquote>

In "<a href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/frankrich/index.html?inline=nyt-per">He’s in the Bunker Now</a>," NYT columnist Frank Rich today points out that "it will be up to Mr. Bush’s own party to ring down the curtain on his failed policy."  But they'll be led by the likes of the courageous old bear, Jack Murtha.

P.S.  You can talk football here too.
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EXCERPT:

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KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Gary Gelow
EMAIL: mlgelow@comcast.net
IP: 24.19.172.129
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 06:02:08 PM
As with Vietnam, Bush supporters state as fact without agrument, that leaving Iraq would be a disaster, bloodbath, etc.  It didn't happen there and I don't believe it will happen here.  In fact if you remove the cause of the problem (our presence) its more likely violence will settle down quickly.

Also what's wrong with dividing the already defacto divided Iraq into three?  With a plan for oil revenue sharing for the Sunnis it should work.
And no it won't be a cake walk, but certainly between than Bush's disasterous plan.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Tap Duncan
EMAIL: tapduncan@aol.com
IP: 205.188.117.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 06:51:53 PM
Susan, sorry to say that Seattle lost. However, as someone who lives in Il. we weren't exactly WOWWED by their performance today. They just barely squeaked by. Some how it sounds similar to Shrubs new plan. "As long as we just squeak by, we win!" It might work on the football field, but it's a shitty plan for combat. God Bless my brothers in arms for doing the best they can do with the few, the proud, the Marines!!! Semper Fi, Hang Tough, Tap
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick Henry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.113.206
URL: 
DATE: 01/14/2007 08:39:28 PM
Yep..Bears Won..They had the better Quarterback Today..Sharper...The Rest of Players on both teams were pretty evenly matched..Good Defensive Plays..Some good Runs..

Thats Sports..thats nthe GAME..

Now moving on to the game of Politics..and the Players there.. Mutha looks like another tough old Bear in the above picture..Kinda Grizzly..

Glad we got him around With some of that  Old Grizzly Growl..and ALOT of other Good Pople with The TRUE GRIT..to Growl.. also..
People like Lang..Johnson..Susan and many others who Stand up and speak Truth to power..

Who Know Abuse of Office..and deception when they see it..Who Know what the real Facts are   compared to the Lies and Alibis and Excuses we are being told By the Bush administration while They try to Cover up thier FUBARS..and Bad Decisions..while
 Lying about thier REAL MOTIVES..

The REAL WMD here was their ABUSE of Power..and DECEIT..

They Must be held accountabile for The CHAOS they created...the Loss of Life involved and the Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars..
through lack of leadership in Foreign and Domestic Policys..DEPLORABLE..

They should have to testify Under Oath about the Decisions they made..the  Motives..What the real SCHEME (Inner Circle Thinking Was..)..What the President was told...
HOW he was Motivated to Make the Decisions He did...WHO Influenced Him..How the Plans developed.???

.and if there is any indication that this Invasion of Iraq was a Joint National Plan..CovertlY or Overtly..With DUAL Purposes and strategy.. that would Put the United States into a long Term presence in Iraq and the Middle East..since it certainly appeared that Way..and is what we were Told by this Administration..after all of thier Bull headed Planning .."MY WAY WAR."..
and its revealed Stupidity.
( or they Wanted chaos to develop so they could Prolong thier Presence there as "CRISIS MANAGEMENT".to the Sacrifice and DETRIMENT..Of Our TROOPS..

I think Our military has a Right to know the TRUTH..along with thier Familys and the American people..

WHAT Was the "PLAN"..???

.While Good old CONI..whoops I mean Condi.. says.."GEE...WHO COULD HAVE ~ANTICIPATED" all this Sectarian Violence and Growing civil war in  Iraq.???

.With that statement she Proves just How Stupid those Guys are..or How Stupid they think the American People are..

They Shut everyone OUT Like Larry johnson and Others..Who DID Anticipate..and did thier Best to Get the TRUTH OUT..
and Ask the Hard Questions and do the GOOD ANALYSIS..

So now we have a BIG BUSH BAG DADDY BAG of Shit on Our Hands..BULL and Otherwise..

BUSH now says.."Give Me a better Plan.."

Well He's been saying that all along But He NEVERS LISTENS when other Plans are and were Presented..He Has Never changed HIS Administrations Game Plan..Let Rumsfeld run the War..Surrounded Himself with YES MEN..Mocked and Ridiculed his Critics..Used propaganda to Influence Public Opinion..Let Others in his administration attack other percieved Enemies Considered THREATS..Like Joe and Valorie..who were targeted because They appeared to be Destabilizing the NEO CON PLAN..which held the Real Powers of influence in the Bush Administration..and On the Executive..Because he would be the One Giving the Orders..

And They did..and He DID..

I agree with Senator Murtha..Larry.. Pat and others.

The end result of the Regime charge is that the SHIA will dominate by sheer Number in Iraq..They..the Kurds..will cut Deals..and the Challenge is Now to get the SUNNI Groups..to Solve this ARAB/Muslim/ Middle east Problem among themselfs..

Then use Diplomac to deakl with Iran..Solve the Growing Nuclear Proliferation problem..

Have aq Phased Draw down..But maintain a Presence as Murtha recommends..for support and deterrence..

Bushs Hope for saving Face is too Late..He Opened this Can of Worms..His Decisions set this whole Thing In Motion..he has changed the Face of the Middle east..

Too late Now GEORGE...FACE UP...and FESS UP..Like a Man for a Change Mr. President..Mr...Commander in Chief..

By the way TAP..Semper Fi..
The Marines are doing a Good Job ass Usual..but give CREDIT..SUPPORT and a Big thanks to the Unied states Army...Army reserve and National Guard..and all the Men and women Serving All of  US..Over There and around the World..I Hope our congress and nation real;izes that our Troops Deserve the best Leadership and Equipment they can Get..and a Commander in Chief Worthy to lead them..Like GEORGE WASHINGTON..



 NOT a GEORGE BUSH... 

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 03:58:53 AM
Don't close Gitmo, allow the Red Corss and other credible NGO to observe. Impose harsh penalty taxes on the contractor corporations making money underwriting it, for any  Geneva violations/compliance failures.






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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 04:06:54 AM
An independent committee should be started to review guard readiness for disaster relief at home, in particular Katrina.

Lieberman should face civil hearings from Katrina families if need be for trying to block any investigations, served writ or restraining orders...

follow the money.

PS- The sycophant Ralph Nader should be used as a mouthpiece to push Katrina ethics, if he gets in the picture Dems will head him off at the pass...

I'd rather see the entire edifice of bipartisanship fold before Dem/Green unity movement, ideally.

If the Dems won't make the right stand, then it's time to take the party over there first. Do you suppose the man who runs the Lieberman party could order Joe to do the deed? Could Lamont supporters take over the 'CT for Lieberman' apparatus as members and force him to or face ethics hearings?

You must fight it by unconventional means, on this holiday for the memory of MLK.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: spiiderweb
EMAIL: 
IP: 125.212.67.230
URL: http://profile.typekey.com/spiiderweb/
DATE: 01/15/2007 07:40:36 AM
Sorry. Black day for Northwest football.

And I blame Holmgren.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.33.79
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 09:54:29 AM
I see some double standards creeping in here. As I have said in my last couple of entries, and let me spell it out now. The problem is the definition of "our" presence in Iraq. Larry, Susan in one breath are inferring this is some humanitarian effort; Lone Ranger and Tonto to the rescue, while in the other blaming Bushco for keeping the troops in place.

Bushco have always said that the troops are there in a Lone Ranger capacity. Clearly they aren't. My concern is the Democrats are actually saying what the Republicans are saying in a different way. The troops are there to ENSURE US corporate interests are upheld. So, if the World is to be inspired by real change, America will give the booty [corporate interests] away and leave it to the Iraqis. And will China step in?

But as this war, in principle is nothing to do with humanity and everything to do with "interests", Murtha can blow it out of his hiney until he is blue in the face, but nothing will CHANGE!
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 10:50:03 AM
I hope you're right Susan. But I don't see Congress doing anything without a lot of pressure from the people who elected them.

John Edwards: "Silence Is Betrayal, And I Believe It Is A Betrayal Not To Speak Out Against The Escalation Of The War In Iraq”
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 11:55:01 AM
Susan,
The reason why I'm not so sure Democrats will do much, or anyone else, is that Congress has the power to end the war, not just escalation.

See here: <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/09/deployment-funding-limits-congress/" rel="nofollow">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/09/deployment-funding-limits-congress/</a>

That's why, we the people will have to demand that Congress does!
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick henry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.113.206
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 07:56:03 PM
Mr..Murder..Thanks for yourInteresting comments here and the points you make..

Thanks also for Your greetings here when I posted a few days ago..Your "Welcome back" was much appreciated as were Susans..

You raise issues os special interest to me...First..about the National Guard...and its Intended Role Role as the Last Line of Homeland Defense..( A Role now rapidly being Diminished) and Also its role To Aid and Assist The Nation with Disaster relief and The states and Govenors in Time of Emergency or Crisis..

SPOT ON..Mr. Murder..

We Have had on going Disasters all Year long...Katrina...Droughts...Tornedos...Severe storms..Freezing weather and many Domestic Problems that require URGENT Attention,,

Whats happening...Really Crappy orgabnization for Homeland Defense...Hugh waste on Money...Few Taking Domestic Problems Serously...or forming the Task Forces..and Leadership to Co-ordinate things..Identify problems..Prepare all types Disaster responses and Assistance..From security to public Aid..and human assistance..Medical..Logistical..Food..water..Shelters..etc..


Whats happening...FOCUS on IRAQ...More Troopers and gyard going there...We Tell the enemy we are going to do..What Our Plans are..Old generals on TV showing Maps..they dont Need any Intel..WE TELL THEM EVERYTHING..

All they have to do is Prepare..

So Now...They are preparing..The Iraqis are stirring the Post..executid saddam on a Holiday...Got the Sunnis all Pissed off..Riled Up..ready for a Fight..The 
Insurgents have time and warning to prepare...The other Middle East Muslim  Countrys are wondering if they should get into the Fight...

There will be atough Fight when The "SURGE" Starts...we could have Heavy casualitys That to all The Pre Game Hype and Gaming..

And Bush will take more and more of Our National guard for Replacements..and We are even More  Weakened and Defensless Nationally and Militarily..Its a Sucker Game..Run By Con Men and Cheaters..

Yes Sir..we should have reacted better to katrina and Peoples Suffering..We Should have set up Good Disaster relief..and REsponsible use of US Tax dollars...Food..water ..Shelter..clothing..Medical Aid..getting hospitals Running...Good LEO resposne..with Oversight and Supervision...Joint Guard and LEO Operations and Asistance..In a humain  Responsible Way..

Should have set up Job Corps...Programs...Man Power Training.. and Trained ..Educated and Paid People down there..so they learn Trades...Carpertry..Electric..Clean Up..Running Hvy Equipment etc...so they could help rebuild ther Communitys faster and Learn a trasde for Future Economic and National benefit so they could Help Respond in Future Local and National disasters..


Yes Mr.Murder..today..On Martin Luther Kings Birthday..We should be Thinking..honoring and Remembering the Message and the Man.

.None Violent Protest..FREE SPEECH..Unity and Equality ..Insuring that the Freedoms of the constitution and Equality of ALL MEN..were Built on..and Carried Out..so that we became the nation The Founding fathers fought For..

As a White Man..I share The DREAM..and Will until we as a Nation Understand the Words..

BROTHER and SISTER..

FREEDOM..DIGNITY..RESPECT

when we GREET  Nieghbors..of any Race.or Belief..

We Cant Do it over There if we Cant do it here..

Our Tax dollars should be Spent on OUR Citizens..and Job cretion Begans at Home..

Its Time..To reach the Mountain top together..

So we Can all Look Over..

Like the Good Man Said..
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.54.185
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 09:55:53 PM
Patrick, turning "we should's" into "we did's" is the summary failing of our political 'masters' past and present.

Leslie, you say "Congress has the power to end the war" [which, arguably, it isn't part of. Sadr has laid down the guantlet if the US wants to get serious].

Are you suggesting that the US will give up all those strategic assets after spending all that money?

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick henry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.113.206
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 01:01:40 PM
Adding To My above Comments..I am also glad to see an ntelligent..Articulate Man Like Senator  OBAMA..from Illinois..(.Where     the Great Lincoln debates took Place)adding    his Voice ..and I hope He is running for President..Thats TRUE Democracy ..and Martin Luther King would be Proud to see The day when we began to have the equality and Representation Written into, Our Constitution..

Our nation needs Senator Obamas voice Now..just as it Needed MLKs Voice Then..

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 02/06/2007 02:27:34 PM
Susuan,

Hasselbeck's dad blocked a kick for the Raiders in the '83 Super Bowl.

Join the Dark Side.
Just Win, Baby!
-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Lying, Even Though It's Over
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/15/2007 02:02:32 PM
-----
BODY:
<a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/450hawks15_jt_boeing_return2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href, '_blank', 'width=450,height=303,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,toolbar=no,directories=no,location=no,menubar=no,status=no,left=0,top=0'); return false"><img alt="450hawks15_jt_boeing_return2" title="450hawks15_jt_boeing_return2" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/450hawks15_jt_boeing_return2.jpg" width="400" height="269" border="0"  /></a>

<a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/photos/photo.asp?PhotoID=111668">Seattle P.I. Caption</a>: A Seahawks fan, refusing to let go of the season, lies in front of the team's charter bus at Boeing Field after the team's return from Chicago. Police removed the fan. (January 14, 2007)

Also LYING in front of the bus, which has already driven over them -- OH HELL! WITH THEIR PANTS ON FIRE, LYING, LYING EVERY DAY!:  George H.W. Bush and Condi and John McCain and Joe <em>LIE</em>berman and the rest of the self-deluded, glory-obsessed, ego-motivated, personally craven bastards running the game even though the SEASON IS OVER!
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
First, there are the ENABLERS of lying -- and, in the last paragraph, the pathetic proof for just how hungrily, greedily the ENABLED scarf up the lies:

<blockquote>Our glorious leader (from the <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-524-2546344-524,00.html">Times</a> of London ...)

Few neoconservatives can claim to have had as much influence on the course of the Iraq war as the trio of scholars in the Kagan family, writes Sarah Baxter.

Frederick Kagan, 36, is the author of Choosing Victory, a blueprint for the surge adopted by President George W Bush. Just as everybody had begun writing off the influence of the neocons at the White House, genial, chubby-faced Frederick gave the muscular intellectuals a lease of life.

It was at Camp David last June that Kagan, a military historian and fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, outlined his plans for pouring more troops into Iraq to Bush and his war cabinet.

Donald Rumsfeld, the then defence secretary, was unimpressed, but Kagan’s views got another hearing when Bush was searching for ways to ditch the seemingly defeatist recommendations of James Baker’s Iraq Study Group. <strong>“Wow, you mean we can still win this war?” a grateful Bush reportedly said.</strong>

-- <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011914.php">Josh Marshall</a>, <em>Talking Points Memo</em>, January 14, 2007</blockquote>

Hey, Fred, why don't you just hand him a bottle?!

Then there's THE PANTS ON FIRE PART, "<a href="http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16460924.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp">Administration leaving out important details on Iraq</a>" from McClatchy Newspapers today, via <a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/">Atrios</a> and <a href="http://howieinseattle.blogspot.com/">Howie In Seattle</a>. Please note, as you read the opening paragraph, that this is NOT an op-ed piece: 

<blockquote><strong>President Bush and his aides, explaining their reasons for sending more American troops to Iraq, are offering an incomplete, oversimplified and possibly untrue version of events there that raises new questions about the accuracy of the administration's statements about Iraq.</strong>

President Bush unveiled the new version on Wednesday during his nationally televised speech announcing his new Iraq policy.

"When I addressed you just over a year ago, nearly 12 million Iraqis had cast their ballots for a unified and democratic nation," he said. "We thought that these elections would bring Iraqis together - and that as we trained Iraqi security forces, we could accomplish our mission with fewer American troops.

"But in 2006, the opposite happened. The violence in Iraq - particularly in Baghdad - overwhelmed the political gains Iraqis had made. Al-Qaida terrorists and Sunni insurgents recognized the mortal danger that Iraq's election posed for their cause. And they responded with outrageous acts of murder aimed at innocent Iraqis.

"They blew up one of the holiest shrines in Shia Islam - the Golden Mosque of Samarra - in a calculated effort to provoke Iraq's Shia population to retaliate," Bush said. "Their strategy worked. Radical Shia elements, some supported by Iran, formed death squads. And the result was a vicious cycle of sectarian violence that continues today."

That version of events helps to justify Bush's "new way forward" in Iraq, in which U.S. forces will largely target Sunni insurgents and leave it to Iraq's U.S.-backed Shiite government to - perhaps - disarm its allies in Shiite militias and death squads.

<strong>But the president's account understates by at least 15 months</strong> when Shiite death squads began targeting Sunni politicians and clerics. It also ignores the role that Iranian-backed Shiite groups had in death squad activities prior to the Samarra bombing.

Blaming the start of sectarian violence in Iraq on the Golden Dome bombing <strong>risks policy errors</strong> because it underestimates the depth of sectarian hatred in Iraq and overlooks the conflict's root causes. The Bush account also fails to acknowledge that Iranian-backed Iraqi Shiite groups stoked the conflict.

President Bush met at the White House in November with the head of one of those groups: Abdul Aziz al-Hakim of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. SCIRI's Badr Organization militia is widely reported to have infiltrated Iraq's security forces and to be involved in death squad activities.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recited Bush's history of events on Thursday in fending off angry questioning from Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., about why Rice had offered optimistic testimony about Iraq during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in October 2005.

[...]

She cited the version again in an appearance later that day before the House Foreign Affairs Committee. "This is a direct result of al-Qaida activity," she said, asking House members not to consider Iraq's sectarian violence as evidence that Iraqis cannot live together.

Bush's national security adviser Stephen Hadley used the same version of events in an appearance Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press."

Much like the administration's pre-war claims about Saddam's alleged ties to al-Qaida and purported nuclear weapons program, <strong>the claims about the bombing of the Shiite mosque in Samarra ignore inconvenient facts and highlight questionable but politically useful assumptions.
</strong>
No one disagrees that the February bombing of the Golden Dome shrine was a pivotal moment. In the days following the attack, armed Shiites stormed Sunni mosques and neighborhoods, killing hundreds. Baghdad's Sunni residents responded by arming themselves, and Sunni insurgents set off car bombs in Shiite neighborhoods. By October, the monthly death toll was reaching into the thousands.

U.S. diplomats, reporters and military and intelligence officers began reporting that Shiite death squads were targeting Sunni clerics and former officials of Saddam Hussein's Sunni regime at least 15 months before the Samarra bombing.

Then-Secretary of State Colin Powell urged a U.S. offensive against radical Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia in 2004. But he was overruled by then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, then-defense secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney. They argued against fighting a two-front war against Sunni insurgents and Shiite militants.

The concerns about Shiite militias grew after the Jan. 30, 2005, elections that brought the Shiite-led government of then-Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari to power. Journalists in Iraq, the CIA station, the U.S. Embassy and the U.S. military all reported throughout 2005 that evidence was mounting that Jaafari's government was incorporating Shiite militias and death squads into the Iraqi army and police.

<strong>A year before the Samarra bombing</strong>, Hannah Allam, writing for what was then Knight Ridder Newspapers, reported that Iraq could be headed toward civil war. Knight Ridder was purchased by The McClatchy Co. last June. ... <a href="http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16460924.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp">READ ALL</a>.
</blockquote>

These bastards don't even know that they're lying in the street -- flat as a pancake -- and the season is really, really over. Really.  Ask Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren.  Or ask Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE).  Atrios links to <em>Connecticut Blog</em>'s "<a href="http://connecticutblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/chuck-hagel-bitchslaps-lieberman-over.html">Chuck Hagel bitchslaps Lieberman over scare comments</a>" on yesterday's <em>Meet The Press</em>:

<blockquote>[...]

Good ol' Holy Joe went back to the "Dick Cheney well of scare tactics" by ONCE AGAIN linking 9/11 and Iraq (who's STILL buying that line), criticizing anyone who disagrees with the President (which would be a majority of the public), and claiming the other Iraq proposals "retreat" and "defeat" (a.k.a. cut and run).

<a href="http://connecticutblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/chuck-hagel-bitchslaps-lieberman-over.html">VIDEO</a></blockquote>

<a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/357092282_45379351e2.jpg"><img alt="357092282_45379351e2" title="357092282_45379351e2" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/357092282_45379351e2.jpg" width="350" height="266" border="0"  /></a>

I checked <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16577874/"><em>Meet The Press</em>'s transcript</a>, and here's what Hagel told Tim Russert and <em>LIE</em>berman:

<blockquote>SEN. HAGEL:  First, as I said before, I am not, nor any member of Congress that I’m aware of, Tim, is advocating defeat.  <strong>That’s ridiculous, and I’m offended that any responsible member of Congress or anyone else would even suggest such a thing.  Senator Lieberman talks about his children and grandchildren.  We all have children and grandchildren.  He doesn’t have a market on that</strong>, nor do any of my colleagues.  We’re all concerned about the future of this country.  But we have an honest disagreement here, and that’s what democracies are about.

Now, the fact is we can talk all we want, and we can go to all the specialists in the world, the fact is, the Iraqi people will determine the fate of Iraq.  The people of the Middle East will determine their fate.  Now, when we continue to interject ourselves in a situation that we never have understood, we’ve never comprehended, and I think after four years it’s becoming quite clear of that, that tells us something very, very clearly.  And we now have to devise a way to find some political consensus with our allies, especially the people in the Middle East, that is going to require to find a political framework for some progress with the Israeli-Palestinian issue.  It’s going to require listening to our allies in the Middle East.

You know, Tim, I hear this talk about generals and military involvement.  The two top American generals in Iraq in November and December, the last 60 days, both in open testimony and interviews took exactly the opposite approach of what President Bush was talking about on Wednesday night.  Now, someone is, is not listening here.  There is a major disconnect.  And we talk about the future for our country.  The future of the Middle East as a region is in play now at a very, very defining time.  That’s what we should be thinking about.  We need to get out of the bog of where we are of tactical thinking.  Of course 50,000 troops in Baghdad are not going to turn that around.  That is a tribal sectarian civil war, and we need to do everything we can with some smart thinking.

Let’s just take one thing.  Why not take American troops, put them on the border?  I hear a lot from this administration about this border being porous, all the terrorists leaking in there.  The terrorist problem isn’t the biggest problem today in, in Iraq.  Are terrorists there?  Yes.  It is Iraqis killing Iraqis, Tim.  It’s Shias killing Shias.  That’s the biggest problem, that’s not going to be solved by the American military.
</blockquote>

I don't know if Chuck Hagel is, as Atrios called him, "<a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_14_atrios_archive.html#116879976074662687">the last honest man</a>," but he's in sync with the vast majority of Americans.

Then there's "<a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_14_atrios_archive.html#116888511914932778">[m]ore bullshit from St. McCain, the patron saint of liars</a>," with Atrios linking to this <em>Horse's Mouth</em> <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/01/post.php">blog post</a>:

<blockquote><strong>MCCAIN'S LATEST RUSE:</strong> IF BUSH "SURGE" PLAN FAILS, REMEMBER THAT I WANTED EVEN MORE TROOPS SENT!

[...]

So now we have McCain being "equivocal" about whether he thinks the President's "surge" is adequate. And McCain's so worried that it may not constitute enough troops that he's spoken about it to Patraeus, who's "assured" him that if worst comes to worst, he can "ask for more."

But hang on a second. McCain in the past has said unequivocally that he thought the right number of troops would be 20,000 -- which by the way is slightly less than what Bush has proposed sending. And not only that, but McCain has volunteered this number as being the right amount.

Proof after the jump. ...</blockquote>

<a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/299701_hbar15.html">Some teams KNOW they lost</a>.  Sure, some blame gets passed around, but they know the season's over and all they can do is do better next time out.

<blockquote>The Seahawks played well enough to win Sunday against the Chicago Bears. But in the end, they didn't ...

[...]

"It's disappointing," Peterson said. "We wanted to go back to the Super Bowl. We're the defending NFC champs. We played like it. We just didn't get it done when we had to."
</blockquote>

<a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/299771_hawk15.html">They didn't get it done</a>. Refreshing.  Honest.  It's OVER, and they know it.  And they're able to admit it.

The lies and reshuffling of the deck chairs on the <em>Titanic</em> by the Bush team are too numerous to list in this one post.  Add your own, and don't hold back.
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 02:14:55 PM
Don't hold back Susan! :-)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 02:22:28 PM
How about the Bushit on 60 Minutes last night, in which Bush admits all his reasons for war with Iraq were lies. Only Bush and Pelley [60 Minutes host] don't ever use the L word:

"You know better than I do that many Americans feel that your administration has not been straight with the country, has not been honest. To those people you say what?" Pelley asks.

"On what issue?" the president replies. "Like the weapons of mass destruction?"

"No weapons of mass destruction," Pelley says.

"Yeah," Bush says.

"No credible connection between 9/11 and Iraq," Pelley says.

“Yeah,” the president replies.

“The Office of Management and Budget said this war would cost somewhere between $50 billion and $60 billion and now we're over 400,” Pelley says.

“I gotcha. I gotcha. I gotcha,” Bush replies.

“The perception, Sir, more than any one of those points, is that the administration has not been straight with…,” Pelley says.

“Well, I strongly disagree with that, of course,” Bush says. “So I strongly reject that this administration hasn’t been straight with the American people. The minute we found out they didn’t have weapons of mass destruction, I was the first to say so."

<a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/13/60minutes/main2358754_page3.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/13/60minutes/main2358754_page3.shtml</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 03:34:50 PM
When Atrios refers to the "last honest man", he is referring to Lieberman. I can't remember the exact context of the quote or who said it, but during the CT primary, someone (I think an inside-the-beltway pundit) referred to Lieberman as the last honest man, as he bemoaned Lieberman's loss in the primary. Given the way Lieberman lied his way through the primary (not to mention the general election and after), the epithet stuck.

It WAS lovely to see Lieberman bitch slapped by Hagel. It can't happen too often, IMO. It is too bad Lamont didn't run a better campaign in the general election. With Allen and Santorum gone, Lieberman may be the biggest slimeball left in the senate (well, there is Stevens from AK, and Imhofe, so he is not without competition). 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick henry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.113.206
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 04:51:31 PM
Susan..

In the Game of Football..You have a Set Time limit..there are Rules and there are Referees..calling the fouls and Penalizing the Players and teams..

In the political game..The Bush team made the rules and owned the Referees.and wont set a time limit..or Penalitys..no Foul Plays....No Time limit..

Just PLAY THE GAME..

To Entertain the EMPEROR..

and the "Game"" is costing the U.S. Taxpayers .$100,000 a Minute..and the Players are getting KILLED and Maimed..in Bushs deadly REAL WORLD game..

Why..??  And Who's getting all that Money..??

Its INSANE...

Like Murtha Says.."JUST PLAIN CRAP.."

History repeating itself..

And a Captain at the Helm of the ship of state..

Now Looking more and More Like the TITANIC..

Ironic that Half the United States is FROZEN..Crops are freesing..thousands are out of Power..and Bush is doing every thing He can to Piss off the People who supply Our Oil for Heat..and Commerce..

Excuse Me...Mr. President..

THE TITANIC IS SINKING..

Or is that an OIL TANKER that You and Your Crew are now Sailing..??

Leaving the Passengers on the Titanic to fend for themselfs..

While YOU Have beeen Playing Your  "GAMES"..in Your Fantasy World..

Remember Your PDB..Mr. president..."Bin Laden determined to Attack the United States.."..

All that intel being gathered by Government Agents..??

Sorry Mr. president..you Must have still been to busy doing your VICTORY DANCE..to Take Notice..and none of your handlers Told you what to Do...

Not until they told you to Invade Iraq that Is..

Your "Justifiable War"

Aftwer all..Saddam was a BAD GUY"..Right..??

and You were going to be a "HERO.."

Since you got out of going to Viet Nam with the rest of your Generation..eho earned thier CAB's..Medals..purple Hearts..and like todays Military Personnel..are the real HEROS..

you are no "HERO" Mr. president..you got our troops into an un`necessary and costly War..

No Mr. Pesident..You are actually more like a NERO..



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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 05:54:00 PM
Glenn Greenwald advises us to beware a flat-as-a-pancake Bush, which may be the most dangerous Bush yet.

<a href="http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/01/collapse-of-bush-presidency-poses.html" rel="nofollow">http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/01/collapse-of-bush-presidency-poses.html</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Horace D
EMAIL: Billdone11722@cs.com
IP: 172.149.3.21
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 07:53:50 PM
Surge, surge, surge aka the '10% solution'.  Currently, approximately 200,000 soldiers fight for 'democracy' in Iraq [roughly US troops + foriegn troops + paid mercenaries (i.e. Blackwater)].  So, the President's solution is to add 10% more (20,000 troops).  Even assuming these extra troops perform 100% efficient, things will merely get 10% better in Iraq.  Will 10% be worth the continuing carnage of American soldiers? Don't look to the Democrats for help.  They will sit idly by as they did when the gov't suspended habeas corpus, opened mail, banned the novel "America Deceived" from Amazon, stole private lands, conducted illegal wire-taps and continues wars in the Middle East based on a false-flag event known as 9/11.  If the Democrats cannot stop the current 10% increase in this war, then they will never stop 100% of this war. 
Only remaining link (until the gov't pulls the novel off Google Books):
<a href="http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0" rel="nofollow">http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BrendaStewart
EMAIL: stormyweather1@hotmail.com
IP: 65.7.56.185
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 08:13:30 PM
Seriously, can the st. of Conn. recall leiberman?  If they can, I suggest they get right on it!  He is such an shameful man.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.30
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 09:23:27 PM
The arrogance of CIC George Armstrong Bush.  He'll do to America what Custer did to the 7th Cav.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 10:20:48 PM
Hi friends, late to the thread today.

Today's holiday marks an important time in our country, when we moved America towards a new era.

We had to face the segregation issue, those who hold bodies of faith as belief systems would probably agree it happened for a purpose.

The purpose was to model our policy abroad. Without learning from that era, we are bound to trespass the legacy MLK.

We're in Viet Nam revisited. Beyond Iraq, we must addresss worker equity, voting rights, and government transparency worldwide.

The same issues MLK was killed over here, are the issues that help shape and mold the dialog and become recruitment base for terror. The failure to answer the honroable equity of a person's labor and opportunity can be shaped to destructive means. In the same way IED can be used to draw petroleum and tap a resource or to attack others and kill innocent persons indiscriminantly.

Unless we right these wrongs, on the table, with legal dialog, we fight in vain. With a lack of restraint towards PC language, or the will of certain select allies, those who do not abide by such a creed, we must make new the language of fairness and help level the playing field there or we lose our jobs and meaning over here.

Otherwise we're pouring fuel onto a fire and digging deeper hole. 

  James Earl Ray's brother lived in East St.Louis. Upon his release from jail he showed up there with a load of money, new shiny suits, and a new car. How did a convicted felon come across enough money to drive several states away, know to stake out the exact locale of where one Martin Luther King Jr. was staying, and have enough cash to maintain an observation and sniper's nest directly across from where he would be in Memphis?

  The family who lived upstairs of James Earl Ray's brother, I knew. Rev.Robert Byler was a deceased lay minister who died of cancer complications. His devoted wife Ann survived him and helped raise their  grandchildren. I was a friend of his, and as she aged, and he was old enough to be out of the house on his own, she was looking for a place back from her home to stay in her final years, closer to her great grandchildren.

  In weather such as the recent spell, we went North to East.St.Louis, in a snow/ice sheet a half foot to a foot thick. We went a few days after the semis wore a trail on I 55 and the sky cleared, on one of my days off, for her to visit with friends and relative. The only time we were at concern was changing lanes out of the highway ruts.

  She moved up there shortly thereafter, and passed away. She had a wonderful laugh, her only fault was smoking, and she remained true to Robert's memory.

  The day after MLK was shot in Memphis, the FBI kicked their door open upstairs of Ray's brother. They were quite alarmed, she slept nearest the bed edge, he afforded her this as a courtesy. On such an entrance she had to try and hide behind him, in an era where it was highly inappropriate to be seen such. She made some snappy comments towards such rudeness, and at other times in interview...

  They only asked some questions, and let them be, after a brief lookaround. To the extent he actually answered their inquiries, in an era where the 'honor system' and 'buddy system' of vernacular existed, just past a time where wise guys were once an idol, it could be hard to imagine exactly what was said.

  Nevertheless, it remains a fact James Earl Ray drove a new car around, flashed money with glee in the backyard barbeques they had, drinking and showing off in the brief time before going to do what he did.

  How did a loser of an ex-con come across such a money trail, and what Ford dealership hooked him up with a brand new ride?

  No doubt he left enough money behind for his Brother to take up some snakey, sneakey ways. Enough so to hold onto the other to make certain the patsy held his story right.

   How did the FBI immediately have dibs on James Earl Ray's brother, and sting his abode, on the other's leaving the scene of the crime?

   Too mcuh coincidence does match for this to have been one person's act. It was a conspired outcome. Or at least we felt so talking about it.

   Why will the National Archive refuse this information towards the family surviviors? Neither killer or victim or key witnesses are alive, or their immediate next of kin legal executors.

    What interests in Southern Illinois may still hold ties to such a coverup? Perhaps now that Democrats are once again a majority Director Mueller would care to clarify some of these points, an independent commission can be set up, the Congressional Black Caucus would be more than willing to see that it is staffed, funded, and chaired respectfully.

The Bylers moved here, to nearby Tomato, Arkansas in later years. They spent most of their time here, with her husband doing honest farm work, either living next to the Bungees elevators near Barfield or in Tomato or on the State Line, until in his later days he needed outpatient respiratory care.

  The photos she kept of the various outdoor barbeques and block parties, that one picture, of James Earl Ray in a suit and tie, remains something from and literal black and white era bygone.

   Time has passed, I may be getting her husband and son's name transposed, as she also talked of her beloved Richard, who preceded his parent his parents in death, a good ol' boy who also faced cancer. She was a great woman and showed courage in loss. She wished no person would lose their closest loved ones, and felt for those who did.
   
   That is part what today's observance now marks.

   

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.54.185
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 10:30:49 PM
Susan, after reading your piece....WHAT'S NEW?

I have said in recent posts, so one more time won't hurt, everyone's doing their own bit of lying.

The war is being pitched by all sides as being "humanitarian", while the strategic asset bit is being down played to nothing. And that is no surprise. If the truth was revealed by either side it would go like this.

"We the American people are in Iraq to sure up our corporate interests. That is our number one and only priority. We don't overly care what happens to the Iraqi people as a result of our engagement, but for the most part we will try and behave fairly towards those not out to make trouble. Naturally we would like a stable civil base to work with. For the following reasons. We need reliable slaves to support the infrasture our corporations impose. Trade can get really tricky in times of civil war, so we can lose money (even with the stocks games). The New World order is way off schedule (even including the current illuminati view that war keeps traders sharp), so far off schedule that politicians have given up using the term more or less."

The reason every US politician (who make all the war decisions) have a vested interest in the corporation to be "safe" and functional all over is, in one way or another, THEY are the corporations.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.54.185
URL: 
DATE: 01/15/2007 10:40:15 PM
Great piece MR M - about Martin Luther King.

Have a think about this.

Lets say that MLK was told the only way for him to lead his people to the promised land, was for him to be martyred. He, then was faced with 3 choices. Either he was to stage his own death in a symbolic way. He would be killed when he was not ready. Or he could go underground. He could give up his public life to protect his skin.

Looking at what Mr King said (and his body language) in his final speech and accounts of his final moments after that speech, what do you think?

Question is, who was behind it?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 04:05:45 AM
He had already been stabbed, he was dealing with complications from that. King knew his time was short in that sense already and it did not stop his courageous call.

As for who helped Ray do it, Hoover sat on that.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 05:44:37 AM
Meanwhile, Libby is being thrown under the bus, Cheney will be a witness, and the 5th/pardonwagon gains another passenger...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 12:24:47 PM
Interesting article from an Iranian-American here -- <a href="http://www.progressive.org/node/4253." rel="nofollow">http://www.progressive.org/node/4253.</a> We're being sold a bill of goods on Iran, and both political parties and the media are parties to the snow job. Even Howard Dean was on TV the other day saying, "Iran is the real problem. Maybe we invaded the wrong country."

If anyone expects Democrats to stop, or even impede, the madness of a war of aggression against Iran, they are hoping for a lot.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/16/2007 02:17:35 PM
Mr. M, here's a good article on James Earl Ray by J. J. Maloney, a gifted writer and longtime crime reporter with whom I had a writing association until his untimely death in 1999.

<a href="http://www.crimemagazine.com/Assassinations/james.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.crimemagazine.com/Assassinations/james.htm</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 03:56:25 PM
If memory serves right, I believe I was told they lived in off Carondolet... considered part of East St. Louis.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 203.49.222.81
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 04:06:15 AM
Thankyou Mr M, for clearing that up.

I knew it was Hoover...but for a different reason. Also I don't necessarily see Hoover as the "bad man" there.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 203.49.222.81
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 08:41:42 AM
Nice link Susan, but it presents more questions than answers.

I shall research this more.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/17/2007 02:48:18 PM
J.J. was nominated for a Pulitzer many times based on his investigative pieces for the Kansas City Star.  He never got past having murdered a man when he was a teenager -- horrible crime -- but the literature editor at the KC Star believed in him and got him out early, and he wrote, wrote, wrote (novels, exquisite poetry, and mostly newspaper investigative pieces) for the rest of his life.  No more legal troubles or crimes.  (The opposite of Norman Mailer's experience, and proof that, once in a rare while -- probably very rarely -- it works to release a talented person who can contribute to society.)  He was an interesting person to get to know.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 02/06/2007 02:26:11 PM
Susan, i posted a link in a thread upstairs, a hate crime from long ago occurred...

the victim's young brother traced the steps of his brother, only to find out a key witness/suspect was still alive, despite the FBI being told he was dead and not vetting this via death certificate.

The former cop in Mississippi now faces charges.

It took citizen journalists, one of them a family member, to find this out.

Hoover had reasons to sit on the info, he tried to ignore civil rights enforcement as best could be done.


-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: 'Round The Blogs: Iraq, Stimson, Libby 
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/16/2007 01:01:13 PM
-----
BODY:
<strong>UPDATE:</strong> Great news. <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Former_Reagan_Navy_Secretary_to_deliver_0116.html">Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) will deliver the Democrats' response</a> to Bush's SOTU next Tuesday.

<strong>TOP POST, on Iraq</strong>, from <em>No Quarter</em> regular Leslie, originally posted at BoomanTribune.com.  And, despite the title, she is <em>so</em> not confused:

<blockquote><a href="http://www2.boomantribune.com/story/2007/1/16/12944/9569">Confused</a>

Is anyone else as confused as I am about who Bush is supporting in Iraq: Sunni or Shia? Let's see: US support for Maliki's Shia government is OK, but Iran's support for Shias isn't. The Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who is least likely to be aligned with Iran, is our enemy. But the most likely Shia cleric to be aligned with Iran, al-Hakim, is our friend. Chalabi, who's a discredited friend of Iran, remains our friend. But it's the foreign jihadists operating under bin Laden's direction in Iraq who are our  real enemies--so things are becoming clearer. Even though there were even fewer of them in Iraq before we invaded. But we killed Zarqawi, who was a Salifist and not really a true blue al Qaeda, so things got better until they got worse. And Bush thinks Muqtada al-Sadr will attack Detroit any minute, even though he's not al Qaeda, which is predominately Sunni. The Saudi Wahabists are still our friends even though they're [unofficially] supplying Iraq's Sunni militias, who are killing US troops.

I'm sooooo confused. -- Leslie</blockquote>

NEXT, STIMSON v. BILL OF RIGHTS ET AL. and the LIBBY TRIAL:
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
<strong>STIMSON v. BILL OF RIGHTS ET AL.: </strong>I hope you saw Keith Olbermann's segment last night on Pentagon Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Charles Stimson, an opponent of the U.S. Constitution (what's left of it). Keith had the video of Stimson's nasty remarks about the top-drawer law firms around the country who have stepped up and helped defend detainees.  (Sadly, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3719710/">MSNBC not only doesn't have</a> Monday's transcript up yet, they don't even have last Friday's transcript up!)  This morning, <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011950.php">Josh Marshall adds</a>:

<blockquote>USAToday <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20070115/cm_usatoday/anappallingthreat">editorializes</a> about Pentagon Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Charles Stimson and <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2007_01_07.php#011909">his attacks on the rule of law</a>. Why hasn't this guy been fired yet? Has anybody asked Secretary Gates about Stimson's efforts to shut down trials for Guantanamo detainees? How about Tony Snow? Anyone in the White House press corps thought to pose this question yet?</blockquote>

<strong>LIBBY TRIAL: </strong><em><a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/">Firedoglake</a></em> blog is doing a bang-up job covering the Libby trial, which begins today with <em>voir dire</em>, and is also providing educational posts on how federal trials are conducted (the latest is "<a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/16/libby-trial-primer-evidence-ii/">Libby Trial Primer: Evidence II</a>").

<blockquote><a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/16/libby-trial-pregame-show/">Libby Trial Pregame Show</a>

By Pachacutec @ 7:00 am

[...]

My approach to your coverage will be informed by my training in clinical psychology.   Yes, for the process of jury selection, you get a shrink's eye view, with the caveat that in my professional life, I don't specialize in forensic matters or jury selection.  I will sustain writing under my online pseudonym out of respect and deference toward my clients in real life:  I keep my blogging separate from my professional life.  ...</blockquote>

<blockquote><a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/16/wake-up-its-libby-time/">Wake Up! It’s Libby Time…</a>

By Christy Hardin Smith @ 5:30 am

Jury selection begins today in the Libby trial.  Pachacutec will be on the scene to report for us today — in the courtroom, watching the proceedings, and taking note of how things move forward as the jury of peers that will sit in judgment of Scooter Libby is selected.  

That's right, boys and girls, it's Libby time.

While we're waiting for some on scene reporting, I thought a recap of some of the Libby news from the last few days would be of interest for everyone.

– First off, <a href="http://www.talkleft.com/">Jeralyn Merritt of TalkLeft</a> will be answering questions <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/01/12/DI2007011201640.html">live on the WaPo this afternoon at 2 pm ET</a>.  You can submit questions prior to the chat, so please do — I'm sure you can all think of some great questions which need answering about the Cheney cabal's conduct.

– Speaking of Vice President Cheney, if you haven't read <a href="http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0112nj1.htm">Murray Waas' superb piece</a> on the Libby case, Cheney's role in pressing Libby to get the word out on former Amb. Joe Wilson, and the looming questions about Libby's plausibility in the story that he wove on two separate occasions for FBI agents, and then later on two other separate occasions for the grand jury…and whether that constituted an attempt to obstruct and thwart a federal criminal investigation into the heart of this scandal.  <a href="http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0112nj1.htm">But Murray says it better</a>: ...
</blockquote>

<a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/16/wake-up-its-libby-time/">Read all of Christy's post</a>.

UPDATE: I just spotted <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/leak-scandal">this bookmarked post</a> at <em>Think Progress</em>. It is a bit out of date, but may still be a handy resource:

<blockquote><strong>23 Administration Officials Involved In Plame Leak</strong>

The cast of administration characters with known connections to the outing of an undercover CIA agent [FOLLOWED BY THIS LIST, <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/leak-scandal">EACH NAME LINKED</a> at <em>Think Progress</em>]:

Karl Rove
I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby
Condoleezza Rice
Stephen Hadley
Andrew Card
Alberto Gonzales
Mary Matalin
Ari Fleischer
Susan Ralston
Israel Hernandez
John Hannah
Scott McClellan
Dan Bartlett
Claire Buchan
Catherine Martin
Jennifer Millerwise
David Wurmser
Colin Powell
Karen Hughes
Adam Levine
Bob Joseph
Vice President Dick Cheney
President George W. Bush</blockquote>
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BrendaStewart
EMAIL: stormyweather1@hotmail.com
IP: 65.7.35.56
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 03:07:44 PM
Thanks Leslie to adding to the conversation at booman trib.  It was a welcome addition to the whole site.  hugs.... 
As far as Webb doing the great privilege of responding,...I welcome it highly.  HOpe he gets a standing ovation for his efforts.  I just know he will do great!  He is already proving to be a great addition to the senate with his grilling of dear condi last week.  I sure did enjoy the frustration on her face and the stuttering I felt I heard coming from her mouth.  She is nothing compared to the whole of Webb and the likes of his thoughts.  She would have to answer her questions in written commentary after first talking to the WH..or justice dept....take your pick. 
I would love to see Webb do more in combating this adm now rather than having to wait another week...;o) 
As Americans, we have a duty to combat the nonsense coming from the WH nowadays. After all, it is our house, isn't it.  Why do we sit back and let someone like this destroy our nation? 
Anyhow, thanks Susan for the good work you do here.  I just know that Mr. Johnson is very pleased with your writing for his site.  Actually, all the commentors here. for the most part, are great.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Aeon
EMAIL: chamona@comcast.net
IP: 24.6.206.216
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 03:29:34 PM
RED lights are blinking everywhere... WHO will listen - WHO will stop the madness of King George and his coup?

I hope it's sooner than later.  My nephew has been called back with the Navy to Iran.  He joined to go to college.  I hope he makes it.

WHO CARES about one kid -- as long as they make their blood money?

NO ONE in WASHINGTON D.C. or WAR PROFITEERS - certainly do not!

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. 

It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official..."

~Theodore Roosevelt~

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Retired
EMAIL: i2739@aol.com
IP: 71.102.137.216
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 05:20:27 PM
It seems like Richard Armitage ought to rate at least on honorable mention on "the list".
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 06:14:54 PM
Cursor pointed to this opinion by Paul Craig Roberts:


<a href="http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/011607Roberts.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/011607Roberts.shtml</a>

calls for immediate impeachment
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 06:16:58 PM
Olbermann was great as usual and WHY hasn't Stimson been fired yet? One of the law firms Stimson named as defending Guantanamo detainees is also representing Scooter Libby. Bet Stimson believes we should deny Libby a fair trial too.

The wingnuts just came out with this new book, The Enemy at Home, by Dinesh D'Souza, in which D'Souza blames liberals for 9/11. By way of making his argument, D'Souza makes common ground with traditional Muslims and says: "For conservatives to declare Islam as the problem and to fight the 1 billion people of the Muslim world abroad, in addition to the left at home? This is foolishness."

Apparently D'Souza doesn't think it would be foolish to make war on his fellow Americans and Europeans, basically aligning himself with bin Laden.

<a href="http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/1/15/194522.shtml?s=lh" rel="nofollow">http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/1/15/194522.shtml?s=lh</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Philip Combs
EMAIL: phil@universeconstruction.biz
IP: 24.7.83.163
URL: http://takeaction.wordpress.com/
DATE: 01/16/2007 06:25:18 PM
23 of The MadMan in the WhiteHouse's 'administration' connected to The Plame Affair.

No conspiracy here, nope, nothing to see here please move along.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 07:10:59 PM
Why is Bush firing US prosecutors, many of whom are involved in cases against corrupt officials such as Duke Cunningham? They're not being fired for incompetence. And they're being replaced with Bushies, without Congressional approval.

<a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011958.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011958.php</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/16/2007 07:21:09 PM
Leslie, I really like your pithy, amusing rundown of the endless contradictions in all things related to Bush's non-policy policies re Iraq.  

Yes, Retired.  The list is out of date.  I just wish all of the 23 on the list would have to testify.  

And it's a shame the trial isn't televised.  (Can't one of the Firedoglake-inistas sneak in a video phone?!)

John Amato at Crooks & Liars has the video of Keith's segment last night on Charles Stimson:
<a href="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/16/turley-reacts-to-pentagon-attack-on-due-process/" rel="nofollow">http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/16/turley-reacts-to-pentagon-attack-on-due-process/</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 07:34:29 PM
Thanks Susan, you and Larry were the inspiration. However, I wasn't thinking about Iraq so much as Iran and helping to frame pending questions. Because Bush has created disaster after disaster in the Middle East and now he wants to create another one. HELP!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/16/2007 07:35:23 PM
leslie, isn't that incredible?!

Digby has much more on the firings of U.S. Attys:
<a href="http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007_01_01_digbysblog_archive.html#116897925476606344" rel="nofollow">http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007_01_01_digbysblog_archive.html#116897925476606344</a>

And Diane Feinstein made a speech on the Senate floor today about the firings:
<a href="http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002349.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002349.php</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/16/2007 07:38:11 PM
I'm still bristling about Time mag's Richard Wolfe, who Keith Olbermann has on frequently*.  I heard him say, on a second show, that the Iran fears are silly and the product of those bloggers.

*My daughter, who'd already told me a couple weeks back that she isn't keen on Wolfe -- like what, really, does he ever say? -- thinks that Keith has him on because he gives Keith's show a veneer of mainstream-iness.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/16/2007 08:36:42 PM
I'm sooooo confused. -- Leslie

At this point, I'm tempted to suggest that perhaps it'd be simplest to just ask the public what they think Bush oughta do, and conclude that Bush is therefore pursuing precisely the opposite.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/16/2007 09:05:24 PM
P.S. Jane Hamsher, who founded FireDogLake, has to sit out the Libby trial because her breast cancer has come back:
<a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/16/three-time-loser-winner/" rel="nofollow">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/16/three-time-loser-winner/</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 09:32:45 AM
Here is one of those things about the US that absolutely drives me nuts -- <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/." rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/.</a>

It is a Newsweek article from a year ago (the dateline actually says Jan, 2005, but the copyright is 2006, and I think it was from last January). It explained back then that the Pentagon was pursuing the "Salvador Option", basically training Kurdish and Shiite death squads to target the Sunni. The death squads apparently worked so well in El Salvador that we decided they would end the Sunni insurgency.

So, it looks like we may have deliberately started the Iraqi civil war, and the harvest of corpses with electric drill holes in their heads may just be the fruit of the seeds sown by Elliot Abrams, Negroponte, and the other administration Central American officials who cut their teeth in Central America.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR:  TE
EMAIL: te@yahoo.com
IP: 64.56.232.174
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 11:15:29 AM
The list is not complete.  Where is Bond, the FBI agent?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/17/2007 11:29:10 AM
WELL, WELL, WELL, Mr. STIMSON ... 

 Washington Post:
An Apology to Detainees' Attorneys  —  During a radio interview last week, I brought up the topic of pro bono work and habeas corpus representation of detainees in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.  Regrettably, my comments left the impression that I question the integrity of those engaged in the zealous defense of detainees in Guantanamo. ...

ALL
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011601383.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011601383.html</a>

(Haven't read this yet, just the intro.)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 12:36:45 PM
Stimson, latest Bush jerk: "left the impression..."

Huh, no, you jackass, you actually said you were against giving people fair trials. You're against one of the cornerstones of our Constitution. That's what you said. That's not spin.

Yeah, saw Jane Hamsher's post about her cancer returning and her upcoming operation. Hope she's OK. Maybe if we all hope together it will have a positive effect?

Richard Wolfe on Olbermann...what he said about Iran. Right, the naval carriers, mine sweepers, arrests of Iranian officials...that's all leftie blogger fantasy. Where do these people come from? Why do they get air-time? It's amazing to me that the people who were right about the pre-Iraq war intelligence, such as Scott Ritter, have been marginalized. While the idiots who helped spin the White House spin for war are still punditing and even getting promoted. And these so-called experts tell us we're reality-challenged?!

The US attorney firings Bushie message: If you do your job and go after corrupt officials who happen to be in the GOP, we will fire you. Then we'll replace you with a GOP flack who will go after the Democrats for 2008.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 01:43:16 PM
By way of reminder, here's what Stimson said (before reading off the names of several of these enemy-of-the-state law firms):

"I think, quite honestly, when corporate C.E.O.’s see that those firms are representing the very terrorists who hit their bottom line back in 2001, those C.E.O.’s are going to make those law firms choose between representing terrorists or representing reputable firms..."

You didn't leave the wrong impression, Charlie, you're just too fucking stupid to realize that you were speaking to the public, and not just the inhabitants of a little room in a radio station who shared your fascist views.

To top it off, the Pentagon offical who said that Stimson's comments "do not represent the views of the Defense Department or the thinking of its leadership," actually refused, I kid you not, to allow his name to be used.

Excuse me? What, this is classified?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/17/2007 02:51:56 PM
His NAME is classified because he's speaking out against what the Bush administration really thinks of the law firms helping detainees, which Mr. Stimson simply articulated.  Isn't it great to have him in charge of the detainees?

A lot of apologies are self-serving, like this one.  It's like the man who beats his wife or girlfriend and apologizes, promising NEVER NEVER AGAIN.  Yeah, right.  There's a big difference between an apology and true remorse.  Which Mr. Stimson has not.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 04:35:32 PM
Findlaw.com has a good article up explaining why Stimson's remarks weren't a rogue comment, but actually the first steps in an administration effort to create a blacklist.

<a href="http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20070116_waller.html" rel="nofollow">http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20070116_waller.html</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.209.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 07:10:07 PM
I'd appreciate it if you'all would take a look at Global Research.ca &  click on U.S. war agenda    & finally click on Plans for redrawing the middle east: The project for a new middle east by Madhi Darius nazemroaya. Check out the map. Is this valid projection?
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.209.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 07:13:36 PM
Whoops, meant to say click On the map, not out. Sorry, don't know how to post the site.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Nazem
EMAIL: Nazem@yahoo.com
IP: 64.56.232.174
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 07:16:06 PM
During the Plame Libby trial Gonzalez said he won't renew the NSA charter, ending it's existence.  Man'; when Plame complains to that woman on the intelligence committee about domestic political groups getting tapped..... 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 07:42:06 PM
Bush is getting in front of Libby with the spy judge appointments to save face for supposed wiretap reviews.

They are basically taking their war on Truth in DC to the homes of America be caveat appointment.

A lot of prosecutors here are livid, on both sides of the political spectrum.

We may well see a 'black friday' occur, since damage control pushes back bad news release until the end of a week...

The only thing to stop this judicial night of long knives is public demand and Congressional response.

Barring, of course, a new terra event or war with a country such as Iran or Venezuela...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/17/2007 08:21:57 PM
There's an interesting historical resonance here with a famous incident involving one of the darker angels of our country's nature.

One of the law firms currently doing pro bono work for the Guantanamo detainees is Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr, and the last two names, Hale and Dorr, comprised a law firm back in the fifties which defended the Army against charges leveled by a certain hotheaded Republican Senator who made his bones claiming the Army was chockfulla Reds.

The Senator, having learned that a young Hale Dorr associate named Frederick Fisher had once belonged to the leftist National Lawyer's Guild, smeared the absent Fisher, in hearings televised live, as "a member of an organization which is named, oh, years and years ago, as the legal bulwark of the Communist Party." 

Which was, well, horseshit.

And that's when Hale Dorr lead counsel-- the visibly shaken Joe Welch-- let Senator Joe McCarthy have it:

"Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty, or your recklessness...

"Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?  Have you left no sense of decency?"


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 12:34:21 PM
Has Bush no sense of decency? He's firing competent US attorneys, some he appointed himself such as Lam, for political reasons. He's trying to create a blacklist of law firms doing pro bono work for accused terrorists, one law firm represents Libby.

And now he's claiming to be abiding by FISA, by waving a vaguely written letter from Gonzales. The Bushie way of admitting that there was absolutely no reason to disobey FISA in the first place, assuming he is now obeying FISA and it's not clear he is. And the news presents this as....wow, let's all be grateful that the president is following the law. When really Bush wants to avoid Congressional investigations. 
-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: "Exposed"
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/17/2007 08:35:31 PM
-----
BODY:
From "<a href="http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2007/01/exposed.html">Exposed</a>" at Andrew Sullivan's <em>Time </em>blog where, by the way, he's holding a "blogalogue" ("<a href="http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2007/01/debating_sam_i_.html">Debating Sam I Am</a>") with Sam Harris, author of <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/End-Faith-Religion-Terror-Future/dp/0393327655/sr=8-2/qid=1169084698/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-7103918-6158217?ie=UTF8&s=books">The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason</a></em>:

<blockquote>The bigotry and hatred being perpetrated by some Saudi-funded radical Muslims in Britain is slowly being exposed by the British media. Here's a first installment of a documentary from UK's Channel 4. It's enlightening and terrifying. These people are religious fascists; and they form a clear and present danger to our freedoms. You can watch the other installments <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo&eurl=">here</a>.

[VIDEO BELOW THE FOLD.]</blockquote>
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<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/peFQWuk4nuo" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><embed width="425" height="350" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/peFQWuk4nuo" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed></object>

It's horrifying to hear the lecturer exhort his followers to "crucify" a non-believer, and leave him hanging, bleeding for three days.

Is this peculiar to the U.K. and Europe? <em><strong>Are the Saudis fomenting this kind of destestable crap in the U.S.?</strong></em>  At any rate, this is a REAL problem, as opposed to those invented by the Bush administration to launch its preemptive war against Iraq.  (See "<a href="http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007_01_01_digbysblog_archive.html#116906440411595718">Preventive Quagmire</a>," by Digby, a terrific blogger.)  While it can't be solved, or cured, through war or repression -- which sentient political observers know does nothing but foment radicalism -- it does need to be somehow countered.  And we can't be so cautious in our criticisms that we can't see the horror of the remarks in Channel 4's investigative piece.  But HOW do we counter this kind of poison?

I always say, "To each his own."  My neighbor can worship a doorknob, the god of war Ares, or the Christian God, but he needs to leave me be.  However, the hate and suggestions of violence in this video are disturbing.
-----
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KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 09:39:24 AM
Wahhabism is a puritican fundamentalist sect within Sunni Islam. They consider music and any form of image of people (photographs, statues, etc) to be sinful. It is the dominant form of Islam in western Pakistan, southern Afghanistan, and western Iraq. And it is the state religion of Saudi Arabia.

At least in current times is it extremist and violent. Young men are indoctrinated in religious schools and taught to hate the West, as well as Islamic heretics, particularly the Shia.

The Taliban are Wahhabist. Osama bin Laden is Wahhabist. The Saudi Royal family is Wahhabist.

The Saudi Royal Family has essentially struck a bargain with the religious extremists in Saudi Arabia. The extremists tolerate the sinful (in their eyes) Royal Family, because the royals subsidize the religous schools, tolerate the religious extremism, and even help export the extremism to the rest of the world.

We, of course, pay for this through oil revenues. We also support this through official pro-Saudi government policy. We have twice(!) elected presidents who can fairly be described as Saudi bagmen. One of them (our current president) spent much of his impressionable youth under Saudi influence. Even now, it is not clear that advancing Saudi anti-Iranian sentiments isn't a major goal in our policy vis-a-vis Iraq and Iran.

I would be surprised if Wahhibist extremism isn't being preached in the US. I don't know exactly what to do about it, other than to say that the best response to extremist rhetoric is usually reason and moderation. I do believe that people under stress turn to fundamentalism and extremism. There is little that is as stressful as war, and even if peace doesn't put out the fire, it at least robs it of its fuel.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Salmo
EMAIL: hemlock5200@yahoo.com
IP: 66.243.201.177
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 10:52:10 AM
The cure for misuse of free speech is more speech.  It seems reasonable to assume for purposes of discussion that this sort of call to terrorism is being made here too.  If true, the way to counter it is to expose it, identify those who use it, and discuss why it is profoundly immoral.  The use of the legal system to supress such speech us probably counterproductive.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 192.245.246.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 12:21:56 PM
Yep, thats aboue sums it up. Fortunately the Mullahs and Iman's preach it, but the followers are few in regards to wanting to execute it. I suspect a lot it they take as hot air to be forgotten.
However, there are those few who silenty nod their heads and take the sermon as marching orders.
The problem is...how many are dismissing the Iman as a fruit cake, and how many are willing to obey him?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: HopeSpringsATurtle
EMAIL: hopespringsaturtle@gmail.com
IP: 70.125.151.79
URL: http://deepconfusion.com/
DATE: 01/18/2007 01:10:54 PM
What is shocking to me about this video is not the 'hate speech' but how similar the  hard-core Christian fundamentalists are to the extremist Wahabi. What is different about the American fundamentalists bombing abortion clinics and preaching hate about everyone that isn't them? The difference I see between the groups is that American fundamentalists have had the rights and privileges of being in the dominant culture while Muslim extremists have been not only marginalized but abused world-wide by western culture/power structure.

I am not a Islam apologist. I am a proud American, former military, who is a person of faith. But I cannot call just one side of this culture war wrong. Until we as Americans and Europeans, admit the main reason Muslims become extremists is they reject  being abused and disempowered. 

I do not support nor condone any violence perpetrated against any group and strongly condemn the tactics of terrorists of any stripe.

Until we change our foreign  
policies to fair practices not merely toward Arab countries but poor countries, we will continue to be the victims of victims in an unending cycle of violence.

I can only speak what I think and pray for divine intervention. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: HopeSpringsATurtle
EMAIL: hopespringsaturtle@gmail.com
IP: 70.125.151.79
URL: http://deepconfusion.com/
DATE: 01/18/2007 01:13:03 PM
"The Taliban are Wahhabist. Osama bin Laden is Wahhabist. The Saudi Royal family is Wahhabist.

The Saudi Royal Family has essentially struck a bargain with the religious extremists in Saudi Arabia. The extremists tolerate the sinful (in their eyes) Royal Family, because the royals subsidize the religous schools, tolerate the religious extremism, and even help export the extremism to the rest of the world.

We, of course, pay for this through oil revenues. We also support this through official pro-Saudi government policy. We have twice(!) elected presidents who can fairly be described as Saudi bagmen. One of them (our current president) spent much of his impressionable youth under Saudi influence. Even now, it is not clear that advancing Saudi anti-Iranian sentiments isn't a major goal in our policy vis-a-vis Iraq and Iran."

THIS IS UNDENIABLY TRUE.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 02:22:55 PM
saudi arabia has far far more to do with international terrorism than Iran or Iraq EVER have.  I am for US divestiture (pulling out)from the middle east as I bring up in some way or another in most of my posts, but i have always felt that that was one of two ways to fight this war.  the other is pro actively seeking out and exposing these mosques.  it is their rhetoric that jihadists chant.  that our foreign policy is a catalyst for this I understand, but it's at least half of the equation to stop funding building and ignoring these places.

   I have heard horror stories from shia muslims about their times at these mosques, not to mention getting hassled at MECCA.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 03:00:25 PM
Well if Bush [we, through past administrations too] spent less on bombs and more on helping Pakistan, say, build schools then we wouldn't have to worry as much about religious fanatics.

Yeah, I've read clips about how the Saudis have been exporting Wahhabism to the US for years. In fact, it may be the dominant form of Islam here. But we can hardly divest ourselves economically from Saudi Arabia or the Middle East. You know how many billions of dollars the Saudis alone have invested into our economy, and I'm not just talking about oil.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.219.97
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 03:37:47 PM
I couldn't get much of the tape to play, however, I think I got the drift. Christianne Amonanpour, the CNN reporter who now lives in Britian with her husband, James Reuben (formerly of US State Dept under Clinton/Albright) is doing a documentary on this subject, "The War Within" 8pm EST this coming Saturday & Sunday night. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.35.82
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 09:33:56 AM
The Saudis, Susan, are about to become very "unAmerican" so it is no surprise that UK current affair programs were chosen to beat up on the looney toons.
-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Clinton Steps Forward
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/17/2007 09:22:39 PM
-----
BODY:
<strong><a href="http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2007/01/clinton_steps_f.html">By Patrick Lang</a>, from his blog, <em>Sic Semper Tyrannis 2007</em>:</strong>

Senator Clinton held a press conference today on her resolves following the announcement of President's new and improved strategy on Iraq.

Bottom Line:

She intends to introduce legislation that would:

- Freeze the number of US troops in Iraq to 132,000 while providing full funding for US forces there.

- Set up "penalties" for the Iraqi government in the form of cuts in money to support their armed forces if the Iraqis do not perform to uphold their "end" of the president's new campaign plan.

- Require the president to secure Congressional approval before increasing the number of US troops in Iraq.
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
Senator Clinton understands that this legislation will not be enacted, but it is clear that it is her intention to "lay down a marker" on these issues, both for President Bush and herself.  She has also urged the Defense Department to increase the size of US forces in Afghanistan.  She was asked for this by commanders in Afghanistan.

At the same time, there are Senate resolutions "cooking" that:

- Would require the president to attain Congressional approval for troop increases in Iraq.

- Would require the president to get congressional approval before any armed action against Iran.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Pointless? No. No. No. Given the desperate situation in which President Bush finds himself, I find it likely that he will "double up" his "bets" in Iraq and/or Iran to retrieve his place in history.  Present surveys indicate that as things are now '43 will go down in history as one of the worst of all American presidents.  I do not believe that GWB could possible accept this and, in that context, he will "bet the ranch" to try retrieve the situation.

If he does that after ignoring such proposed resolutions, it is arguable that a case for impeachment could be made.  pl

Reference: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/opinion/17wed1.html?_r=1&oref=slogin">NYT</a>

-------------------------------------------------------------

<a href="http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2007/01/clinton_steps_f.html">BY PATRICK LANG</a>
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EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/17/2007 09:45:45 PM
The full text of the nonbinding resolution introduced today by Sens. Joe Biden (D-DE), Carl Levin (D-MI), and Chuck Hagel (R-NE).

The key line: "it is not in the national interest of the United States to deepen its military involvement in Iraq, particularly by escalating the United States presence in Iraq."

<a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011987.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/011987.php</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: CK
EMAIL: ckphalon@hotmail.com
IP: 72.81.118.148
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 08:08:06 AM
The key line should have been written:  "It is in the national interest of Israel that the United States deepen its military involvement in the Arab World and the Islamic World, particularly by escalating the Unites States preremptory military activities in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Somalia, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Chad and the Sahel."
As for Senator Clinton's suggestions, she, McCain and Lieberman are the continuing enablers of this travesty. A pox on her and the rest of her ilk.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sky-Ho
EMAIL: ad4271@hotmail.com
IP: 67.101.81.28
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 09:34:47 AM
*....he will "bet the ranch" to try retrieve the situation.*

Now is the time to be afraid.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/18/2007 10:56:16 AM
It is the last sentence of Pat's piece that most caught my eye.   When the true Middle East experts like Pat, who best I can ascertain isn't a Democrat, mention the "I" word, well ... 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 69.59.206.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 11:15:04 AM
This is really sickening.   senators that act like candidates and do nothing on both fronts until their poll watchers tell them what to say
    are none of our representatives human?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/18/2007 12:17:33 PM
Then there's this from the AP:

"Iraq resolution exposes GOP divisions"

"A Democratic resolution on Iraq has attracted the support of at least two Republicans and is exposing fissures within the GOP over the unpopular war. ..."

<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070118/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070118/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 12:49:04 PM
Republican John Dean has been mentioning the I word for long time. Just add Pat Lang's reasoning to the list of reasons to impeach. 

I'm really glad Congress is working on Iraq—a lot. But not sure I like Clinton's bill regarding troop level freezes? Or Obama's? Or Dodd's? I like Biden's non-binding resolution to condemn Bush's policy though.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Clinton is Worthless
EMAIL: anon@anon.net
IP: 216.220.193.132
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 02:18:37 PM
Her non-proposal is typical of her - attempt to rephrase the cynically cautious, ineffectual party line on Iraq, in such a way as to try to seem active on a topic while doing nothing.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: farzi
EMAIL: persianoliveoil@hotmail.com
IP: 151.151.73.167
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 02:22:38 PM
While she's off doing this stuff, who's doing her day job for her?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 02:45:32 PM
Well, the last two cooking resolutions are good. When will they be cooked and ready to go?

Clinton's request to draw down troops in Iraq and increase troops in Afghanistan were on the mark too.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/18/2007 05:25:03 PM
Is it good practice, in general, for Congress to step in and set troop size for the CIC and the Pentagon?

Of course, THIS CIC needs to have his shoelaces tied for him.  But, in general?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/18/2007 06:36:03 PM
Offshoot story:

"Obama floats Iraq plan after Clinton puts out proposal"   

"... No sooner did Clinton finish an afternoon news conference than Sen. Barack Obama, who triggered his White House run on Tuesday, sent out a statement saying he, too, will be introducing legislation furthering his concepts for getting troops home.

This is notable politically because it's the first time since Obama started running for president that he directly reacted to Clinton. He at first told reporters he might draft his own plan in a matter of days. It turned out to be a few hours, suggesting he has a rapid response operation either incubating or fully hatched.

It's interesting to see Obama elbowing his way into a developing story line of the day. ..."

<a href="http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/01/sweet_column_obama_floats_iraq.html#more" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/01/sweet_column_obama_floats_iraq.html#more</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Other Tom
EMAIL: TMM89@san.rr.com
IP: 24.161.190.159
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 10:10:12 PM
A delightful report from ABC News concerning the courage of the new congressional leadership:

"Janary 18. There may be a growing battle between Congress and the president over the Iraq War strategy, but new House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said she won't block funding for additional troops.

"Pelosi's position, revealed in an exclusive interview with ABC News' Diane Sawyer, came a day after a group of senators announced a bipartisan resolution condemning the Bush administration's plan to increase U.S. forces in Iraq by more than 20,000 troops." 


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Fantomas
EMAIL: frenchspeakingwriter@yahoo.com
IP: 86.72.164.96
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 09:44:16 PM
It's strange how two of the most talked about and media-present candidates are two of the least likely to win; McCain and Clinton.  

She's simply unelectable, and I'd wonder what her game was in even joining the race if that answer wasn't pretty clear; an ego the size of a planet.

Every day that she stays in the race is another hundred conservative voters that find themselves united once more in hatred of their archnemesis and motivated to vote.  
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.35.82
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 09:39:54 AM
whup-ti-doo, I new Hilary would come to the rescue.

She's....er...the new Lone Ranger....Tonto....er Reno....er which ever pseudo lesbian is in fashion these days.

It she makes those 'intentions' they certainly weren't hers. And I very much doubt she will make them. God help America and the World if she replaces Bush.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Ticia
EMAIL: ETBlog@aol.com
IP: 71.110.145.32
URL: http://americaabroad.tpmcafe.com/blog/ticia/2007/jan/23/impeachment_watch_blogroll_january_update
DATE: 01/30/2007 01:05:10 PM
I am new here, and new to blogging, so hi. In preparation for exigiencies which may arise from the "i word," I started Impeachment Watch at TPM Cafe.


Love your mind, Ticia
-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Wilkerson: U.S. Snubbed Iran's Offers
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/18/2007 11:48:43 AM
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BODY:
Lawrence Wilkerson, a top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell with whom he had a falling out over his criticisms of the Bush administration, told BBC <em>Newsnight</em> program that "Iran offered the US a package of concessions in 2003, but it was rejected. This plan, say experts, "corresponds pretty closely to what Washington is demanding from Tehran now." From BBC News's "<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6274147.stm">Washington 'snubbed Iran offer'</a>":

<blockquote>Tehran proposed ending support for Lebanese and Palestinian militant groups and helping to stabilise Iraq following the US-led invasion.

Offers, including making its nuclear programme more transparent, were conditional on the US ending hostility.

But Vice-President Dick Cheney's office rejected the plan, [Wilkerson] said.</blockquote>
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EXTENDED BODY:
<blockquote>One of the then Secretary of State Colin Powell's top aides told the BBC the state department was keen on the plan - but was over-ruled.

"We thought it was a very propitious moment to do that," Lawrence Wilkerson told Newsnight.

"But as soon as it got to the White House, and as soon as it got to the Vice-President's office, the old mantra of 'We don't talk to evil'... reasserted itself."</blockquote>

This is not the first time Wilkerson has spoken up on the 2003 proposal from Iran.  In March 2006, IPS News Agency <a href="http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32672">reported</a> that it received an e-mail from Wilkerson. IPS also interviewed Iran expert Flynt Leverett whose recent <em>NYT</em> op-ed on Iran was redacted by the CIA at the insistence of the White House:

<blockquote>[...]

"The secret cabal got what it wanted: no negotiations with Tehran," Wilkerson wrote in an e-mail to IPS. 

The Iranian negotiating offer, transmitted to the State Department in early May 2003 by the Swiss ambassador in Tehran, acknowledged that Iran would have to address U.S. concerns about its nuclear programme, although it made no specific concession in advance of the talks, according to Flynt Leverett, then the National Security Council's senior director for Middle East Affairs. 

It also raised the possibility of cutting off Iran's support for Hamas and Islamic Jihad and converting Hezbollah into a purely socio-political organisation, according to Leverett. That was an explicit response to Powell's demand in late March that Iran "end its support for terrorism". 

In return, Leverett recalls, the Iranians wanted the United States to address security questions, the lifting of economic sanctions and normalisation of relations, including support for Iran's integration into the global economic order. 

Leverett also recalls that it was drafted with the blessing of all the major political players in the Iranian regime, including the "Supreme Leader", Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. 

Realists, led by Powell and his Deputy Richard Armitage, were inclined to respond positively to the Iranian offer. Nevertheless, within a few days of its receipt, the State Department had rebuked the Swiss ambassador for having passed on the offer. 

Exactly how the decision was made is not known. "As with many of these issues of national security decision-making, there are no fingerprints," Wilkerson told IPS. "But I would guess Dick Cheney with the blessing of George W. Bush." 

As Wilkerson observes, however, the mysterious death of what became known among Iran specialists as Iran's "grand bargain" initiative was a result of the administration's inability to agree on a policy toward Tehran. 

A draft National Security Policy Directive (NSPD) on Iran calling for diplomatic engagement had been in the process of interagency coordination for more than a year, according to a source who asks to remain unidentified. 

But it was impossible to get formal agreement on the NSPD, the source recalls, because officials in Cheney's office and in Undersecretary of Defence for Policy Douglas Feith's Office of Special Plans wanted a policy of regime change and kept trying to amend it. 

Opponents of the neoconservative policy line blame Condoleezza Rice, then the National Security Adviser, for the failure of the administration to override the extremists in the administration. The statutory policymaker process on Iran, Wilkerson told IPS in e-mail, was "managed by a national security adviser incapable of standing up to the cabal..." 

In the absence of an Iran policy, the two contending camps struggled in 2003 over a proposal by realists in the administration to reopen the Geneva channel with Iran that had been used successfully on Afghanistan in 2001-2002. They believed Iran could be helpful in stabilising post-conflict Iraq, because the Iraqi Shiite militants who they expected to return from Iran after Hussein's overthrow owed some degree of allegiance to Iran. 

The neoconservatives tried to block those meetings on tactical policy grounds, according to Leverett. "They were saying we didn't want to engage with Iran because we didn't want to owe them," he recalls.

Nevertheless, U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad was authorised to begin meeting secretly in Geneva with Iranian officials to discuss Iraq. The neoconservatives then tried to sandbag the talks by introducing a demand for full information on any high-ranking al Qaeda cadres who might be detained by the Iranians. 

Iran regarded that information as a bargaining chip. 

[...]

On May 3, as the Iranian "grand bargain" proposal was on its way to Washington, Tehran's representative in Geneva, Javad Zarif, offered a compromise on the issue, according to Leverett: if the United States gave Iran the names of the cadres of the Mujahideen e Kalq (MEK) who were being held by U.S. forces in Iraq, Iran would give the United States the names of the al Qaeda operatives they had detained. 

[...]

[There's <a href="http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32672">much more</a> in this fascinating detailed article from IPS.]

</blockquote>


You're all familiar with Wilkerson's many statements, including his statement that his participation in Powell's U.N. address before the Iraq War was his "lowest point." Here's some <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Wilkerson">more background on Wilkerson's outspoken criticisms</a> of the Bush administration:

<blockquote>In an interview that aired on PBS in Spring 2006 Wilkerson claimed that the speech Powell made before the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, laying out a case for war with Iraq, included falsehoods of which Powell had never been made aware. He said, "My participation in that presentation at the UN constitutes the lowest point in my professional life. I participated in a hoax on the American people, the international community and the United Nations Security Council."

He stated in the interview that he was "intimately involved in the preparation of Secretary Powell for his five February 2003 presentation at the UN Security Council" and that neither CIA Director George Tenent nor the CIA analysts involved in furnishing Powell with the information on mobile biological laboratories that he would use in his speech gave any indication that there were disputes about the reliability of the informants who had supplied this information.

Wilkerson still sees this lapse as the result of a profound intelligence failure, saying, "I have to believe that. Otherwise I have to believe some rather nefarious things about some fairly highly placed people in the intelligence community and perhaps elsewhere."

Wilkerson also agreed with the interviewer that Vice President Cheney's frequent trips to the CIA would inevitably have brought "undue influence" on the agency. When asked if Cheney was "the kind of guy who could lean on somebody" he responded, "Absolutely. And be just as quiet and taciturn about it as-- he-- as he leaned on 'em. As he leaned on the Congress recently-- in the-- torture issue."

Wilkerson stood strongly by his earlier description of Cheney and Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld as having formed a cabal to hijack the decision-making process, emphasizing both their determination to ignore the Geneva Conventions and the "inept and incompetent" planning for post-invasion Iraq. And he concluded, "I'm worried and I would rather have the discussion and debate in the process we've designed than I would a diktat from a dumb strongman. . . . I'd prefer to see the squabble of democracy to the efficiency of dictators."</blockquote>

Wilkerson <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Wilkerson">backed</a> Jim Webb's candidacy for the U.S. Senate:

<blockquote>On September 26, 2006 Wilkerson <a href="http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149190830866">endorsed and expressed full support</a> in a conference call to the media, with former NATO Supreme Allied Commander U.S. Army General Wesley Clark, and former Central Command Commander U.S. Marine General Anthony Zinni for fellow veteran and U.S. Senate Democratic Candidate, Jim Webb.</blockquote>
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EXCERPT:

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KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Eclaire
EMAIL: chanleyca@aol.com
IP: 207.200.116.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 12:24:36 PM
So, the Bushites early on refused an offer of help from Iran.  Am I appalled?  Yes.  Am I surprised?  No.

All along I have been feeling that the Bushites have been forcing Iran into a war.  The US, a belligerent and vastly more powerful nation, has armed troops sitting on both Iran's borders.  We are moving aircraft carriers onto their coastline.  We refuse to talk with them.  We accuse them of aiding their neighbor whom we have invaded (well, duh, what neighbor wouldn't do the same).

Do the mind game.  How would we in the US feel if China, under some pretext (freeing the First Nation peoples from oppression??), occupied Canada?  Then, invaded Mexico (maybe they could damp down the drug trade and create jobs).  We would be angry, anxious, fearful ... and probably sneaking over the borders to help blow up the invaders.

Maybe my world view is too simplistic, but I really believe most US peoples vastly underestimate the negative reactions of the Muslim/Arab/Persian world to having US soldiers occupying their territory.

And, now, to find out that our "leaders" had refused to sit down and engage in talks with Iran that had an excellent possibility of defusing or nipping in the bud the destruction of an entire civil society, just makes my so angry.  What a horrible, horrible waste of minds and bodies and blood and creative energy.  They have actively helped in crushing and entire generation of Iraqis.  

I wish at times such as this that I believed in life after death, because then I could console myself with the thought that these "leaders" would suffer for eternity in a circle of hell reserved for betrayers of entire nations.  
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/18/2007 12:53:06 PM
C-posted at DKos:
<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/18/115250/559" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/18/115250/559</a>

This hits a nerve.  People are so very worried about Bush going after Iran, desperate as he is -- which Pat Lang pointed out so very well in the post immediately below.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BrendaStewart
EMAIL: stormyweather1@hotmail.com
IP: 65.7.35.179
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 01:09:47 PM
Great response, Eclaire!  This is such a folly of all follies.  I do believe that in the end of this, what ever one wants to call it, they will get that which is coming their way.  I at least hope so! Hell may just refuse to let them in for their terrible deeds...just kidding of course.

I for one do believe we must endever in some type of drawing back of this WH and do it fast so we do not further the war in the ME.  This is and as been taken to the extreme. Hell, we should not have done this terrible thing in the first place!  I sure hope that Senator Webb can give them all kinds of hell in the upcoming congress...I am expecting him to do so.

I was watching cspan today when I realized that specter is trying to back out of his ghastly deed of the AG's being fired.  What a creep he is.

Senator Leahy is going for blood and I sure hope he stands his grounds.  I really think the WH really believes thay can stall this congress and get by with murder still...

What do you all think...will they or wont't they?  

I want cheneys and bushs head on a platter yesterday....as well as many more of them waiting in line for said platter.  rice is such a weakling.  I really wonder who really wipes her anal area.  I for one do not believe for a minute that she is capable of doing it herself!

I am somewhat rendered to believe that Webb will do much and if he does, I will hold him in deepest regard.  I trust but do want SO to verify his method of madness.

I am sure that next Tuesday we will see if he has any bite.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 204.117.117.26
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 01:10:22 PM
Poor Lawrence,  a fellow with principles, and we have to find out about the lies years later.

does this give anyone cause to worry?
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: farzi
EMAIL: persianoliveoil@hotmail.com
IP: 151.151.21.102
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 01:30:07 PM
Worry is an understatement, oldtree.
What this report tells me is that Cheney and his oil henchmen have their sights set on Iran and there is no stopping them.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 198.16.9.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 01:35:40 PM
It just gets worse and worse.
Dear G-d, I need a drink.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 02:32:23 PM
Brenda writes: "I really think the WH really believes thay can stall this congress and get by with murder still...What do you all think...will they or wont't they? "

Phew, enough is enough.

I've listened patiently to a lot of perfectly good reasons to not impeach: it'd tear the country apart when we most need unity, it's inadvisable politically for dems, it's not likely to succeed, it won't fix the current situation, and on and on and on, and goddammit, none of these reasons matter.

Some of you already know I'm a fan of the hard-boiled detective genre, so you won't be surprised to find me turning to Dash Hammett for a little inspiration. From Sam Spade's final soliliquy in The Maltese Falcon:

"When a man's partner is killed he's supposed to do something about it. It doesn't matter what you thought of him. He was your partner and you're supposed to do something about it. Then it happens we were in the detective business. Well, when one of your organization gets killed it's bad business to let the killer get away with it. It's bad all around-- bad for that one organization, bad for every detective everywhere."

See where I'm going with this?

When the President defrauds the congress and dumps on the constitution, the congress is supposed to something about it. It doesn't matter whether he means well or whether it's politically expedient or not. He's abused the office and you're supposed to do something about it. As it happens we are in the democracy business. Well, when the very foundation of that democracy is thrown up against a fence and made to stand still for a few quick thrusts, it's bad business to let the fucker get away with it. Not just bad for our democracy, but for all democracies everywhere.

Impeachment is the mechanism given us by the framers of this democracy to "do something about it," and I sure as hell don't rule out legal prosecution afterward.

We give our leaders a lot of slack in how they conduct the affairs of this country, but it is absolutely imperative that we say to democracies elsewhere-- not to mention future American adminstrations, that this is something that we do not tolerate here.

Or as Dash might put it:

We won't play the sap for you. You fucked the country, and you're going over for it.

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 02:48:27 PM
Get it, Mug? See, Mug? [slap] [slap]

sorry, [laughing] still in full Hammett mode.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 03:07:16 PM
Who decides what's evil? And even if Iran is evil, what would it hurt to talk anyway? The stupidity and arrogance of the Bush administration is so mind-numbingly unbelievable.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 05:44:06 PM
it's pretty obvious that the entire war on terror is just a front for getting the middle easts oil isn't it?  it seems like that's where we end up if we "win".  If we were honest we would conquer them and take their oil and leave them alone otherwise
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Marc
EMAIL: 
IP: 216.209.121.19
URL: http://profile.typekey.com/Marc_L/
DATE: 01/18/2007 06:13:50 PM
Any confirmation about this one ?
<a href="http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Israeli_Nuclear_Strike_On_Iran.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/Israeli_Nuclear_Strike_On_Iran.htm</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Tupharsin
EMAIL: dappertuttosloof84@hotmail.com
IP: 80.168.173.7
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 06:34:41 PM
Slightly off topic, but hey, I'm on the other side of the Atlantic!

Breaking news (news because the very airing of the thing is another indication that the "tectonic plates" are shifting):

Wonderful drama on Brit television tonight called The Trial of Tony Blair. It's about how "the [post Blair/post Bush] world has changed". And how in those changed circumstances Blair gets Pinochet'd. Or to put it more politely, dropped in the shit. I.E., his upcoming date with a War Crimes Tribunal in the Hague. A consummation devoutly to be desired.

Best line in the thing is new Prime Minister Gordon Brown's, "This is a man who thinks he's on a mission to save the world when all he does is start wars."
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Retired
EMAIL: i2739@aol.com
IP: 71.102.137.216
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 07:11:12 PM
All of you are entirely too alarmist.  There will be snow in friggin' Malibu before any presidential administration achieves the type of disfunction in American foreign policy that you envision. 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Retired
EMAIL: i2739@aol.com
IP: 71.102.137.216
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 07:12:03 PM
OK, Vosburg.  Try and top that one.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.221.13
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 08:11:53 PM
Marc, I read your referenced site & noticed they use info from a site I recently requested you'all read: Global research.ca (click: U.S. War Agenda) (clickThe Project for a New Middle East by Madhi Darius Nazemroaya)The founder of the site, recently deceased, spent alot of his life being very critical of Israel...the whole thing may just be Neo-lib B.S. & yes, there is Neo-lib B.S. in direct proportion to  Neo-con B.S. No shortage of agenda driven journalism out there. Everytime I think I know what's really going on, the rug gets pulled out from under. The New World Order de'jour.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 08:42:06 PM
Retired writes: "All of you are entirely too alarmist. There will be snow in friggin' Malibu before any presidential administration achieves the type of dysfunction in American foreign policy that you envision."

[laughing] For those not following recent California weather, yes, it's true; Malibu received a light dusting of snow last night in what is, for California, a mighty rare cold snap.

On the other hand, we've had snow here on the Paramount Studios backlot several times in the past couple months (most recently for a CSI shoot). I really shoulda got some pics (with the Hollyowood sign hovering in the background).

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.153.221.13
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 09:40:48 PM
I do have a couple of comments about this Wilkerson post: he was Colin Powell's aide, isn't it a little late in the game to be sending out an aide? Why has Powell been so off the radar?  I heard a piece on NPR awhile back about al Qiada operatives living happily ever after in a lake side resort outside of Tehran, supposedly they escaped from Tora Bora. According to the NPR story, they were being well treated, like guests, just not allowed to free roam.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: dave
EMAIL: dpitch@att.net
IP: 216.9.250.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 09:42:47 PM
You all are a bunch of weasels. You are so blinded by your hate for our President that you are unable to be opened minded to the possibilty that when Iran says that Israel should be destroyed that petgaps they mean it. Or are we supposed to thbunk that maybe they are just kidding. Your hate blinds you to being open to the possibility that perhaps Iran does want to dominate the region, 60% oh our energy source which would of course have a huge negative effect on our economy and the ability of a working family to make a living. No, its easier to hate our President than to take Iran at its word. What naïve fools you are. What pathetic a d weak souls you are. Youe hate blinds your desire to be known realists. Sad to think that if there were enough people that were as weak and pathetic as you that we would not even be able to express the views we are all putting forth here. Wonder how many people in you beloved Iran can feet express themselves on a blog óe anywhere else for that matter. Better watch out for Bush-cheney-Rice. Thry can only be allowing this blog to exist because it eventually leads to oil and money in their pocket. Please go live in Iran and write your HONEST thoughts from there. Perhaps then you would have more Credibility. 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/18/2007 10:25:53 PM
Hey Dave - your quite the grand thinker.  Apparently not a doer, since I would assume you are not posting this comment from Iraq or Afghanistan.  Go worship little boots with your fellow pee stained chickenhawks somewhere else, asshole.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: good
EMAIL: good@hotmail.com
IP: 64.40.46.2
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 01:31:45 AM
SO WHAT? 

YES, WE Do nOt TALK to EVIL

ATTACK IRAN ASAP!

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.154.72.71
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 01:33:00 AM
 dave, apparantly you haven't read many of my posts. I assure you I take the threats of radical Islamists very seriously. I sure as hell don't want to be conquered by them. However  I don't feel as Mart does that one has to be on active duty in Iraq/Afghanistan to have patriotic concerns.  Have you noticed there are   many veterans who post on this site? I think there are some people  who post here who are  opposed to all war; reasonable people are opposed to unnecessary war ( conflicts that could be resolved diplomaticly),and there is much dialoque here about that, some who appear to be lobbying on behalf of their country of origin..lots of reasons..some looking to influence strategies/tactics, some who are very troubled  about the way in which these wars are being waged..some looking for the bigger picture. As far as posters on this site "having to watch out for Bush-Cheney-Rice..." & them only "allowing" free speech "because it leads to oil & money in their pocket", you'd have to elaborate on that theory for me to understand, however it was one hell of an image! Maybe if you calmed down a bit, spent a little more time reading the posts, SOME, not all, of your impressions might change. Honorable & patrotic people can disagree.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 01:57:47 AM
guess who, please do not fall into the trap of trying to reason with fucking idiots.  I do not believe one has to be active duty to be patriotic; this fool, like his neocon masters, portrays Iran as the gravest threat in world history.  If they actually believed that, they would volunteer to fight this great evil, right?  So, either they don't actually believe that & are full of shit, or they believe that & are pee stained chickenhawks.  What Davey boy & his ilk are not is "honorable & patriotic".  You want to have a dialogue with fuckers who call you "weasel", "pathetic", and "weak"?  After 6 years of the boy king, after all we've seen, you think that something you or I write, or a post by Larry or Susan or Pat Lang is going to sway him?  We're down to the hardcore, mouth-breathing 30%, and a rational opposing argument simply hardens their insane beliefs.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Retired
EMAIL: i2739@aol.com
IP: 66.82.9.83
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 07:48:06 AM
dave, thanks to you:

(singing) "I've looked at hate from both sides now,
Repub and Dem, and still somehow,
It's hate's delusion I recall,
I really don't know hate at all."

(Will he get it?  The betting window is open.)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 11:22:04 AM
RE Retired "There will be snow in friggin' Malibu before any presidential administration achieves the type of disfunction in American foreign policy that you envision."

There actually WAS some snow in Malibu this week, along with some areas of Santa Monica, the West Side and west areas of the San Fernando Valley.  Snow fall level down to 1000 feet in the Santa Monica Mountains.

We have a White House whose policy is driven by self righteous neocon idealogues, whose publicly stated goal is American superiority in the world.  For them its not an option, its standard equipment.  Peaceful solutions for the benefit of all concerned are not on any table in any room in the White House.  And all of it ratified by the president they installed, who will do anything they say to further the legend in his own mind, that he is un-wrong.

Its interesting that the rejected offer came under Khatami's administration.  Its no surprise that enough Iranian's then thought he was too soft on the U.S., and so elected the more agressive Ahmadinejad as his successor, instead of another more moderate Khatami type.  They wanted someone less likely to be pushed around.

Now that the U.S. is demanding from Iran essentially what Iran had previously offered, then from the Iranian point of view, it probably looks to them like Ahmadinejad was not such a bad idea after all.

Too bad for us, isn't it?

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/19/2007 12:03:29 PM
Tupharsin, that drama ("The Trial of Tony Blair") was discussed on NPR yesterday.  I'd love to see it.  Perhaps BBCAmerica will air it (ha!).  BBCAmerica is an anemic version of what you get, and airs none of the great documentaries. And I doubt PBS will have the guts to bring it to the U.S.  (Hoping I'm wrong.)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chrios Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 01:05:48 PM
Dave writes: "You are so blinded by your hate for our President that you are unable to be opened minded to the possibilty that when Iran says that Israel should be destroyed that petgaps they mean it."

It is reasonable and sane, not to mention prudent, to despise a tyrant whose political views borders on fascism, in this country or any other. Nobody here is blinded by it, I assure you.

If it's blindness you're looking for, I'd suggest a conversation with any of those still insisting that there was clear justification for the invasion of Iraq.

And it's important to note than Iran, a country, did not say that Israel needs to be "wiped off the map." A single man said that, and his fortunes are falling in Iran as seen in the recent national elections, which saw candidates aligned with him going down to defeat.

I presume that, as in this country, Iranis look forward to electing a more moderate, less hardline conservative leader than the current President, when they next are afforded the opportunity to do so, despite Dubya's best efforts to drive them to elect a crazy strongman who'll "stand up" to the Texan version of saber-rattling rhetoric.

Bush is spoiling for a fight and he has demonstrated absolutely no interest in resolving any of the problems he has with Iran by such grownup means as talking them out.

Witness the entreaty by Ahmadinejad to do so in debate at the UN, in a letter to Bush, which was met with the bizarre, and curtest possible refusal from Press Secretary Tony Snow that "There's not going to be a steel-cage grudge match between the President and Ahmadinejad."

I don't think there's any doubt that most folks on the planet feel that Dubya is looking for any pretext, no matter how slight, to launch missiles into Iran from the carriers which he is currently amassing in the Gulf.

That's crazy. Really crazy.

What do you think, Dave?

Calm down and talk to us.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 01:19:44 PM
guess who writes: "I do have a couple of comments about this Wilkerson post: he was Colin Powell's aide, isn't it a little late in the game to be sending out an aide?"

Wilkerson wasn't "sent out" by Powell. He resigned the aide position in disgust last year over Powell's-- and his own--behavior in this matter, and has been very vocal about it in semi-penitence ever since.

Where ya been man?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 02:31:49 PM
Chris,
The way Bush is going, however, the Iranians are more likely to rally behind the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad than vote them out. If Bush attacks Iran, he will consolidate the clerical hold on power for a few more generations at least.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 03:45:43 PM
Leslie writes: "If Bush attacks Iran, he will consolidate the clerical hold on power for a few more generations at least."

Which of course would be a perfectly sensible reason for Bush to not pursue this course of action.

At this point, I'm tempted to suggest that perhaps it'd be simplest to just ask the public what they think Bush oughta do, and conclude that Bush is therefore pursuing precisely the opposite.

Waitaminute...

...[shakes head] sorry, just had a fleeting sense of deja vu.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 04:11:58 PM
Leslie writes: "Who decides what's evil?"

Why, Bush of course. See, he's the Decider.

Sorry, I was able to resist this straight line yesterday, but I'm feeling more puckish today. Please accept, by way of apology, a link to a guy who wrote a techno track to go with Bush's famous "decider" speech. And get up and dance.

<a href="http://www.warpcore-project.com/decider.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.warpcore-project.com/decider.html</a>

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Retired
EMAIL: i2739@aol.com
IP: 66.82.9.42
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 04:45:52 PM
Dr. Vosburg, I guess that we're going to have to "call it" on ybnormal.  We did everything we could to salvage his sense of humor, but I guess that some things are just hopeless.

By the way, up here in Santa Barbara, we're in short sleeves again.  I postponed my trip down to LA until next week.  By then, SoCal snow will only be a distant memory, except on the Paramount back lot.  But the rain(making) continues unabated.  Cheers!   
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: farzi
EMAIL: persianoliveoil@hotmail.com
IP: 151.151.21.104
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 05:05:32 PM
Leslie writes: "If Bush attacks Iran, he will consolidate the clerical hold on power for a few more generations at least."

Yup, that's what happened when Saddam attacked Iran in 1980.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.154.123.245
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 12:58:29 AM
Chris Vosburg, U R correct, I missed it. Where was I? Maybe up a tree talking to a squirrel....I'd still like to hear from SecDef Powell * I can't wait to read Tenent's book.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.35.82
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 09:45:05 AM
Good piece Susan.

I always felt Iran saw every value in the pressure pot settling down and no value in it expoding. I see Webb is now settling into his strategic position. This is good news I think....I hope.
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AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: McCain's Support Ebbs, His Temper Is Disturbing
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/18/2007 11:26:30 PM
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[<strong>UPDATE:</strong> Digital shot of photo spread on McCain in the new <em>Vanity Fair</em>, below.] It's common knowledge now that McCain's touted "straight talk" is a sham. It had to be over for even his diehard fans (except Don Imus, who's hopeless) when McCain kept silent after Bush eviscerated his vaunted torture bill with a signing statement. Here's what the witty, wildly popular blogger Atrios <a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_14_atrios_archive.html#116914795868186293">has to say</a> (linking <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012001.php">Josh Marshall's must-read post</a>):

<blockquote>... I definitely agree <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012001.php">that the chance of McCain winning is pretty poor</a>. McCain's "base" are his fluffers in the media, independent voters, and Democrats who once admired him for some reason I never quite understood (not as awful as Bush never seemed like an especially compelling reason to want someone to be president). McCain's been trying to court the lunatic Republicans while assuming that the media fluffers would cover for him enough that the independent voters wouldn't notice. I imagine that might have worked if not for Iraq.</blockquote>

<em><strong>BELOW, McCain's terrible temper:</strong></em>
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<a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/mccain.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href, '_blank', 'width=800,height=653,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,toolbar=no,directories=no,location=no,menubar=no,status=no,left=0,top=0'); return false"><img alt="Mccain" title="Mccain" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/mccain.jpg" width="410" height="334" border="0"  /></a>

<strong>UPDATE: </strong>Digital camera shot of photo spread and article on McCain in the latest <em>Vanity Fair</em> magazine.  Photo by my daughter.  <em>Any captions come to mind?</em>

:::::::::::::::::::::::

Atrios <a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_14_atrios_archive.html#116914795868186293">continues</a>:

<blockquote>I used to worry that McCain the candidate would be hard to beat (though I believed that less than some). Now I hope he's the guy. It's his war now.</blockquote>

<em>It's HIS war now.</em>  How true.  Democratic candidate John Edwards has taken to calling the escalation the "McCain Doctrine." Which is why I wonder why MoveOn is running TV ads against McCain's pro-escalation position. McCain's doing alright cooking his own goose.

McCain's temper problem, which the "media fluffers" avoid bringing up, is a true concern. It's widely known in Washington, D.C. political circles and in the U.S. Senate.  However, his temper doesn't get mentioned much, if at all (?), on the talking head shows. Just like nobody I've heard, except Diane Rehm, has mentioned that Barack Obama is a smoker.  Some subjects, apparently, are too delicate for public discourse.  But a bad temper is a potentially lethal problem, especially in the intense environs of the White House.  

Here's what Sidney Blumenthal <a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/01/18/mccain/">wrote today</a> in <em>Salon</em>:

<blockquote>McCain's political colleagues [know] another side of the action hero -- a volatile man with a hair-trigger temper, who shouted at Sen. Ted Kennedy on the Senate floor to "shut up," called his fellow Republican senators "shithead," "fucking jerk," "asshole," and joked in 1998 at a Republican fundraiser about the teenage daughter of President Clinton, "Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father." As recently as a few months ago, McCain suddenly rushed up to a friend of mine, a prominent Washington attorney, at a social event, and threatened to beat him up because he represented a client McCain happened to dislike, and then, just as suddenly, profusely and tearfully apologized.

Within the Republican Party nearly everyone who has had serious dealings with McCain distrusts him (including traditional Republican moderates, not just conservatives). While taking right-wing positions on social issues like abortion and gay marriage, his simmering resentment of Bush led him to virtually caucus with the Democrats in early 2001 (before Sept. 11), using the Democratic Leadership Council as his back channel. Then, abruptly, he rushed to embrace Bush [wne it became politically advantageous].</blockquote>

Blumenthal also covers the torture bill debacle:

<blockquote>McCain had belatedly taken the lead in opposing Bush's torture policy, an issue that could not be more personal for him. But after the Supreme Court last year declared Bush's secret tribunals for detainees and use of extreme interrogation techniques illegal, Bush sought congressional approval of his revised version of the program. At first, McCain fought Bush, but the right attacked him, in a campaign some of his advisors said they had reason to believe Karl Rove had whipped up. <strong>McCain quickly capitulated, even agreeing to suspension of habeas corpus</strong>. McCain, as someone close to him explained to me, figured he could continue to play the issue when he became chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee in the next Congress. Asked about the chance the Democrats might take control, McCain declared, "I think I'd just commit suicide."</blockquote>

Josh Marshall <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012001.php">reveals</a> how McCain's star is falling:

<blockquote>A new ARG poll shows that over the past year, McCain's support among New Hampshire independents has dropped from 49% to 29%. And ARG President Dick Bennett says those numbers are in line with what he's seeing in other states too.</blockquote>

The support of independents is critical to McCain's chances:

<blockquote>One suspects (and this may be borne out in more detailed poll data) that the two big reasons for the collapse in independent support for McCain are his status as an Iraq war dead-ender and the fact that he's spent the last three years making nice with right-wingers and right-wing policy initiaitives that independents don't like. Remember too that, despite all the kowtowing, there are big leaders on the religious right who <a href="http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jan/16/mccain_i_want_a_dialogue_with_dobson">say they'll never support his candidacy</a> for president.

[...]

His claim to fame, what supposedly makes him such a strong contender is his support among independent voters. But they don't like him anymore.</blockquote>

Blumenthal <a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/01/18/mccain/">explains</a> in part why, as Josh Marshall <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012001.php">asserts</a>, the independents don't like McCain anymore:

<blockquote>As the neoconservatives abandoned Bush's sinking ship, McCain welcomed them aboard. "McCain began reading The Weekly Standard and conferring with its editors, particularly Bill Kristol," the New Republic magazine reported. And he hired a board member of the neocon Project for the New American Century, Randy Scheunemann, as his foreign policy aide.

McCain positioned himself as consistently belligerent, even to Bush's right: in favor of bombing Iran and North Korea. He also proposed a "surge" of troops into Iraq, an idea gleaned from the neocons. If Bush adopted the Iraq Study Group's approach of diplomacy and redeployment, which McCain assailed as "dispiriting," the right would hail McCain as a prophet with honor. Unfortunately, McCain's strategy depended on Bush's not adopting his proposal. Importuned by the same neocons who had sold it to McCain, Bush seized upon the "surge."

McCain had trapped himself. ...
</blockquote>

I fear a President McCain.  His strategy for his presidential run shows that he'll sell his soul to try to get support and votes, and that he's willing to adopt dangerous, extremist, Neo-con positions.  It's one thing that he's "trapped himself"; it'd be quite another if he trapped the nation in dangerous belligerency as Bush has done. Then there's that temper.  We currently have an emotionally short-circuited, adolescent president.  We've had unstable, paranoid presidents in the past.  We don't need either in '09.  We need clear eyes and a clear mind.  And we need the "media fluffers" to speak out and tell the American people what this guy is really like.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 12:23:22 AM
Rove continues to tear McCain a new one, but he can't figure it out.  You know damn good and well Rove told McCain if you support our war effort no matter what, I promise all the donors, all the pioneers, will be funding your run in 08.  So Saint McCain worships the boy king every chance he gets, but he's so focused on the prize he doesn't realize 70% of the country has turned on his hero, big time.  Perhaps the prospect of unspeakable power overwhelmed a once honorable man.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: GSD
EMAIL: gsiggob@verizon.net
IP: 70.20.55.91
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 01:44:58 AM
Poor Charlie Brown McCain. He can't see Lucy Rove getting ready to pull the ball away from him again.

Sucker.

-GSD
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shaman ∞ 
EMAIL: prth@earthlink.net
IP: 207.69.137.206
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 02:19:37 AM
Yea,and seeing McCain and Lieberman together just makes my heart jump for joy.
Hasn't Bush kissed both of these guys?
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 05:15:00 AM
No more Al Qaeda number threes to kill, I guess Al Sadr's press secretary/PR man will do?

BAGHDAD, Iraq - 'U.S. and Iraqi forces arrested one of Muqtada al-Sadr's top aides Friday in Baghdad, his office said, as pressure increases on the radical Shiite cleric's militia ahead of a planned security sweep aimed at stemming the sectarian violence ransacking the capital.

Sheik Abdul-Hadi al-Darraji, al-Sadr's media director in Baghdad, was captured Friday and his personal guard was killed, according to another senior al-Sadr aide.'
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070119/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070119/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq</a>

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: myiq2xu
EMAIL: voodooh8er@sbcglobal.net
IP: 69.225.24.168
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 08:01:37 AM
Poor McCain.  He made a deal with the Devil wherein he sold his soul in exchange for the 2008 GOP nomination, thinking that he would then easily waltz into the White House as the successor to the enormously popular Dubya.  
Now, his attempt to distance himself from Mad (would-be) King George has resulted in the planned escalation in Iraq being dubbed the "McCain Doctrine."
He'll probably get the GOP nomination, because no one else who could win the wing-nut base is likely to run against him, but our next president will most likely be a Democrat.
Worst of all for McCain, if Hillary, Barack or whomever the Dems decide upon manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and sends St. John to the White House, he'll not only inherit "Mess O" Potamia" but he'll be the guy that the wing-nuts blame for "losing" Iraq.  Kinda like being Unlucky Pierre in a prison menage a trois.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sky-Ho
EMAIL: ad4271@hotmail.com
IP: 67.101.81.28
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 09:59:53 AM
I wonder if McCain's increasingly volatile and inconsistent behavior, at least in part, can be explained by his incarceration and torture.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcglobal.net
IP: 70.90.138.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 10:22:29 AM
As far as his temper goes - I would think his imprisonment and subsequent torture would not have come without a terrible cost. So I would give him a break there. Disturbing? Yes.

As far as the rest, well let me just say this, anything about Sen. McCain followed by 'maverick' or 'the straight talk express' pretty much makes me cringe. He is certainly a conflicted man and has his demons to wrestle with. I wish the poor guy well but not at the expense of our country. I strongly believe he has lost his independent support and sadly, his moral compass. Pandering to Dobson? yecchhh 
On a lighter note..

A section of Isaac Hayes' "Shaft" lyrics comes to mind.

"You see this cat Shaft is a bad mother--
(Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' about Shaft
(Then we can dig it)

He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman.."

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 11:58:03 AM
RE: Atrios: "...and Democrats who once admired him for some reason I never quite understood..."

I have to admit that in 2000, I would have seriously considered voting for McCain, had he been the GOP nominee instead of W.  My number one reason; the McCain Feingold Campaign Reform bill.  Even though he had a lot to disagree with, I felt he was more likely to stand up on my behalf for making my vote mean something; more even than Al Gore, who couldn't even stand up to W's piss-fit bullying during the election debates.  If Gore couldn't stand up for himself, why should he bother standing up for me?

So what's happening to McCain?  Why does he seem to be dis-assembling?  He just doesn't seem like the same guy.

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Larry Johnson
EMAIL: lcjohnso@ix.netcom.com
IP: 72.83.149.251
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 12:00:09 PM
McCain is a nut job.  I have friends who work for Republicans who have experienced McCain's wrath firsthand.  Give him a couple of steel balls and you have Captain Queeg.

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Anthony Scott
EMAIL: TonyWVs@earthlink.net
IP: 24.199.84.248
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 12:28:35 PM
McCain  may profit politically or- - - conversely - - find himself the latest victim  of the Bush/Rove strategy of using and discarding individuals whose legitimacy( Think Colin Powell) bolsters whatever corrupt gambit being pursued by these two characters. There is good reason to believe that “The Surge” is just another bit of Rovean misdirection meant to bait Democrats into cutting off funding for any further escalation in the former Iraq. Once it is established that the Democrats have “Cut and Run” Rove and his crew can position the President and by extension a  Presidential candidate(McCain?)- - - who, sufficiently outrage by Democratic perfidy,  can now propagate  the old “Stabbed in the back” rhetoric so successfully used by the Brownshirts of 1920's Germany or the Reaganites of the post Vietnam 1970's.  I can just hear the usual suspects- - -right wing Capitol Hill ideologues and the talking terds of Republiscum Cable television fulminating against the cowardly Democrats for losing the war in Iraq. On the other hand, if the Democrats have the courage to define the “Surge” for what it is-  - a pathetic attempt by Bush and Co.  to run out the clock and pass responsibility of this tragic, neo-imperial folly onto the shoulders of someone- -anyone other than themselves then McCain could come to be seen as an overly ambitious toady willing to go along with a political ploy that has little real strategic value. Hell, I can even see George Bush blaming McCain for the escalation if it all goes south- - - the way Rumsfeld  sought to blame Tommy Franks when it became apparent that the initial war plan began to fail.  No matter what the political outcome is- - - the only certain outcome, if this escalation goes forward,  is  more death and maiming of our brave men and women in Iraq.. 

I also wonder if there is a split between the  Bush/ Rove faction and the Cheney faction. I find it hard to believe that Uncle Dickie has given up on his illusory Oil Pimp dreams of creating a permanent controlling presence in the former Iraq. 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/19/2007 12:39:51 PM
Taters, your compassion is good. It's impossible to even imagine what he went through. But, if I recall, before his horrible imprisonment he was a wild one who barely made it through the naval academy.  

Bush was a wild one too.  Maureen Dowd wrote (one or two columns ago) about how Bush was obsessed with playing Risk at Yale, and that he took incredible chances as a player.

As for selling one's soul, the Democrats have many examples too.  One that comes to mind is Harold Ford.  As defeat loomed in the closing weeks of his Tennessee Senate campaign last fall, he went WAY overboard with his Jesus talk, etc., so much so he seemed (to me) insincere and grasping for the fundies' votes.    And nobody tried harder than Ford to prove how tough he'd be on terrorists.  Another is Joe Biden, who's made some astonishing comments in South Carolina as he tries to build a presidential candidacy team there.... he's even inferred his home state Delaware was sympatico with the pro-slavery South during the Civil War.  (I don't have links for that, but Kos has written it up, with exact quotes.)  (Biden frustrates me because, when he talks foreign policy, sometimes he makes great sense and it's clear he knows a lot.)  

Don't know why these guys go overboard when they're campaigning.  Gore and Kerry did that too, to their ultimate detriment.  

In that regard, Hillary's caution as a candidate is almost refreshing.


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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 02:02:34 PM
Biden frustrates me too. He sometimes makes so much sense, especially on foreign policy matters. Then other times.... For example: He supported the war on Iraq, he just disagreed with the way Bush handled it. "Nuance," he kept saying. How could he support an unprovoked war on Iraq, when they weren't a threat???

There's a slickness to Biden too that I find unappealing. He tried to suggest Delaware was sympatico with slavery during the Civil War? Geesh.

Hillary's caution is the butt of a lot of cartoons: One I saw has Hillary wondering whether to smile at a constituent during her presidential bid. Whether she should smile, how broadly, what the ramifications could be—shared in her thought bubble. Opposite her is Obama with a big wide smile, shaking hands with the same constituent. Obama's bubble just says "Hello!" Pretty well sums up their styles.

Regarding Gore and Kerry: it's a toss-up who ran the worst campaign EVER.

McCain is a NUT.




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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 02:26:06 PM
"he's even inferred his home state Delaware was sympatico with the pro-slavery South during the Civil War."

Delaware was a slave state. Because the Emancipation Proclamation only affected the states in rebellion, and Delaware remained officially neutral, Delaware actually still had slaves until slavery was officially abolished by the 13th Amendment. Delaware's slaves were the very last slaves in the US to be freed (along with some slaves in Kentucky).

I grew up in PA almost within walking distance of Delaware. I probably spent more time in my early driving days driving there (the drinking age was lower in DE back in the day) than in PA. I currently live only about 20 min from the DE border.

I've been exposed to Biden his entire political career. I kind of liked him in the early days. But I have come to realize that he is a fatuous ego-obsessed media whore. I'd love to see him replaced. But Delaware is a funny state politically. It is very, very small and almost the entire population is crammed in the northern-most of its 3 counties. Delawarians like the guy, and he probably can stay in the Senate as long as he wants (which is probably as long as he is still breathing, unless he can finagle a promotion).
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcglobal.net
IP: 70.90.138.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 02:30:43 PM
Thanks Susan re compassion. ( You know how us crystal gazin' birkenstock wearin' tree huggers are ) His father barely made it through Annapolis. I believe that is a tradition, seriously - it was a matter of pride to barely make it. As far as the rest of his naval career, he wasn't able to follow in his father's footsteps. I'm not qualified to give a professional opinion ( Yet I will anyway  :D )but it seems he has misdirected anger and some serious issues. Hell, maybe he should have yelled at Jane Fonda and definitely gotten really mad at GWB/Rove for those really dirty campaign smears/tricks in '08. Who is directing his campaign, the Kerry folks? It's wrong at every turn. Maybe it will be Huckabee after all. It's too bad - the GOP has Chuck Hagel, who is a social conservative and would make a great candidate for them, but does he have the proverbial snowball's chance?

Great writing/reporting as usual Susan.  
 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/19/2007 02:43:11 PM
"Delaware was a slave state. ..."

I believe you, Shargash.  I was just surprised that he'd use that in a speech in So. Carolina to win people over.  Ugh.

How's YOUR new senator doing?  I saw him on the Foreign Relations comm. hearings last week, didn't really pay attention to what he said/asked.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcglobal.net
IP: 70.90.138.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 02:52:10 PM
Re upstream. In 2000, as opposed to '08 - my mistake.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 02:59:15 PM
I haven't heard much from my new senator. So far, if he sits there like a lump of coal or the dust bunnies in my corners, he's an immense improvement over his predecessor. Other than that, I really don't have very high hopes for him. He is someone who appeared on Fox News to trash the Democrats and back the administration last summer.

As for Biden, I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were saying Delawarians weren't sympathetic to the pro-slavery south during the Civil War. I missed the point that Biden was saying that to suck up to Georgians.

Like McCain, Biden would sell his soul to be president. However, the Devil doesn't shop at the five & dime. :)
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: David S
EMAIL: Willylo11723@cs.com
IP: 172.164.31.22
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 04:26:48 PM
McCain, Hillary, Barack, Bush, it does not matter. Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats.  The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, opening mail, banning books like "America Deceived' from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly.  They are both guilty of treason. 
Vote Dr. Ron Paul 2008.
Support indy media.
Last link (before Google Books bends to gov't Will and drops the title):
<a href="http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0" rel="nofollow">http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0</a> 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Marlowe
EMAIL: chris.marlowe@yahoo.com
IP: 71.135.171.83
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 04:37:30 PM
Poor McCain...

He's like the captain who got ON the Titanic after she hit the iceberg, and said "Don't stop! We must go faster; we can make New York before she goes down! I know we can do it! I know we can do it!"
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/19/2007 06:42:56 PM
David, that's an overstatement.  Sure, there are problems in both parties.  But I can tell you one thing with absolute certainty:  Neither Democrat presidential candidate who ran against Bush in 2000 or 2004 would have gotten us into the mess in Iraq, nor would his party have urged him to do so (except Lieberman).

Then there's the new Congress.  The House has completed its 100 Hour feat in half the time.  Here's one example of what the new Democratic majority has done:

"[Yesterday] the House of Representatives passed H.R. 6 by a vote of 364 to 163. H.R. 6 repeals major oil company subsidies and invests in renewable energy."
-- from a Democratic Congresswoman

And that's just one of the pieces of legislation passed.

Today I read that the House Democrats will try to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine.  WOW.

Then there are the hearings last week, and this.  Gonzales got his ears blistered yesterday, and he's shuffling policies to try to get out of the crosshairs of the Democratic majority.  Ditto Rice, Gates, Pace, etc.

That old saw about there being no difference belongs solely to cynics who don't look at the facts and don't support good acts.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/19/2007 06:51:25 PM
More from the first 100 hours:

-- passed the common sense and bipartisan recommendations of the 9/11 Commission

-- cut the interest rates on student loans, raised the minimum wage for hard-working Americans, and negotiated for better prescription drug costs for Medicare

-- promoted stem cell research

-- passed strict new rules to ensure honest leadership, clamping down on earmarks, lobbyists' behaviors and runaway deficits

source:
<a href="http://www.dccc.org/r/52766/2264666/" rel="nofollow">http://www.dccc.org/r/52766/2264666/</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 07:31:01 PM
AP via Yahoo reported today:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi contended Friday that President Bush is rushing new troops to Iraq and betting that Congress won't cut off funds once they're in battle. The White House called her assertion "poisonous."

(then further down)
White House spokeswoman Dana Perino retorted...

"Those particular comments were poisonous," Perino said. "I think questioning the president's motivations and suggesting that he, for some political reason, is rushing troops into harm's way, is not appropriate, it is not correct, and it is unfortunate because we do have troops in harm's way."

----------
...which means what?
that he's not rushing them into harm's way because...they're already there?
And its "unfortunate" for anyone in congress to question because its...its...its just "poisonous" to suggest the president might not be cooperative!

Lions and Tigers and...Nancy!  Oh My!

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Horton Heath
EMAIL: alfonsobedoya@hotmail.com
IP: 72.193.71.84
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 05:27:03 AM
Memo to McCain: Go get a Private Sector job (a first in your family) or live on your Keating-supplied ill gotten gains and stay off my TV screen.

You have become as biliious and offensive as Bert Convy.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 02:48:04 PM
Sure sounds like there's more to McCain's dark side than I knew.  The veteran's group U.S. Veteran's Dispatch (whoever they are) sounds like they hate his guts.  So who is he really; Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker, or maybe both?

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Other Tom
EMAIL: TMM89@san.rr.com
IP: 24.161.190.159
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 06:43:36 PM
THE MARCH TO FASCISM (CONT.)

Further dismaying evidence that it all began during the tenure of the estimable W. Jefferson Clinton:

"'If you made a phone call today or sent an e—mail to a friend, there's a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country's largest intelligence agency.' (Steve Kroft, CBS' 60 Minutes)

"Those words were aired on February 27, 2000 to describe the National Security Agency and an electronic surveillance program called Echelon whose mission, according to Kroft, 

"'is to eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups and drug cartels. But in the process, Echelon's computers capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world.'

"Echelon was, or is (its existence has been under—reported in the American media), an electronic eavesdropping program conducted by the United States and a few select allies such as the United Kingdom. 

"Tellingly, the existence of the program was confirmed not by the New York Times or the Washington Post or by any other American media outlet — these were the Clinton years, after all, and the American media generally treats Democrat administrations far more gently than Republican administrations — but by an Australian government official in a statement made to an Australian television news show."

The NY Times described Echelon as "necessary."
 


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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sometime-CIA-Defender
EMAIL: wizofice@hotmail.com
IP: 24.215.142.153
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 07:51:30 PM
Confession time.

I admit to being a Dem supporter of McCain in 2000.  Having actually fought for his country and seemingly calling it like it is even when his party towed a different line, he seemed by far the lesser of three evils after 911.  I don't think that qualifies as "not as bad as Bush".  Also, I didn't think Gore could possibly beat Bush (was wrong about that, too, in a non-judicial-branch/standing-your-ground sort of way).

Finally, I thought that the temper issue (that is, the dangerous temper... I think any president can and should have one provided he can still make rational decisions) was something cooked up by Rove.  Now it appears I was incorrect about that too.

Well, it's nice to be able to change one's mind when presented with the facts.  Wish there were more of that in the world. :)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcglobal.net
IP: 70.90.138.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 11:53:25 AM
Did he ( McCain )seem medicated to anyone else on Meet the Press yesterday?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Phillip
EMAIL: philliparmstrong@rogers.com
IP: 199.198.254.100
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 02:19:27 PM
Listening to John McCain on Meet-the-Press on the weekend, he appears a little out of touch and a bit of a shell of a man. 

Can't there be some new younger fresher leadership, even on the Republican side?

He comes across as being all about politics and getting elected these days. He is also a pretty conservative old guy from a pretty conservative part of the world. 

I really do not see the attractiveness of John McCain. Just because he has a admirable war record and has been elected many times does not mean that he is particularly smart or has the right ideas for the future. American can do better than this guy....
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 203.27.155.62
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 06:46:30 AM
Mart, honour is only an opinion. Opinions change.

McCain seems bent on control and now the elements have changed he's not been able to weather the storm. 

I like that quote, David S...."there's not a dime worth of difference between Democrat and Republican."

While commercial and enterprise value is the focus of politicians we are not going to see a great deal of change. It is America, not Iraq who need, nay deserve, a civil war. This might convince some heartless people to invest in hearts.

Bush is just the beginning. He's opened the bag. Now the cay's out, what will it do?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 02/06/2007 02:36:43 PM
My uncle trained the same school as McCain.

He was first in his class.

McCain was fourth from last, and an Admiral/Carrier Commander's son.

Also, Much of John McCain's staffers/consultant harken back to links with Enron or other power sharers from that energy portfolio.
-----


--------
AUTHOR: Larry Johnson
TITLE: Choosing Sides
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: 0
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/19/2007 09:37:22 PM
-----
BODY:
<p>by<br />Larry C Johnson</p>

<p>As we leap off the cliff into the yawning maw of violence that awaits us in Iraq we might want to figure out which side we are on.&nbsp; Until now, US forces have spent most of their time targeting and killing Sunni insurgents with two major exceptions--April 2004 and November 2004.&nbsp; On those occasions we fought Moqtada al-Sadr's forces and those two months marked some of the highest U.S. casualties since the war started in 2003.&nbsp; December 2006 was another highwater mark for U.S. fatalities in Iraq only this one at the hand of the Sunnis.&nbsp; At the dawn of 2007 we are going to fight the Shia again.</p>

<p>We have four basic choices confronting us in Iraq:</p>

<ol><li>Fight the Sunni insurgents (there are at least 15 separate groups) and risk alienating the Saudis, the Jordanians, and the Turks.</li>

<li>Fight the Shia insurgents/militia, which means we will engage 60% of Iraq's population (and strengthen the hand of Shia-led Iran).</li>

<li>Fight both the Sunni and Shia and put ourselves in the middle of the civil war.</li>

<li>Retire from Iraq and let the Sunni and Shia sort things out among their various sectarian factions.&nbsp; </li></ol>

<p>There really are no other logical options.&nbsp; It looks like Bush chose Option 3.</p>
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
<p>By engaging both Sunni and Shia we will have a surge--a surge in U.S. casualties that is.&nbsp; But we are not going to be fighting two separate insurgencies.&nbsp; Nope.&nbsp; It is worse than that.&nbsp; We will be faced with in excess of 20 separate insurgent groups.&nbsp; Some cooperate with each other but most do not.</p>

<p>Unfortunately the United States military has neither planned nor prepared to fight twenty plus separate insurgent groups.&nbsp; A counterinsurgency plan is not the same thing as a plan to confront and defeat multiple insurgencies.&nbsp; And the icing on the cake is that we get to do this in the midst of a civil war.</p>

<p>Conventional armies can defeat civilian insurgents but the price in terms of civilian casualties and destruction of infrastructure is enormous.&nbsp; The Germans in World War II defeated the Polish Home Army in Warsaw in 63 days.&nbsp; Of course they demolished most of Warsaw, but hey, they won the battle.</p>

<p>A military course of action to identify and root out insurgent groups will be accompanied by significant Iraqi civilian casualties.&nbsp; Troops going house to house trying to maneuver in narrow streets will be ripe targets for snipers, ambushes, and concealed explosives.&nbsp; As we roust civilians from their beds we will provoke more Iraqi opposition to the U.S. presence in Iraq and will produce more support and recruits for the various insurgent forces.&nbsp; And that serves what U.S. policy objective?</p>

<p>We may not like it but there is no clean exit for us.&nbsp; &nbsp;Whatever choice we make it must take into account our broader interests in the region.&nbsp; Ironically the option that might best serve our regional interests vis-a-vis Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait is the one we are least likely to pursue.&nbsp; As we intensify pressure against the Shia do not be surprised as the violence spills over and Iran becomes more fully engaged in the fray.</p>
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Bill Keyes
EMAIL: bill564@cox.net
IP: 68.231.179.110
URL: 
DATE: 01/19/2007 10:56:53 PM
......" and Iran becomes more fully engaged in the fray."

Taking this last line from larry's well written assessment,  I would have to point out that isn't this exactly what the Bush administration is going for?

Another excuse to attack Iran??

Just a thought......
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: GR3
EMAIL: gregoline@aplus.net
IP: 64.24.201.144
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 12:24:48 AM
The mystery of 'WHY?' confounds nearly everyone. I like to think it's all for the big money to be made, but maybe it's simpler and a lot stupider.
Option 3 appears like an evenhanded and neutral course. Or maybe it's wild optimism about US military capabilities. Could the pResident simply love the violence and killing? (Did you watch his face in the Hews Hour interview? Scary.) 
Of course, he could also simply be following Cheney's orders. 
Too bad option 4 would require multiple impeachments first.  
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.154.123.245
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 02:37:15 AM
"The Germans in World War II defeated the Polish in Warsaw in 63 days. Ofcourse they demolished most of Warsaw..." I  read an article alledging that when SecState Condi Rice speaks of "The  NEW Middle East" she is espousing the political/military concept of Creative Destruction,  exemplified in such phrases as "Sometimes you have to destroy the village in order to save the village." What is the NEW Middle East? Realize I'm dodging your mind wrecking multiple  choice question, however it's impossible to choose without understanding the LONG range objective(s) &  justification. Realize it's odd that I'm asking you to explain but I don't understand what she is advocating. I'm still trying to figure out what The NEW World Order is. Is this part of that? Is the proposed North American Union part of this? Is this Builderburgers on acid?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Graybeard
EMAIL: RickyDik@ix.netcom.com
IP: 71.116.167.237
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 08:53:04 AM
20 insurgent groups? Rather than civil war, this looks more like anarchy to me.

The best way to minimize bloodshed would be to divide Iraq until maybe someday when they are at peace with each other.  That would be the humanitarian thing to do.  There was a divided Berlin for 45 years; why not a divided Baghdad?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: bg
EMAIL: bg_iz@yahoo.com
IP: 24.159.63.165
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 10:27:10 AM
Larry,

in regards to fighting the Shia, please don't confuse Jaysh Al Mahdi with 60% of the population.  I really don't believe that all Shia will rally behind Sadr or his militia.  While that is the most dangerous enemy course of action, it is more likely at this point that Jaysh al Mahdi are still shell shocked from 2004, they won't engage. And when they do, as we saw in Amarah last fall, the Badr organization will exploit that opportunity to fight off the Mahdi. 

So far, the biggest litmus test is the detainment of Duraji who was picked up a couple of days ago.  The last time anyone of this stature was picked up was Yaqub in April 2004, which led to the April 2004 uprisings.  So far, all is quiet on the Mahdi front after that detention.  There will surely be some demonstrations, but right now things are actually looking fairly positive.

It may be too early to be optimistic, but we should pay attention to these early signs of success.  We are playing with fire, this I will admit, but what we are doing today is what needed to be done at the end of 2004.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 69.59.206.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 10:55:20 AM
is there any logical reason for selecting #3 when it will cause more problems, and not fix any problems?

why exactly would we have any benefit in being involved in a war without end?

we have to reverse engineer this one,  so what are the probable outcomes with this in mind?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/20/2007 12:13:41 PM
Couple items I ran across this morning:

Kurds Desert Iraqi Army To Avoid Baghdad "Surge"
<a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/20/31533/2268" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/20/31533/2268</a>
-- based on a McClatchy story

Sadr fears for life in security crackdown
Moqtada al-Sadr has moved his family to a secure location because of fears he will become the target of a security sweep of Baghdad, it was reported today.
ALL:
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1994458,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1994458,00.html</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: John
EMAIL: jmassie@shentel.net
IP: 204.111.21.56
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 12:36:23 PM
Google Cheney, Dresser and asbestos and you will see yet again that the people running our government are ignorant, incompetent, and corrupt crony capitalists who are expert at surrounding themselves with sycophants and suckups while they bumble from one disaster to another that others have to clean up.
Actually, the war in Iraq is Cheney's way of helping to clean up the asbestos disaster he created for Halliburton.  Also, look at the Dresser-Bush connection and you see more corrupt cronyism.  Free market my ass, suckers.  
Oh, we are so screwed.  I just pray we can get thru the next two years.
Cheers, John
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Diane
EMAIL: patyjewicz5@charter.net
IP: 68.114.71.164
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 01:07:43 PM
How much fighting do mercenaries do? Do they replace or work with our troops in Iraq? Can the pentagon/President raise their numbers without alerting the congress or American people?
Also another question.
I saw this on TV.
When this "escalation" was being discussed, whomever asked the question was told that the number of casulties, soldiers and or Iraq's could not be estimated. Is this true?
Isn't that the first thing a responsible commander in chief would ask before sending troops in?
Is this number so bad that it would not be released or do they not really do this sort of thing?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 01:28:54 PM
There's a spooky similarity between the W Admin's choices of action, and the Nazi approach to attacking countries; namely, setting the stage for straw man pretexts to name countries as enemies, so they can be attacked; or in lay language, lame-ass phoney excuses.  An analagy for their doomed strategy is, its like deciding to exterminate all bees because for some reason every time we hit their hive with a sledge hammer, they get pissed and sting us.  Remember when Condi said they were tired of swatting flies?  Time to bring on the hammer!

The goal is described in plain english, albeit more moderately than in actual practice, on the Project for the New American Century public web site, otherwise known as NeoCon Central.  In summary, American predominance in the world.  The W Admin goal is the natural result of PNAC predominance in the White House.

In the earlier 2000's, a popular joke was to compare Bush/Cheney with Pinky and the Brain - "What are we doin' tonight Brain?" "The same thing we do every night Pinky, try to take over the world!"

At the time it was funny.  Not anymore.  Why?  Because its becoming more apparant that truth is stranger than fiction.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.99
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 02:13:15 PM
Bill Keyes writes: " and Iran becomes more fully engaged in the fray."

"Taking this last line from larry's well written assessment, I would have to point out that isn't this exactly what the Bush administration is going for? Another excuse to attack Iran??"
---------

Agree. In Bush's limited world view, every conflagration he creates becomes an excuse to start another. The Bushies will hype Iran's alleged role in Iraq, while downplaying other regional players such as the Saudis. Bush will hype Iran's growing regional influence as a direct threat to the US, and Iran's nearing the deadline on UN Resolution 1737 demand to dump its nuclear program. Even though no one in the Bush administration really knows much about Iran or the Middle East.

A couple news items I saw today, in case anyone missed them: An ex-Rice speechwriter confirms what we already knew, Condi doesn't have 'vaguest notion' of Middle East history"
<a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/ExRice_speechwriter_She_doesnt__have_0119.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/ExRice_speechwriter_She_doesnt__have_0119.html</a>

The New Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Senator Jay Rockefeller [D-WV], who has access to classified intelligence, says Bush's campaign against internationall terrorism was "still a mystery" to Bush. "I don't think he understands the world," Rockefeller said. "I don't think he's particularly curious about the world. I don't think he reads like he says he does."
<a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/NY_Times_Parallels_to_Iraq_in_0119.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/NY_Times_Parallels_to_Iraq_in_0119.html</a> 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcgobal.net
IP: 75.45.219.2
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 04:04:46 PM
Thanks Larry. Excellent.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: guess who
EMAIL: yougotit@earthlink.net
IP: 4.154.77.15
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 04:38:07 PM
Susan, Didn't Maliki tell al Sadr to lay low & this also will pass? I checked out your 2 referenced sites re: Kurds> To date noone will comment on that map (showing a reunification of Kurdistan, an expanded Persia, etc @ Global research. ca (U.S. War Agenda) (Plans for redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a NEW Middle East by Madhi Darius Nazemroaya) I think the article alledges this is Condi's plan? Will someone PLEASE comment on this article. Is this what she is advocating? Or is anyone advocating that map? What is that map?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: EasyRider
EMAIL: englandx@cubuffs.com
IP: 68.105.177.34
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 05:43:42 PM
yeap, I agree.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Jonathan
EMAIL: jcroad@bellsouth.net
IP: 68.223.118.211
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 05:44:33 PM
<a href="http://www.capitolhillblue.com/news2/2007/01/pentagon_memo_p-print.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.capitolhillblue.com/news2/2007/01/pentagon_memo_p-print.html</a>


Pentagon planners this week warned President George W. Bush that his "troop surge" plan could double U.S. casualties in Iraq in the coming year and result in 10,000 or more American deaths by the end of 2008.

In a classified assessment memo, military experts predicted violence against U.S. troops will increase "at a sustained pace" and concluded that increasing the use of soldiers for house to house searches in Baghdad will "dramatically alter" the "ratio of casualties to actions" in that civil-war torn city, says a military source familiar with the memo.

The Pentagon report admitted battle weary soldiers are more prone to mistakes that lead to casualties and noted that military personnel sent to Iraq for third and possibly fourth tours increase the odds that those soldiers will become casualties of war.

The memo concluded that American military deaths could top 6,000 by the end of 2007 and exceed 10,000 or more in 2008 with more than 100,000 wounded and/or maimed for life.

In an appearance before the Senate Armed Services committee Thursday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice refused to provide an estimate of U.S. casualties, saying such estimates are not possible but the Pentagon assessment had been delivered to the White House on Tuesday, two days before her testimony.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: GSD
EMAIL: gsiggob@verizon.net
IP: 70.109.129.102
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 06:19:15 PM
21 US troops killed in Iraq today.

One chopper down.

Reports of a "militia attack" in Karbala. Yep, the reports are a militia attack, not Al Qaeda, insurgents or terrorists.

Bush and McCain are getting the surge they wanted.

We'll see what happens to the Shiites now.

-GSD
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: getalife
EMAIL: get@yahoo.com
IP: 68.226.243.60
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 09:22:29 PM
I think this guy has nailed it:

<a href="http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/010907Floyd.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/010907Floyd.shtml</a>


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris from Maine
EMAIL: achorn316@gmail.com
IP: 76.179.74.23
URL: http://achorn.blogspot.com
DATE: 01/20/2007 09:48:23 PM
my choice is number 4.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: strawberrybitch
EMAIL: dishanddishonesty@msn.com
IP: 4.179.51.114
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 09:51:12 PM
This is for shits and giggles for all you folks with better insight into Iraq than I have...let's say that the US never invaded at all, let's just say, either somebody got lucky and picked off Sadddam and not one of his doppelgangers OR what if Saddam just keeled over due to too many stogies and doritoes (that's what was reported he liked in prison, right?)...so what would Iraq  have looked like then?  Wouldn't the same fighting be going on that's happening now?  I mean, look what happened after Britain bailed, how many coups were there until Saddam was helped to power by us in "78?  Just what was the US plan if Saddam had been offed?  Couldn't we implement that plan now...oh wait, they hate us now, nevermind.  PS, Larry if you're reading this, you may know a close family member of mine, he just retired.  
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick henry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.111.128
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 11:07:53 PM
Today..someone explained President Bushs decision making Proceedure..so this May help answer some of you Who Question Why & How.. 

President Bush has never really trusted anyone Anyhow..but he has needed someone to talk things over With..A Close Advisor..A`Loyal friend..

So He Talks Things over with Barny..who listens Closely..a thoughful look on his Face..

When President Bush asked.."Barny..should I attack Iraq..?? "

Barny Went..."YAP"

When bush asked if he should Let Don Rumsfeld run the War...Barny went "YAP"..

When President Bush asked if he should keep sending More Troops and spend Lots more Money on the War..

Barny went "YAP.."

and thats how President Bush makes Decisions..by asking Barnys Opinion..

and Barny always go's YAP..

and thats why the IRAQ~ WAR
has gone to the DOGS..


You Might call it..

THE DOGS OF WAR...

I asked my Dog if President Bush makes Stupid Decisions..


My Dog went 'YAP"...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick henry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.111.128
URL: 
DATE: 01/20/2007 11:39:15 PM
After todays killing of our Troops..it looks like someone is trying to Insure that President Bush WILL send more Troops..just in case he's starting to waffle..

People have always seemed to know how to press President Bushs Buttons..Yank his chain..
Piss him off..

you know..The Irrational Response to Provocation..

I doubt if any Cease Fires or so called Peace deals will be made..until after President Bush sends the Next 100 Billion US TAXPAYER Dollars..

How much of that will be in Brief Cases full of Cash..To be Passed out ??..You Know...DEAL or NO DEAL....stuff..Cartel Style..

Negotiations....

Peace for Payola....

Some Politicians seem to Know How to Play that game....since several have been Indicted.. 


I wonder how far into the Libby trisl we get before the Impeachment Process begans..??
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Steve J.
EMAIL: radamisto99@yahoo.com
IP: 68.107.211.166
URL: http://radamisto.blogspot.com
DATE: 01/20/2007 11:49:59 PM
"We may not like it but there is no clean exit for us"

Yup and the sooner the wingnuts understand this, the better for all of us.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Joseph
EMAIL: joseph_b26@yahoo.com
IP: 75.31.194.82
URL: http://readingitreal.blogspot.com/
DATE: 01/21/2007 12:19:53 AM
The Warsaw example of insurgency was lacking the fact that Iraq is not cut off from the rest of the world. In WWII, Poland was. This explains why Iraq has a steady flow of new outraged Muslims who have lost a relative to American technology.

There is a sad fact associated with this war: Iraq is being used to test US military technologies and strategies. The Iraqi war films are already showing up on the History channel and Military channel.

We have one policy that would explain a lot of our negative relationship problems with Iraq:  Collateral Damage. Yes, we have dehumanized the very people we claim to be saving. We don't even call them human beings anymore.

Fact: We are not supposed to be in Iraq killing people. Explain, and make it good, why George Bush is not the same murderer he claimed Saddam Hussein is. No WMDs, no reason to be doing what we are doing in Iraq. That is a logical train of thought.

Maybe we can trade some of this destructive technology away for a ton of honesty and maturity as a nation, whose growth includes compassion for all human beings outside of our own country.

In my life time, I have scene some truths come to light through time. Revelations concerning the Vietnam War continue to surface everyday. We have got to learn in real time. Nobody wants another Vietnam.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: boilerman10
EMAIL: bigguy13057@yahoo.com
IP: 74.71.23.213
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 01:54:14 AM
Larry,

Thank you for your analysis, but one thing stands out to me.

We have damn little reliable intelligence about Iraq, Sadr, or the inner workings of either the Sunni or Shia guerrilla groups.  we are essentially pissing in the dark and hoping to hit the bowl in the right place here.

Fighting Sadr or his group will, contrary to bg's posting, above will inflame a sizable portion of the Iraqi population.  Sadr is probably not immune to truce with his adversaries in order to join together to stymie the American search, which is using troops as policemen again, not a good use of Infantry and Marines.  

Another poster asked about mercenaries.  Well, when was the last time any westerner was safe or able to infiltrate into Iraqi daily life for intel or fighting purposes?  You can send mercs in numbers that stretch from Baghdad to Kars, Armenia and you will still accomplish one thing....get a whole lot of them killed and maimed.  Without good intel even mercs are useless.

Bush is flying blind here, and there is little reason to think he has any better, or more accurate intel than those of us who read Dahr Jamail and who use A'sad over at Angry Arab as a guide to sources of news away from the commercial US bulk media.

Larry, we are royally screwed here.  The ideologues and half-baked "Likudniks" that populate the neo-con cabal, have placed us in a terrible position I haven't seen since Nixon's plan to escalate into Cambodia.

What will happen?  A lot of body bags will be filled, that's what, with more bloodshed and less resolution.  That's dying for nothing.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: raides
EMAIL: raides@gmail.com
IP: 64.254.225.194
URL: http://www.raides.org
DATE: 01/21/2007 05:21:16 AM
Option #5

Strengthen the training of Iraqi soldiers with an organized six month boot-camp, allowing the Iraq government to enforce their own policies and the U.S. to withdraw more troops.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: bg
EMAIL: bg_iz@yahoo.com
IP: 24.159.63.165
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 10:03:44 AM
boilerman,

I would have to disagree with you in respect to intelligence about Sadr's group. While the many Sunni organizations often baffle us, the Sadr's political party and militia are very well documented.  We know who does what and most of the time where they are, but in the past, we were never allowed to touch them. (in the interview posted above, Sadr is paranoid of "spies" in his organization, that is because of the success of US/Iraqi forces in hunting down his senior leaders due to good intel).

Sadr is not immune to joining others, however, no one will join him. Sadr tried to come to the aid of Sunni groups in 2004, he tried to link up with Zarqawi, they all turned him away.  He has so isolated himself politically, no one will come to his aid.  I think enough Iraqis see him as a marked man now that even Maliki is not protecting him.

Another positive, and very unexpected indicator today, the Sadr parliament members are returning to work immediately.  Wow, I didn't see that coming.  That is the exact opposite response one might expect if we though that the Mahdi Militia was going to rise up.  An uprising is still a very plausible course of action, but I still argue that it is not likely.

But I do agree with your statement that Bush is flying blind, or perhaps we should say, he is blinded with faith.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Daryl 
EMAIL: dkcampbellac@gmail.com
IP: 68.34.1.238
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 10:45:37 AM
"Some cooperate with each other but most do not."

Why do I get the feeling that Bush is about to dramatically change the percentage of those who don't cooperate to new best friends? 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 11:49:51 AM
Larry writes: "A military course of action to identify and root out insurgent groups will be accompanied by significant Iraqi civilian casualties.  Troops going house to house trying to maneuver in narrow streets will be ripe targets for snipers, ambushes, and concealed explosives.  As we roust civilians from their beds we will provoke more Iraqi opposition to the U.S. presence in Iraq and will produce more support and recruits for the various insurgent forces.  And that serves what U.S. policy objective?"

Apparently the policy objective is to determine just how many nails can be driven into Irony's coffin: Bush has proclaimed that today (Sunday 20 Jan) is "National Sanctity of Human Life Day."

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 11:59:00 AM
Regrettably, my comments left the impression that I believe Sunday is the 20th. I do not. I believe firmly that Sunday is the 21st of January. I support our calendar and I firmly believe that our calendar requires vigorous representation.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 01:51:08 PM
I don't think we have any idea what will happen if we attack Sadr. The fact that the Sunni insurgency and the ultra-schismatic Sunni al-Qaeda brushed off Sadr's support means nothing. We're already fighting them. Who cares if they support Badr or not?

What about the Badr Brigade? What about the rest of Shiite Iraq? What about the Iraqi government? What if al Maliki, a doomed man if ever I saw one, decides to have his "Saddam moment" and go out a hero and a martyr?

Bush's disease is essentially that of the compulsive gambler. To fold and walk away makes him a loser, and he has been a loser at virtually everything he's done in life. As long as he can roll the dice, he's not a loser. Sadly, I think that is the military strategy in Iraq -- to keep trying anything, anything at all, so Bush doesn't have to admit he's a loser.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 01:52:55 PM
Oh, one other thing:

Could someone explain to me how attacking Sadr helps? He supports the government. He's part of the government, or was until he suspended cooperation recently. He just wants the US to leave Iraq.

Oh. I answered my own question. Never mind.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.199
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 05:27:20 PM
Wish you would change that verify thing, us old half blind vets can't get heard half the time.

OT but looks like some progress may be made against the OSP;

<a href="http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16234.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16234.htm</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 05:52:53 PM
shargash writes: "Bush's disease is essentially that of the compulsive gambler. To fold and walk away makes him a loser, and he has been a loser at virtually everything he's done in life. As long as he can roll the dice, he's not a loser."

Nailed it, shargash. I doubt we'll ever see Bush's dilemma more succintly defined.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jang
EMAIL: jangleeson@sympatico.ca
IP: 70.53.66.220
URL: 
DATE: 01/21/2007 05:58:59 PM
Getalife:  Thank you for the link.  Explains it all. They're laughing at all of us.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: COLORADO BOB
EMAIL: coloradobob1@mac.com
IP: 72.26.146.105
URL: http://colorado-bob.blogspot.com/
DATE: 01/21/2007 11:10:15 PM
Larry - Sue

The Times is reporting that the attack at Karbala was done by Iraqi's in American uniforms. They gained access in 7 Big SUVs ..complete with the signs on the back that tell people to stay back.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Patrick henry
EMAIL: jhtice@hotmail.com
IP: 71.212.111.128
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 12:30:23 AM
I thought they got past a check point..Whose..? ours or Iraqi..? 

we should have set up our own Checkpoint..security..

I thought this was some kind of higher level meeting..for Intel..

Info says they were
Dressed in American uniforms..meaning they passed as americans..How..??

Did they show ID..speak fluid english..??

Who says they were Iraqi..??

did they take any casualitys to ID..?

Could insurgants have six 
Correct SUVS..with all the markings..??

some kind of covert Op..or insurgent..??

Who ever did it had the Intel..inside info..and all the tools they needed..

How..?? Who sent/assisted them..?

 were the SUVS.. from a government motor pool..or some "Contract" Group..??

where was the chopper/air cover for this type of meeting in Hostile territory....??

Chopper gunship could have chased down SUVS..killed em..got some prisoners..

Where did the SUVS go..which way..??

what was the Intent of the attackers..besides killing americans..??

Warning..?? Provocation..?

Timing a factor..??

President Bushs reaction..?

I have deep concerns there are going to be more and more Traps..and Operations like this against Americans..

Does this mean the "Zone" is Vunerable..??

Who can we Trust..there..??

The anger against the American smust be growing daily..

Do they plan on Heavy resistence..with the Intengt of Causing high american casualitys..and putting a further drain on Our army..marine corp and support Equipment..??

Who is suppose to replace them..?

how many of our  National Guard Troop can bush call up..?? Until they are all gone..??

Whats the real Bottom Line for iraq..If we Leave now..or five years from Now..??

Who is gonna Step in when we are gone..??

Whats the realisitic relationship between Iran and Iraq evetually going to be..?? 

Can the iraqi government tell us ALL to go..any time they want..??

immediate Withdrawl..

Leaving all Ground assets..bases..Stuctures..etc..just like in Nam..??

If President Bush tells us his PLAN worked..because of some kind of negotiated Peace deal ..or we kill enough Iraqis..eventually..

How long is That going to LAST..??

And Whose gonna Pay the bill..??

someone tell me what the future MIRACLE OUTCOME is going to be..for President Bush and the United states..

or the Iraqi People..

I don't see it..




-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Phillip
EMAIL: philliparmstrong@rogers.com
IP: 199.198.254.100
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 02:04:45 PM
Listening to comments from the Shia-led government on the weekend, they are saying that if only the U.S. properly equipped the army and police force in the past or going forward then there would not be level of violence in the country and problems with security. 

What I really think they are saying is if you equip the Shia, then we would have or will defeat the Sunni.

So when the Bush administration talks about "stand up and we stand down" or training for the Iraqi police or army, what they are really saying, intentionally or not, that we will arm the Shia so they can take care of business, given the Shia's dominance of the government and of the security forces.

I think what is clear is that the Iraqi Prime Minister is just looking out for his own (where he came from and his power base) which is the Shia. It seems pretty clear to me that the Iraqi government/Shia just want to completely takeover Baghdad and ultimately the entire country. It will just be surpression of the Shia over the Sunni, and not much of a democracy. That is really what the Prime Minister and Iraqi government are working toward. 

Great the U.S. government has ultimately set up and is funding a Shia government with links to Iran that will surpress the Sunni minority. No wonder Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia don't want the U.S. to leave. Is this what the Bush administration bargained for when they unleashed those first Tomahawks? Is this what your sons and daughters are fighter for? Is the U.S. any more safe under this scenario?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 203.27.155.62
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 07:00:41 AM
Larry

You have set the options perfectly, if some were convinced that America had a vested interest in peace and that things were done transparrently.

Here's my options for your consideration.

1 We announce to the media (incessantly) that we are pulling out of Iraq and take 26 years to do so.

2 We claim we are fighting the Sunni or Shia, while actually fighting both sides, diplomatically wooing the current Iraqi Administration, Iran, Saudi and other Arab nations. Any irregularities could be blamed on "lone guns".

3 We sorta come clean to people and say, this war was actually about oil and blame Bush in the best possible taste. So now we are here, we are not going to take any sides, we're going to behave like a referee. Anyone who is naughty gets spanked, regardless of their affiliation. Other than that we are going to do a "Clinton" and get everyone stoned on the peace pipe.

Those are the three options. I cannot think of any more.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: erikvilius.blogspot.com
EMAIL: erikvilius@yahoo.com
IP: 68.21.97.58
URL: 
DATE: 01/26/2007 07:48:29 PM
Bush's three ring circus is America's road to hell. Will Warner, Hagel, or Lugar do what is necessary and have the balls to stand this guy down ?
-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: John Warner Introduces Anti-"Surge" Bill
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/22/2007 12:44:23 PM
-----
BODY:
By SusanUnPC ... From <em><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/22/warner-iraq-resolution/">Think Progress</a></em>:

<blockquote>BREAKING: Sen. John Warner To Introduce Resolution Opposing Iraq Escalation
Sen. John Warner (R-VA) will introduce a resolution today “making clear that he does not support the President on increasing the troop levels in Iraq” and calling escalation “a mistake,” CNN’s Dana Bash reports. Warner’s resolution will be cosponsored by Sens. Susan Collins (R-ME) and Ben Nelson (D-NE).

Warner, the former Armed Services Committee chairman, is a “very influential voice when it comes to military matters,” Bash reports, and until this fall had been “whole-heartedly behind the president and the war.” His new resolution “certainly…is not going to sit well with the White House.” <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/22/warner-iraq-resolution/">Watch it</a>.</blockquote>

I wonder if this is the "compromise" measure that, over the weekend, pundits predicted that Warner would introduce ... i.e., a softer, gentler opposition than that introduced by Senators Hagel, Biden, Kennedy, et al. Otherwise why would he introduce his own?
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
I hope Warner's resolution has SOME bite to it. All the measures are "symbolic," but should be firm in their language and meaning. Perhaps, given Warner's great influence and standing, more and more Republicans will sign on, and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell's threatened filibuster of the earlier-introduced resolutions will be bypassed.

God knows it's needed.  U.S. headlines say 85 were killed in Baghdad market bombings today, but BBC World Service just reported that the number has risen to 100, with hundreds more injured.  BBC also reported that the areas bombed were in the most impoverished neighborhoods where "junk" electronics are sold. 

Then there were the 25 deaths of U.S. soldiers over the weekend.
-----
EXCERPT:

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KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 204.117.117.26
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 01:10:51 PM
Mr. Warner might consider asking McCain for his kneepads.

A republican senator puts forth a washed out version of what a bipartisan group before him.  Does this mean he doesn't agree with what has all ready been put forth?  Is he mad because he wasn't consulted?

That,  signifies someone who is doing the bidding of his master dick.   But,  Warner is retiring,  so his concern is about his legacy first.   It seems we have quite a few that care only about that right now
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 192.245.246.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 01:16:21 PM
I have to agree with Oldtree. The only thing I want to see is Congress, regardless of party, grow a pair as institution, stand up the to the President, and say in one collective voice, "Oh hell no!"
And then pass the legislation that says "Oh hell no!" so that Bush's only recourse is to cry like a little baby to the networks, "Oh, whaaaa, they so mean over there, they say no, and I wannnaaaawwwwhaaaa!"
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/22/2007 01:58:30 PM
I love your comments, OldTree and Sheerahkahn.

"Washed out" version is right.

These longtime senators sometimes display a lack of b___s.  

Sen. Warner, sign on with Hagel and Biden, and give Bush hell.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/22/2007 02:03:38 PM
Btw, this just came in from Keith Olbermann's newsletter so presumably he will be on this story tonight:

Two leading Senate Democrats sought to build support Sunday for a bipartisan resolution opposing President Bush's war strategy in Iraq, cautioning that division over whether the measure goes far enough could spell defeat.  "The worst thing we can do is to vote on something which is critical of the current policy and lose it," said Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "The public doesn't support his policy; a majority of the Congress doesn't support his policy." <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/21/AR2007012100335.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/21/AR2007012100335.html</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 03:10:56 PM
Opposition is mounting and it's about time.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/22/2007 03:12:41 PM
Warner's on TV live - MSNBC   Nothing on C-Span.

I most want to hear reporters' Qs for him.  But, of course, MSNBC just cut away.  Hopefully, later on, C-Span will play Warner's full comments + questions.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: J
EMAIL: fam24578@yahoo.com
IP: 69.8.9.84
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 03:43:11 PM
Larry,

this is the same sen. warner that was the author of the infamous military commissions act.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: J
EMAIL: fam24578@yahoo.com
IP: 69.8.9.84
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 03:47:49 PM
Susan,

in addition to 'anti-surge' or  'surge-proof' legislation/laws, congress also needs to introduct anti-iran/syria war legislation.  both bush and the off-kelter israeli politicos are hell bent on turing the mideast into a set of nuclear fireballs.

the only way to prevent a war on syria/iran is for the  impeachment of both bush and  cheney.  the sooner the better, as the clock is ticking, and the israelis tried to start wwwii earlier  this month but were turned back by u.s fighters.  it is not known how much longer they can be kept at bay without out shooting the israelis out of the sky, every one that pokes their jet cockpit into the air.  and i do mean 'every one'.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/22/2007 06:35:44 PM
Yup.  It's a soft proposal.  Josh Marshall got the text and compares it:

"You can see the two resolutions here and here in our TPM Document Collection. For more on this unsightly burlesque, click here."

<a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012064.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/012064.php</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 203.27.155.62
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 07:11:32 AM
Susan

I very.....very rarely watch the news (as many of you may have noticed - sic). But there appears to be "yet another" mini revolt happening in the Republican camp.

Usual pitch. "We trusted the President, but....."

BLAME BUSH has a ring to it, eh!

Oh for a crsytal ball...:)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 04:57:45 PM
The anti-surge bills only limit ground troops or guards/reserves...

do they limit Navy, Air Force spikes?

That's what is needed for the next target.

Do they allow for spikes or a troop surge in other areas?

Bush can use his war powers toward Iran/Afghanistan in this way, to end run the Iraq provisions.

Don't put it past the whole of Congress going semantic and stopping a literal surge in Iraq. Whilst allowing the same spike for other covert actions, psyops, or theatres of deployment.

Read the fine print.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.110.251
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 08:38:53 AM
Are you suggesting that congress is setting up a "slam dunk" on Iran, Mr M?

Very preceptive, if that is right. I've been saying that the old guard put Bush there, so he must be there for a reason, Democrat-ic or otherwise.
-----


--------
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Webb: Born Fighting PAC + SOTU Response
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/22/2007 01:47:57 PM
-----
BODY:
By SusanUnPC ... I just got an e-mail from Jim Webb (presumably because I was on his Senate campaign mailing list) inviting me to join his "<a href="http://www.bornfighting.com/">Born Fighting PAC</a>," where <a href="http://www.bornfighting.com/">you can sign up</a>. "As the Chair of the Born Fighting PAC, I will be guided by three primary goals: reorienting our national security posture, bringing fairness back to our economic system, and developing greater accountability in government," Webb writes.

About his SOTU response tomorrow night:

<blockquote>Now that the American people have placed Democrats in control of both the House and the Senate, it is time for us to lead on the critical issues facing our nation -- Iraq and economic fairness chief among them -- and we will.

<strong>You'll be able to see this on full display Tuesday night when I will deliver the Democratic response to President Bush's State of the Union address.</strong> Please stay tuned following the President's speech to hear my views, and I hope you'll agree that we will be focused hard on the true interests of the American people.</blockquote>
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
By the way, it was Webb, not I, who bold-faced that sentence above that begins with "<strong>You'll be able to see this on full display Tuesday night</strong> ..."  

That phrase, "on full display."  Give him hell, Jim.  I can't wait.

The Born Fighting PAC site has a tab for "Candidates," which <a href="http://www.bornfighting.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=4&Itemid=12">announces</a>:

<blockquote>Coming Soon, we will profile a number of candidates that we are supporting. Please check back often.</blockquote>

<a href="http://www.bornfighting.com/">Jim's Corner</a> says:

<blockquote>When I saw the president's State of the Union speech last year, I was not even a candidate for the Democratic nomination in Virginia. Now, thanks to people like you, I'm one of dozens of new Democratic Senators, Congressmen and Governors taking office. With your help, Born Fighting PAC will make this another historic year for Democrats.</blockquote>

Webb can be a force for bringing forth more candidates like himself.  

If he has <a href="http://www.bornfighting.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=4&Itemid=12#">PAC money</a> to hand out, he'll be far more effective. 
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 02:58:57 PM
There's no way in hell I'm going to listen to Bush's SOTU. Reading it later is far preferable, especially if it's annotated by lefties. :-) It will be a pleasure to hear Webb's response, however.

Guess what: Senator Biden asked Faux News to name a single time Cheney has been right about anything?

<a href="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/22/biden-name-one-single-time-cheneys-been-correct/" rel="nofollow">http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/01/22/biden-name-one-single-time-cheneys-been-correct/</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/22/2007 03:11:11 PM
It's excruciating, Leslie. For his surge speech, I went with KUOW.org's decision to air the BBC World version, and that helped a little.  

Btw, just glanced over at the teevee, which is on mute, and noticed that MSNBC is promo'ing Keith and Tweety as co-hosts for tomorrow night's analyses. I'll for sure want to hear Keith's comments.  And, after that surge speech, Joe Scarborough had a great roster of guests -- Pat Buchanan, Lawrence O'Donnell, etc. -- who made for great conversation.  And Scarborough was very hard on Bush, as was his first guest, Joe Klein (a shocker).
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/22/2007 03:18:32 PM
Oh for the love of god.  MSNBC has breaking news that "documents seized in Iraq reveal insurgent plans for attack in U.S."  Jim M...*. is reporting from the Pentagon.

As they always say, timing is everything.

:::::::::::::::::

* ( I like him -- he's probably just reporting what Pentagon PR people told him. Wish I could remember how to spell his last name.)

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 03:49:07 PM
Guess I wasn't so off-base about suggesting Muqtada al-Sadr wanted to attack Detroit after all. LOL. Do you think it's possible Saddam hid his WMD in Detroit too?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 69.2.120.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 03:53:37 PM
Oh, and Muqtada is going to attack right before Bush's speech too!!? 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 204.117.117.26
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 04:45:38 PM
I want to see how the Iraqi insurgents are going to get out of Iraq,  into a country that has flights out,  get to the US and do what the Saudi's did in 2001.   This should be some pretty good theater, right?
   Nope,  you have to have really good connections to get the actions of Saudi nationals turned into a war in Afghanistan (defunct oil pipeline deal), and then a war in Iraq (oil in ground) and a subsequent one with Iran,  (also in ground).

sounds a bit odd when you hear the Saudi's say they are going to put their troops in Iraq?    am I being overly suspicious here?   

and if Biden and Levin both take a fox to task and the same fox can't name one thing about cheney's statements that have ever been correct,  then can their really be any doubt that the lies simply add up to the truth about what they are doing?
it's all oil.   if you examine every thing said,  it only hides this fact from less prying eyes

re construct this nightmare and the players become quite obvious
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 04:47:22 PM
I'm far more interested in buchanan's analysis than the actual speech.

<a href="http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2007/01/ateaseoutfront.gif" rel="nofollow">http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2007/01/ateaseoutfront.gif</a>

^"jobs americans just don't want to do"  like build pyramids in the desert for King Bushonkomen
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ManagedChaos
EMAIL: managedchaos@nwo.mil
IP: 72.5.142.135
URL: 
DATE: 01/22/2007 07:00:12 PM
I'm all for Jim Webb, but I never understand how they can come up with a response to a speech that hasn't taken place yet?  Does Jim Webb get an advanced copy of the SOTU?  How can one effectively counter a speech they haven't yet heard?  Seriously.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: TruthProbe
EMAIL: proebstingt@yahoo.com
IP: 70.237.190.192
URL: http://www.truthprobe.com
DATE: 01/22/2007 08:36:36 PM
Right on, Jim!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: c*mama
EMAIL: chrisanthemama@aol.com
IP: 205.188.117.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 01:45:12 AM
Managed Chaos:  it'll be like every other Bush SOTU, only with more ponies this time.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/23/2007 09:37:48 AM
ManagedChaos has a good point ... just guessing the Dems go by press reports and maybe the WH gives them at least an outline? (The WH is always so cooperative and bipartisan.)

Btw, MSNBC just said that Webb's son (a Marine in Anbar) has had his tour extended two to three months.  Doubtless, Webb won't play that up.  (I'd be going out of my gourd if that were my son.)
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/23/2007 09:45:03 AM
c*mama must read Atrios.  Atrios is always talking about ponies.

OT: Speaking of which, I could not stop giggling the other day when I read a post at Atrios's blog about Barack Obama going through terrorist training between the ages of 6 and 8.  (So reported Faux Nothing Network ... last night, Keith Olbermann said he can't call it Fox News anymore because it's not a news channel.)

That post is in the archives so I copied it for you:

"Idiocracy"

"Today, the network that brought you falafelatio, five-to-the-noggin, and pre-pubescents prefering violent abduction to algebra had its morning zoo crew speculating that Barack Obama secretly attended an Islamic Terrorism Training Center between the ages of 6 and 8.

"No slur too outrageous for FoxNews."

LINK:
<a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_14_atrios_archive.html#116923257050077630" rel="nofollow">http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_14_atrios_archive.html#116923257050077630</a>

-- I love the dig at Bill O'Reilly's disgusting comments about the abducted 14-year-old in Missouri.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcglobal.net
IP: 70.90.138.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 10:35:21 AM
Thanks for the head's up, Susan. Also, Wes Clark will be on Hannity & Colmes , Tuesday, 1/23/07 after the State of the Union address in the 11PM EST/ 10PM CST hour




-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 192.245.246.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 05:45:58 PM
"I'm all for Jim Webb, but I never understand how they can come up with a response to a speech that hasn't taken place yet? Does Jim Webb get an advanced copy of the SOTU? How can one effectively counter a speech they haven't yet heard? Seriously."

The SOTU speech has been written already, and the President is only rehearsing the words with a speech coach. A political speech coach, that is. The primary thing is that the handlers want their boytoy to hit the right inflections at the right time to add weight. 
Also, it should be noted that Bush will be straddling the fence too: Keeping the 28% faithful, faithful, and trying to assuage the fears of the other 72% that he isn't Dr. Strangelove.
So, with the speech in prep mode, the Democrats will have their "general" response ready to the points in the speech, but the final draft will be hastily written in just in case Bush throws in a couple of surprises.
Overall, it's all been predetermined about a week ago, all thats left is the "Performance."
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/23/2007 06:17:45 PM
Only for the wonky -- but DO check out the main topics listed:

"Initiative Fact Sheet Roster from White House on Bush State of the Union Address"

"Just in from the White House media team: ..."

From Steve Clemons:
<a href="http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001896.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001896.php</a>
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AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: "MOMMY! Iran Did TOO Do It!"
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/23/2007 11:14:54 AM
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BODY:
Barbara Bush did a bang-up job with her eldest who always seems to find somebody or some country to blame. I have to wonder if little bro Jeb felt like Iran when he was a kid. ("Mommy! Jeb put antitank mines in my toy truck! Did TOO!") From <em><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/23/thinkfast-january-23-2007/">Think Progress</a></em>:

<blockquote>“Evidence of Iranian involvement in Iraq’s troubles is limited. U.S. troops have found mortars and antitank mines with Iranian markings dated 2006,” the Los Angeles Times reports. “But there has been little sign of more advanced weaponry crossing the border, and <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iraniraq23jan23,0,4316481.story?coll=la-home-headlines">no Iranian agents have been found</a>.”</blockquote>

Noting how the media <a href="http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/01/investigating-rather-than-reciting.html">have responsibly disproved</a> Faux Nothing News's <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/22/AR2007012201322.html">wild, false accusations</a> that Barack Obama attended a madrassa as a child -- with <a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_01_14_atrios_archive.html#116923257050077630">Fox's "morning zoo crew speculating</a> that Barack Obama secretly attended an Islamic Terrorism Training Center between the ages of 6 and 8" -- and that Hillary Clinton's campaign spread that news (also false), Glenn Greenwald <a href="http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/01/investigating-rather-than-reciting.html">is encouraged</a> that the media are "beginning to engage in a similar exercise concerning the President's war-pushing accusations towards Iran."
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<blockquote>In his <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/01/20070110-7.html">"surge" speech</a> two weeks ago, the President claimed that "Iran is providing material support for attacks on American troops." As a result, he vowed: "We will disrupt the attacks on our forces. We'll interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria. And we will seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq." By all accounts, he intends to repeat that accusation and those threats against Iran in his State of the Union speech.

If this were 2003, every front page headline and lead-in to every television news programs would declare: "Iran responsible for attacks on U.S. troops." The more conscientious ones might add the phrase ", the President reveals." But all of the stories would contain one paragraph after the next asserting the administration's claims about Iran as fact, and would include no investigation of those claims or any real contrary assertions. That was government propaganda masquerading as "independent reporting" -- entire stories, day after day, published as fact based on nothing other than the claims of the government ("Bush officials said"; "senior administration officials today disclosed", etc. etc.).

But, at least in some notable places, the opposite is occurring with Bush's provocative Iran claims. Back in October, <em>The Washington Post </em>published an <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/03/AR2006100301577.html">excellent article</a> by Ellen Knickmeyer -- headlined: <em>British Find No Evidence of Arms Traffic from Iran</em> -- which detailed the fact that the British military in Southern Iraq, where one would expect to find evidence of Iranian arms traffic if it actually existed in any substantial form, has found nothing of the sort:<blockquote>

Since late August, British commandos in the deserts of far southeastern Iraq have been testing one of the most serious charges leveled by the United States against Iran: that Iran is secretly supplying weapons, parts, funding and training for attacks on U.S.-led forces in Iraq. . . . . There's just one thing.

<strong>"I suspect there's nothing out there,"</strong> the commander, Lt. Col. David Labouchere, said last month, speaking at an overnight camp near the border. "And I intend to prove it."

Other senior British military leaders spoke as explicitly in interviews over the previous two months. Britain, whose forces have had responsibility for security in southeastern Iraq since the war began,<strong> has found nothing to support the Americans' contention that Iran is providing weapons and training in Iraq, </strong>several senior military officials said.

"I have not myself seen any evidence -- <strong>and I don't think any evidence exists</strong> -- of government-supported or instigated" armed support on Iran's part in Iraq, British Defense Secretary Des Browne said in an interview in Baghdad in late August.</blockquote>

Today, The<em> LA Times</em> published a similar <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iraniraq23jan23,0,4316481.story?coll=la-home-headlines">article</a> -- headlined: <em>Scant Evidence Found of Iran-Iraq Arms Link. </em>Detailing the (largely futile) efforts to find evidence of Iranian arms shipments in the Southern border province of Diyala (a highly likely locale for such activity, if it existed), the <em>Times </em>reports that while the U.S. military claims to have found some Iranian mortars and antitank mines in Iraq, "there has been little sign of more advanced weaponry crossing the border, and no Iranian agents have been found." The article added:

<blockquote>For all the aggressive rhetoric, however, the Bush administration has provided scant evidence to support these claims. Nor have reporters traveling with U.S. troops seen extensive signs of Iranian involvement. During a recent sweep through a stronghold of Sunni insurgents here, a single Iranian machine gun turned up among dozens of arms caches U.S. troops uncovered. British officials have similarly accused Iran of meddling in Iraqi affairs, but say they have not found Iranian-made weapons in areas they patrol.

The lack of publicly disclosed evidence has led to questions about whether the administration is overstating its case.</blockquote>

And, to the extent there <em>is</em> any evidence of Iranian involvement in Iraq, it is to aid Shiite factions (such as The Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution) which "are <strong>not</strong> those that have led attacks against U.S. forces. Instead, they are nominal U.S. allies."<br /><br />The gradual revelation of the total lack of any credible evidence to support the Bush administration's claim that Iran is all but fueling a war on the U.S. inside Iraq coincides with increasingly absolutist claims by Bush officials that Iran is guilty of such acts. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/washington/20intel.html?bl&ex=1169442000&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;en=e20dea1391f45b4a&amp;ei=5087%0A">Here</a> is what CIA Director Michael Hayden said at a recent Congressional hearing:<blockquote>

I've come to a much darker interpretation of Iranian actions in the past 12 to 18 months . . . There is a <strong>clear line of evidence</strong> that points out the Iranians want to punish the United States, hurt the United States in Iraq, tie down the United States in Iraq.</blockquote>

But when Bush officials claim they have "evidence" of Iran's violent behavior towards the U.S. in Iraq, what they mean by "evidence" is the same kind of "evidence" on which the pre-war Iraq claims of WMDs and Iraq-Al Qaeda alliances were based: namely, wild, unverified claims from Chalabi-like, AEI-touted, pro-Iran-war "sources" -- the kind who rant recklessly to Michael Ledeen and other warmonger pundits.

As Justin Raimondo <a href="http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10368">pointed out</a>, there is a critical difference between "intelligence" and "evidence." In the Bush world, "intelligence" includes "anything said by 'sources' no matter their credibility or agenda," and they then characterize those unverified claims as "evidence" (as in: "There is a clear line of evidence that points out the Iranians want to punish the United States, hurt the United States in Iraq").

But as was true for the administration's pre-war Iraq claims, they have "intelligence" but no "evidence" (despite extensive searching) to support what they hope are their pre-war accusations against Iran. And no rational person -- and, apparently, even fewer journalists this time around -- are going to accept Bush accusations towards Iran without "evidence."

While it is certainly encouraging to see national media outlets subjecting Bush claims to genuine scrutiny, that alone is not going to defuse the grave threat posed by the President's clear intent to confront Iran one way or the other. It is highly doubtful that the administration believes it can roll out some grand marketing campaign for a new war against Iran similar to the one it unleashed for Iraq. That is not what it is attempting here.

Instead, the administration wants to take a more circuitous route to creating a conflict with Iran -- by provoking the Iranians, contriving a pretext for an attack, fostering war-generating miscalculation, etc. ... (<a href="http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/01/investigating-rather-than-reciting.html">Read all</a>.)</blockquote>

"Mommy!  Jeb hit me FIRST!  Did TOO!"

Barack Obama <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/19/fox-obama-madrassa/">enjoyed a far more vista-opening childhood</a>, but then it appears that even as a child his eyes were more open to differences and his spheres of influence far wider:

<blockquote>As a child, Obama spent four years in Indonesia with his step-father, a non-practicing Muslim, and his mother. Between ages 6 and 8, Obama attended a local Muslim school in Jakarta; after that, he was enrolled in a Roman Catholic school. In his book <em>Dreams Of My Father</em> (p.142), Obama writes:

<blockquote>In Indonesia, I’d spent 2 years at a Muslim school, 2 years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I’d pretend to close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended.</blockquote>

In his more recent book, <em>The Audacity of Hope</em>, Obama writes (p.274), “Without the money to go to the international school that most expatriate children attended, I went to local Indonesian schools and ran the streets with the children of farmers, servants, tailors, and clerks.”</blockquote>

But our president evidently was raised with the same narrow, Bad Guys vs. Good Guys world view as <em>Fox & Friends</em> host Steve Doocy and anchor Gretchen Carlson, as were some of the callers to the show <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/19/fox-obama-madrassa/">(transcript</a>):

<blockquote>DOOCY: Why didn’t anybody ever mention that that man right there was raised — spent the first decade of his life, raised by his Muslim father — as a Muslim and was educated in a madrassa?

[snip]

DOOCY: We should also point out that Barack Obama’s father is the one who gave him the middle name of Hussein. And the thing about the madrassa, and you know, let’s just be honest about this, in the last number of years, madrassas have been, we’ve learned a lot about them, financed by Saudis, they teach this Wahhabism which pretty much hates us. The big question is was that on the curriculum back then? Probably not, but it was a madrassa and the big question is whether or not any of these revelations about the fact that he was a Muslim — right now I understand he does go to the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, although not a regular parishioner — but raised as a Muslim, went to a madrassa.

[snip]

CALLER: I think a Muslim would be fine in the presidency, better than Hillary. At least you know what the Muslims are up to. [Laughter]

CARLSON: We want to be clear, too, that this isn’t all Muslims, of course, we would only be concerned about the kind that want to blow us up.</blockquote>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/23/2007 11:52:12 AM
FYI, Petraeus is before the Senate Armed Services Committee now.  On C-Span3.  <a href="http://www.c-span.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.c-span.org</a>

P.S.  I just heard that genius Sen. Jeff Sessions point out to Petraeus the efficacy of using prisons to control the violence.  Sessions told Petraeus that Iraqis, per capita, don't have nearly as many people in prison as does the U.S.  

We are indeed a beacon to the world.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: other lisa
EMAIL: redandexpert@yahoo.com
IP: 66.167.7.164
URL: http://papertigertail.blogspot.com
DATE: 01/23/2007 12:20:28 PM
Boy, if that headline doesn't say it all. My mom and I still laugh (in an appalled way) about Bush's yellowcake speech - the way he says "in Africa" is truly like a little kid making up a scary story.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shargash
EMAIL: us001363@mindspring.com
IP: 69.248.44.116
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 01:44:16 PM
"Iraqis, per capita, don't have nearly as many people in prison as does the U.S."

Nobody does. We have 4x the percapita incraceration rate of red China, ferchrissakes.

Bush's claims about Iran don't pass the smell test. The Iranians and the US are supporting the same side. Why would the Iranians interfere with the US? We advancing their agenda in Iraq far better than they could without us. Even if we start going after Shiites, we're only going after the the ones that want us to leave Iraq, and they are NOT the Shiites most closely allied to Iran.

He's lying through the teeth, again, to get us involved in yet another stupid war of agression against a country that does not threaten us. Honestly, there is no remedy short of impeachment for this kind of crap. 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 02:40:29 PM
Wasn't that phony story about how Iran kicked out 38 IAEA inspectors priceless? Along with the timed story about the al-Qaeda-in-Iraq plot to target the US, which is 6 months old? Or the timely arrest of 600 Sadrists right before Bush's SOTU? 

Doesn't it sound like someone's dropping [Bush at 28% per CBS] poll numbers could use a boost?

All three stories can be found here: <a href="http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_cactus_p_070123_don_t_you_love_the_s.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_cactus_p_070123_don_t_you_love_the_s.htm</a> 

CBS Poll <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Hours_before_State_of_Union_Bush_0123.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Hours_before_State_of_Union_Bush_0123.html</a>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 04:44:40 PM
somewhere along the line it became accepted wisdom that iran was the locus of terrorism but I've yet to see the proof.  It seems like they are just targeting a non client state for the crimes of our client states lke egypt and saudi
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 05:12:20 PM
The best I was aware of, southwest Iran was more Sunni leaning, central/midwest Iran Shi'ia.

Most of the insurgents are not government actors from Iran. They're the people were raised in the 'no man's land' of the Iran-Iraq war and have grudges to act out.

Not state sponsored, defectors. Just as likely to fight Tehran as they would Baghdad.


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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BrendaStewart
EMAIL: stormyweather1@hotmail.com
IP: 65.7.35.37
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 07:57:51 PM
If babs was like most moms, might she have said to both boys..it is time out boys and go to your rooms and think about what you both have done to each other as well to me as your mother to have to choose or not to choose between your stories.  I, as your mom, will see that you both are doing time out.  good luck babs...you are the instigator of such behavior in your boys...each of them are criminals.... does take a mom and dad to make their sons the way they are...This is a very dysfunctional family in many ways..and now look as adults the way they all behave.  not good....;o(
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AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
TITLE: Libby Lied About Cheney's Close Involvement
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: __default__
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/23/2007 01:26:03 PM
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BODY:
<a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/cheneyleakplamemsnbc1238jz_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href, '_blank', 'width=521,height=301,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,toolbar=no,directories=no,location=no,menubar=no,status=no,left=0,top=0'); return false"><img alt="Cheneyleakplamemsnbc1238jz_1" title="Cheneyleakplamemsnbc1238jz_1" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/cheneyleakplamemsnbc1238jz_1.jpg" width="400" height="231" border="0" vspace=6 /></a>

Marcy Wheeler aka Emptywheel -- author of <em>Anatomy of Deceit: How the Bush Administration Used the Media to Sell the Iraq War and Out a Spy</em>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Deceit-Bush-Administration-Media/dp/0979176107/sr=8-1/qid=1169576867/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-7103918-6158217?ie=UTF8&s=books"><img alt="097917610701_aa240_sclzzzzzzz_v47812545_" title="097917610701_aa240_sclzzzzzzz_v47812545_" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/097917610701_aa240_sclzzzzzzz_v47812545_.jpg" width="190" height="190" border="0" style="float: left; margin: 6px 5px 5px 6px;" /></a>
which <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Deceit-Bush-Administration-Media/dp/0979176107/sr=8-1/qid=1169576867/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-7103918-6158217?ie=UTF8&s=books">comes out at Amazon</a> on January 28 -- is live-blogging the opening statements: <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/23/libby-liveblog-fitzgeralds-opening-statement/">Patrick Fitzgerald's opening</a> and <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/01/23/libby-liveblog-wells-opening-statement-part-one/">the defense's opening</a>.  I just had trouble opening a page at <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/">FireDogLake</a>, which is comprehensively liveblogging every minute of the trial; if you have trouble too, keep <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/">trying</a>. (NOTE: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/">HuffingtonPost blog</a> is supposed to cross-post the FDL team's live blogging, but I can't find the posts there.) 

Below, the latest MSNBC story, "<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16770023/">Prosecutor: Libby 'wiped out' Cheney memo</a>," and then there are Byron York's mad scribblings on how Libby was the fall guy and was "sacrificed" to save Karl Rove's hide:


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<blockquote>WASHINGTON - Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald used his opening statement in the CIA leak trial Tuesday to allege that Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff lied about Cheney's early involvement in the disclosure of a spy’s identity.

Fitzgerald said Cheney told his chief of staff, “Scooter” Libby, in 2003 that the wife of Iraq critic and former ambassador Joseph Wilson worked for the CIA, and that Libby spread that information to reporters. When that information got out, it triggered a federal investigation.

“But when the FBI and grand jury asked about what the defendant did,” Fitzgerald said, “he made up a story.”

Fitzgerald alleged that Libby in September 2003 “wiped out” a Cheney note just before Libby's first FBI interview when he said he learned about Wilson and his wife, CIA operative Valerie Plame, from reporters, not the vice president.

It was not clear if the reference to wiped out was literal or figurative.

Libby is charged with perjury and obstruction. He told investigators he was surprised to learn the identify of Wilson’s wife from NBC News reporter Tim Russert. ...

Read all of "<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16770023/">Prosecutor: Libby 'wiped out' Cheney memo</a>."</blockquote>

<strong>NOTE:</strong> <em>ThinkProgress</em> has <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/23/cheney-libby-trial/">an excellent summary</a> of Fitzgerald's opening statement and his key points.

<a href="http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YTY5YmFjNzJhNGM1MDA2ZTEyYzljNzg3YzliY2MxZDY=">Byron York is going bananas</a>:

<blockquote><strong>LIBBY ATTACKS ROVE AND THE WHITE HOUSE</strong>

A dramatic split inside the Bush White House is coming to light ... defense lawyer Ted Wells is making an impassioned opening argument, and much of it is a hard-edged attack on Libby's former White House colleague Karl Rove.

"There will be some people at the White House — at the White House, not the office of the vice president — who you will learn may have pushed reporters to write stories about Mrs. Wilson," Wells said. "There may be people at the State Department who pushed reporters to write stories about Mrs. Wilson. But Scooter Libby did not push any reporter to write a story about Mrs. Wilson. Yet the man who pushed no one is sitting here in this courtroom."

Wells told the jury that the White House went all out to defend Rove against accusations he revealed Mrs. Wilson's identity, but did not protect Libby ... leading Libby to suspect that he was being singled out for blame in the matter. "[Mr. Libby] was concerned about being the scapegoat," Wells said. "Mr. Libby said to the vice president, 'People in the White House are trying to set me up, people in the White House are trying to make me a scapegoat.'  People in the White House are trying to protect a man named Karl Rove ..."

Wells said he will present a note written by Dick Cheney himself about a conversation with Libby. In part, the note says, "not going to protect one staffer and sacrifice the guy that was asked to stick his neck in the meat grinder because of the incompetence of others." [...] "[Rove] had to be protected…the person to be sacrificed was Scooter Libby."
</blockquote>
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 192.245.246.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 02:19:01 PM
I think it's time for Cheney to fall on his sword, and he better do it quick before Congress takes his sword and beheads him with it.
Cheney has pissed off way to many Senators and Representatives on both sides of the asiles to hope to have a snow balls throw in hells chance of surviving an impeachment proceeding.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 02:49:57 PM
The co-conspirators are eating each other alive.... :-)
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 192.245.246.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 03:53:22 PM
"The co-conspirators are eating each other alive.... :-)"

Well, yes, there is the entertaintment factor in all this, and personally, I'd enjoy it even more if peoples lives weren't at stake.
So, August, 1974 reduex?
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 04:42:46 PM
I can't abide by byron york, but he's at least not the religiously devoted kool aid drinker that alot of these think tanks guys are.

     Meanwhile, this trial is just silly.  it was armitage!
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BrendaStewart
EMAIL: stormyweather1@hotmail.com
IP: 65.7.35.37
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 07:40:54 PM
The  Fritz knows it was Armitage.. he has known it for a long time when Armatige said to him directly he was the man.  What this trial is about is lying to the FBI.  Libby did this and again lied or tried to lie to the grand jury.  
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: wmcq
EMAIL: gwens2@comcast.net
IP: 69.251.28.13
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 08:00:12 PM
Now, if Cheney goes (perhaps after a fake heart attack), Bush would get the chance to make Joe Lieberman his 'Unity' VP. Then Jodi Rell could install a republican to take back the Senate. Bush pardons Cheney, as a Ford like going away present, and an impeached Bush avoids conviction in the Senate 49 to 51.

Then, on the second day of the trial...
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 08:00:52 PM
Armitage was not a seniopr Department head.

The identities law applies towards autohrized persons.

Before that could be determined, Scooter obstructed justice and commited perjury.

It goes way past Libby and Rove. Armitage on his best day was on their level in real terms too.

A Senior Executive.

This is more than he said/she said of the fractured internals of the Bush WHite House.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 08:03:19 PM
Apology for the typos...

Since so many people said it, this easily goes to then NSA Condi Rice.

We are finding out it originated directly at the OVP.

Tonight, take a drink every time he says "six more months."


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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 08:08:57 PM
If they install a repub at CT it would not be in the spirit of voter intent, since the candidate was a 'independent Dem' on ballot. The top of the Lieberman party is a Lamont voter, would arguably be next in line along the lines of precedent in several previous cases. 
If they do, we have some persons out west, with Dem Govs. who can be sent home on their own ethics problems.

Joe's wifey is a lobbyist and can not take office as such or be appointed.

By the way we'd block Lieberman's swift transfer to VP for the four hundred grand he laundered while running against Ned Lamont.

You.Don't.Wanna.Go.There.

Have a nice warm cup 'o Joe and STFU, especially at the SOTU.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Other Tom
EMAIL: TMM89@san.rr.com
IP: 24.161.190.159
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 08:46:21 PM
WILSON CRONY ALLEGES INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR BY PLAME (AP)

Testifying under oath at the I. Lewis Libby trial today, Joseph Wilson's close friend Marc Grossman said on direct examination that he thought it was “inappropriate” that "one spouse would arrange another’s trip."  Grossman was referring to Valerie Plame's having arranged for her husband, Wilson, to take a junket to Africa in 2003.  Wilson has falsely denied that his wife had anything to do with his making the trip.

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
More bullshit from Other Tom.  Valerie did not arrange the trip.  Valerie did not select her husband.  Those decisions were made by Valerie's bosses.  Good Christ!  How insanely stupid can Tom be?

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 09:54:54 PM
Mother Tom - I hope you have a few hundred gallons of koolaid on hand to keep you medicated, cause' your gonna need it before this trial is over.  
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 11:08:21 PM
 'Grossman was referring to Valerie Plame's having arranged for her husband, Wilson, to take a junket to Africa in 2003.' 

Word for word Cheney statement from his handwritten notes, regurgitated on AP wire...
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcgobal.net
IP: 75.45.212.45
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 12:05:40 AM
This has got to be some kind of vindication for Joe Wilson and assist in the upcoming civil case. 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcgobal.net
IP: 75.45.212.45
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 12:06:02 AM
This has got to be some kind of vindication for Joe Wilson and assist in the upcoming civil case. 
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.110.251
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 08:59:49 AM
Hype and outcomes are the two words that immediately spring to mind, Susan.

Heck, everyone, even the janitor knows who's guilty, but will justice prevail? That is the question.

In these sort of affairs, invariable, everyone says..."well that was a jolly good shouting match, top hole fun, what now?"...."how about a round of golf?"

They could hardly imprison Prince Charles for treason....for sheesh sake! Best let sleeping dogs lie....even under oath. 2 years suspended just flies by, I'm told!


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 02:09:49 PM
honestly, I sacre myself with how much  iloathe neo cons and scooter libby in particular, but I, again, I ahve to come clean about this trial, i jsut don't get it. 

    Yes, its clear they wanted to go after wilson for the op ed.  I think he was well within his rights to write it.  but of course they are going to get dirt on him and try and make him look bad.  that's just politics.  wilson was proven right a hundrd different times, but they are going to fight back.  and neither libby nor cheney ORDERED armitage to give this to novak.  not from what i understand.

libby and cheney should face war crimes trilas, not this
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 03:30:48 PM
Sheerahkahn writes: "Well, yes, there is the entertaintment factor in all this, and personally, I'd enjoy it even more if peoples lives weren't at stake."
-------------------

You're right. We don't know how many people may have died, been tortured, or otherwise had their lives and the lives of their families and associates hurt by the CIA leak. I'm just glad the co-conspirators are now hurting each other in a race to the bottom. Maybe we'll find out?

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 04:19:55 PM
There's indications that Patrick Fitzgerald is after bigger fish.
Consider the criticism over his taking so long "just" to indict Libby.
It took a long time to take out the Gov of Illinois, but he did it, AND took out others as well.

Patrick Fitzgerald has said more than once you can't learn on Thursday what you gave out on Monday.  There's more going on than memory loss.  Add to this, you can't learn from Russert what he didn't tell you, no matter which day it was, while simultaneously denying you didn't discuss it with others, previously, even though evidence shows you did.

Couldn't this trial be about shaking out the lies from the truth to finally nail the real leaker?

So, what are the odds this is a planned step on the road to either Cheney and/or Rove?

I'm betting that by the time this is all over, Ken Starr will look like an amateur hack with way too many laser printers.

-----


--------
AUTHOR: Larry Johnson
TITLE: From Big Ed to Big Ego
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: 0
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/23/2007 02:23:44 PM
-----
BODY:
<p>by<br />Larry C Johnson</p>

<p>&quot;Progressive&quot; radio personality Big Ed Schultz, who touts himself as the anti-Sean Hannity, is increasinly acting like the very people he claims to abhor.&nbsp; Big Ed's latest target for his snit is Senator Hillary Clinton and her staff.&nbsp; According to <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Liberal_talk_show_host_trashes_Hillary_0123.html">John Byrne at Raw Story</a>, Schultz went on the rampage yesterday (Monday) against Hillary.&nbsp; Schultz said:</p><blockquote><p>Many of you have requested hearing from Hillary on progressive talk
especially The Ed Schultz Show. I want you to know our producer James
Holm tirelessly works the contacts and has repeatedly tried to connect
with Clinton's people.</p>

<p>Cutting to the chase, Hillary's people treat us like dirt. We are
constantly disregarded, told things that aren't true, and given
speculation an interview might happen someday.</p>

<p>Quite frankly, I'm sick of it. This morning I watched Hillary
Clinton tell CNN she is accessible. What? To the TV cameras yes, to the
base of loyal listeners on progressive talk radio, absolutely not!</p></blockquote><p>Ed, like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, relishes contrived controversy in order to boost ratings.&nbsp; But Ed likes to delude himself and deceive his audience with this humble pie act that is, in my opinion, a crock.&nbsp; Consider for example my own experience with Ed.&nbsp; &nbsp; </p>
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
<p>Ed's booker, James Holm, first sought me out back in 2005 because of my relationship with Valerie Plame.&nbsp; Shortly after testifying before Congress about the Valerie Plame matter I hosted Big Ed and his wife for dinner here in Washington.&nbsp; During the following year I appeared on Big Ed's Show several times.&nbsp; In fact, he finally started referring to me as the &quot;intelligence analyst&quot; for the Ed Schultz Show.&nbsp; </p>

<p>I was okay with Ed until I had the temerity to praise Keith Olbermann.&nbsp; When Olbermann started doing his special commentarys re the Bush Administration in August 2006 I posted a couple of pieces on this blog praising him for his courage.&nbsp; I subsequently noticed that Ed's booker, James Holm, stopped calling to ask me to comment on issues that they previously had asked me about.&nbsp; So, I sent the following email:</p><blockquote><p>From: <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Larry Johnson</span><br />To: <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Big Ed</span><a title="mailto:edkfgo%40aol.com" href="mailto:edkfgo%40aol.com">&nbsp;</a>&nbsp; <br />Sent: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 1:53 PM
<br />Subject: Is there a problem? <br />Ed, <br />Have I fallen from favor with you guys?&nbsp; I've called in a couple of times and get the feeling I'm being treated like someone's crazy aunt.&nbsp; If I've done something to offend I'd at least like to know what happened.<br />Best<br />LJ 
</p></blockquote><p>I was shocked by Ed's response.&nbsp; He was miffed because I said nice things about Keith Olbermann.</p><blockquote><p>From: Big Ed<a title="mailto:edkfgo%40aol.com" href="mailto:edkfgo%40aol.com">&nbsp;</a>
<br />Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:36:29 <br />To: <a title="mailto:lcjohnso%40ix.netcom.com" href="mailto:lcjohnso%40ix.netcom.com"> Larry Johnson</a><br />Subject: Re: Is there a problem? <br />Hi Larry... Honestly, I was a little taken by your staunch love for Olberman when he's pretty much a Johnny come lately to the game of Progressive broadcasting.&nbsp; &nbsp; He started out doing a straight news program and found the popular position as of late.&nbsp; I don't ask for anything and we've worked well together, but we were first to market and have a greater audience than Olberman.&nbsp; I guess it's the TV camera.&nbsp; &nbsp;Has Olberman promoted your blog as much as we have ? Fair question ?&nbsp; &nbsp;I'm sure we'll be calling you again sometime. <br />ed</p></blockquote><p>I was stunned.&nbsp; I mistakenly believed that Ed was a classier guy than that.&nbsp; Instead, just another insecure, jealous prick.&nbsp; What's really astonishing is that my kudos to Olbermann on my insignificant blog actually caught Big Ego's, er, I mean, Big Ed's attention.</p>

<p>Like any good battle I could not leave this alone.&nbsp; I wrote back:</p><blockquote><p>From: Larry Johnson<br />To: <a href="mailto:edkfgo%40aol.com" title="mailto:edkfgo%40aol.com">Big Ed</a> <br />Sent: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 3:57 PM <br />Subject: Re: Is there a problem? </p>

<p>Ed, I have been doing media since 1994.&nbsp; &nbsp;Having been on Nightline, Crossfire, NPR, Jim Lehrer, and all the major TV I did not realize you were competing with 
Keith Olberman.&nbsp; My comment praising Keith was not intended as a slight or insult to you.&nbsp; I would remind you I have never asked you for anything.&nbsp; In fact, I have gone out of my way to help you.&nbsp; I bought you and your wife dinner and hooked James up with Sy Hersh.&nbsp; &nbsp;I didn't realize you wanted me to write a blog about you or your show.&nbsp; I have known Keith Olberman for eight years; long before I heard of big Ed. 
If you had said something as eloquent as Keith I would have been singing your praises.&nbsp; Unfortunately, you have not performed at that level yet (though Ibelieve you can).&nbsp; In any event, please don't promote or refer to my blog.&nbsp; &nbsp;I was content before I met you and will continue to be happy.&nbsp; I am sure that I will never appear on your program again.&nbsp; Not interested.&nbsp; I will continue to listen to you, but I will take you off my distribution list so as not to ruffle your feathers if I happen to compliment someone you view as a rival. <br />Best <br />Larry</p></blockquote><p>It is a shame that someone like Ed Schultz, with the platform he has, can be so petty and small minded.&nbsp; In my opinion he is not about principle, he is all about market share.&nbsp; When it comes down to a choice between a commitment to progressive values or grabbing market share let their be no doubt--it is all about Ed.&nbsp; Senator Clinton's staff is learning that point today.<br />
 
</p>
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/23/2007 02:44:20 PM
What's funny too is that, a couple days ago, I read a blogger's comments about how difficult it is to reach the Edwards or Obama campaigns ... Edwards' people don't return his calls, etc.  But Hillary Clinton's staff is exceedingly professional and returns his calls promptly.

I'll try to remember where I read that.  But i know what I read.

I'm just guessing, but perhaps they don't want Mrs. Clinton to appear on his program.  And he can't take a hint.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Tap Duncan
EMAIL: tapduncan@aol.com
IP: 64.12.116.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 02:52:30 PM
Hey Larry, Thanks for letting us in on your personal experience with Big Ed. It always sucks when you find out that a person you look up to for fighting the good fight, is possibly doing it only for their own good, and not for the cause. What a bummer, damn!!!  I wondered why I hadn't heard you on the show lately and now I know why. Thank you, hang tough, Tap
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/23/2007 03:00:07 PM
Oh god. This'll really slay Ed.  From Keith's daily newsletter:

"Keith interviews Sen. Hillary Clinton"

"Full ramp-up to the President's State of the Union address tonight... (the speech is at 9 pm et, our newshour will be must-see TV!)

"We'll also have more than one segment devoted to Keith's interview with Senator Hillary Clinton. ..."

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: RickJoel
EMAIL: rickjoel@erols.com
IP: 207.190.234.194
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 03:08:04 PM
I'm shocked as well by your comments on Ed Shultz. He wasn't my number 1 progressive radio host but I liked him. Since Progressive radio was yanked from the Boston market I really don't get to hear anything. I'm sorely disappointed in hearing this. Toward the end, as I listened to Mr. Shultz I kinda thought he was becomming to vocal. I hope he will step back a little and take a look at what's happening.I hope that that's not what going big time does to you.  Thanks for your side of the story.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Jack Moore
EMAIL: alfonsobedoya@hotmail.com
IP: 72.193.71.84
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 04:07:54 PM
Just goes to show that some of us Progressives can be asshats, too.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jpol
EMAIL: jpolicoff@comcast.net
IP: 68.54.141.225
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 04:19:03 PM
I stopped listening to Ed Schulz long ago.  His ego is insufferable, and he is rather un-informed on way too many issues.
I remember when he reamed out Howard Dean on the air for much the same reason he went after Hillary.  It seems Dean had not jumped to do Ed's Show within seconds of being asked.  Dean stood up to him and reminded him that he had a busy schedule and a 50-state strategy that took precedent over doing the Ed Schulz Show.
Your story about Olbermann says all that needs to be said about Ed Schulz.  He isn't fit to shine Olbermann's shoes.  I see he recently did Tucker Carlson's horrible show.  Good.  They deserve each other.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 04:39:35 PM
rickjoel-  you too?  I used to listen to stephanie miller and al franken.  96.9 has this horrible neo con guy graham on in barnicles place.  I hadn't listened to dennis prager since franken came on.  he still says the same stuff
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ker
EMAIL: ker@yahoo.com
IP: 216.13.88.86
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 05:22:28 PM
Ed's booker,?  A booker is a closed case.  Like the UFO black book thing.  Air Force shows up with that black book at the hospital and it's over.  Right?

Analyst?  Make the transition from CIA To DOD/NSA?  

You ever see Hilly on that horse with the riding clothes.  I'm just saying my waste is a 32.  

What ya' got there?  

 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jc
EMAIL: me@you.com
IP: 24.17.99.108
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 05:43:59 PM
something tells me Ed is upset with Keith because he's never been invited on the program, and got jealous that you did, reacting like a diva in the process. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Anacher Forester
EMAIL: mitchnyc@aol.com
IP: 216.6.156.196
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 05:54:01 PM
Ed Schultz is a big baby. Period. Having an unsual understanding of the medium, I realize bluster comes as part and parcel of the gig. But I never, ever bought his schtick as genuine. Always thought he was a Rush wannabe in sheep's clothing. If Rush was a liberal (God forbid!), I can't shake the feeling that Ed would be spouting rhetoric of a different color.

With the political winds blowing in his favor, Ed's dream of being the next Limbaugh is so close he can taste it. His inability to get Sen. Clinton on his show  is a speed bump to that end and a very public affront to his ego. Lowering himself to on-air blackmail in an attempt to expedite the issue only magnifies his impotence.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 204.117.117.26
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 06:12:02 PM
I think it is fascinating that there are so many people in the media that are losing their minds right now?  Joey Scar has gone back to sounding "left out"  and making statements that are just bizarre.  He gets a 5 minute bump from Keith, and seems to get rid of the whole crowd that had hung around with his first statements.   The meter in the room for who is watching must just tank, and that is when he gets depressed.

trial starts just after congress makes big changes
sotu  is on same day as opening arguments
is this a coinkydink?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Catori
EMAIL: 
IP: 72.65.154.231
URL: http://profile.typekey.com/Catori/
DATE: 01/23/2007 06:26:40 PM
This doesn't surprise me. He does think well of himself. I remember right after the elections he almost broke his arm patting himself on the back.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/23/2007 06:35:05 PM
It's fascinating some of you think that Ed Schultz may be opportunistic in his "progressivism."  Could well be.  If he really cared about redirecting the country, he'd think beyond his ego and wouldn't bash Keith and Hillary.

There are some who've made the big switch.  David Brock, who runs Media Matters, comes to mind.  He was a hatchet man against Bill Clinton, then had an epiphany and now runs what is a near-scholarly, deeply researched site that analyzes the tripe that the MSM sometimes comes out with.  In other words, he's providing an invaluable service in countering the Rush Limbaugh types (and Wash. Post, etc.), and one that surely takes a hell of a lot of time, money, and staff.

EXAMPLE:  Did any of you see that bizarro hatchet piece that the WaPo's John Solomon wrote about John Edwards?  Media Matters has twice delved into it, and in its latest installment found that reporter Solomon have may misstated federal law:
<a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200701230004" rel="nofollow">http://mediamatters.org/items/200701230004</a>

Original item:

"Wash. Post's Solomon baselessly suggested shady Edwards land deal"

<a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200701190010" rel="nofollow">http://mediamatters.org/items/200701190010</a>

Solomon's story is so idiotic.  A lot of bloggers attacked it, but Brock's Media Matters went the extra mile with valuable research.

I.e., Brock's conversion smells real because he really puts in the work and time.

:::

 Ed Schultz is right now on with Tucker Carlson.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 07:06:59 PM
old tree-  I sympathize with Joe scarborough though.  not in terms of ratings or whatever, but he is really trying to bring conservatives into what is going on these days.  I'm sorry but most people aren't concerned about ward churchill or sandy berger or whatever FOX news claims is a big deal.  plus, he has buchanan on pretty much every night.  

 He hasn't been fully weened off neo con propaganda yet, and neither has america, but there's hope.  
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: mary
EMAIL: macoo.1@pfavor.net
IP: 64.12.116.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 07:13:08 PM
Ed Schultx is the biggest phony in radio.  I don't know how his small band of listeners can stand his show.  Did you ever notice how Schultz sounds like a Disney character when he gets excited on the air?  Sure.......Donald Duck.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Anacher Forester
EMAIL: AnacherForrester@aol.com
IP: 216.6.156.196
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 07:48:59 PM
Susan, you nailed it. If Ed was truly focused on advancing progressive causes, he wouldn't be looking for slights real or imagined from within the movement. So he's having trouble booking a hot A-level guest, why can't he take the high road?

Fostering perceived "controversies" is not just lazy but also one of the more despicable tactics of the right wing noise machine. It's a tired play typically employed as smoke-screen to hide inferior content.   

Ed's pretty clearly miffed that Olbermann has usurped his perceived role as MSM's leading liberal voice. A growing willingness to use his platform as a bully pulpit is a sure sign of that insecurity. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcgobal.net
IP: 75.45.212.45
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 08:18:49 PM
It would be to any media host's advantage to have Larry on. 

Larry, thanks for sharing this. It's too bad, like you said. What I really don't like in Ed's last response - "I'm sure we'll be calling you sometime." He has a door open there to say and do the right thing.
He could have copped to 
succumbing to the green eyed monster and said,"Hey man, that'smy personal issue and I'm over it.When can we have youon   
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcgobal.net
IP: 75.45.212.45
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 08:25:33 PM
My cat just stepped on my keyboard and sent my post before it or I was ready. 
Anyway, I know you're a class act Larry, all the way around.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: MufsMom
EMAIL: cats_rule_me@earthlink.net
IP: 76.17.212.122
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 09:27:34 PM
Ed is a legend in his own mind.  He blasts people who don't say "how high?" when he says jump and he rushes to repeat allegations against Dems, no matter how spurious, to show he is "fair and balanced." He disrespects members of Congress by calling them by their first names and bragging about his inside contacts.   I stopped listening long ago. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Delia
EMAIL: shootingstar7@comcast.net
IP: 24.22.35.207
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 10:11:40 PM
Thanks for sharing this, Larry.  One thing that's put me off Big Ed is his refusal to tolerate any discussion from his callers on the Palestinian or Lebanese issue that is not whole-heartedly pro-Israel.  He just shuts them down very rudely.

In fact, generally speaking, he tends to shut down callers who disagree with him.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.110.251
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 09:07:19 AM
Larry

You have just [absolutely] shown yourself to be a human being.

People are generally pissy and insecure. Friendships are all about when the shouting is over you sincerely miss the people you like who aren't there anymore.

er...PS...I never believed for a minute you were an alien like President Bush.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/24/2007 01:27:27 PM
The AGONY continues for Big Ed tonight.  From KO's newsletter today:

"Part 3 of Keith's interview with Sen. Hillary Clinton."
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: lester
EMAIL: oilymaniac@yahoo.com
IP: 207.172.133.54
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 02:05:50 PM
how come no one asks her about rodham?  like who was he?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 06:06:50 PM
Sorry Larry, I can't comment on Big Ed, because I never listen to him and don't know anything about him. It doesn't sound like I'm missing much though.

Keith Olbermann may have come late to the party, but his special comments are wonderful and so needed. When the media talk about issues that affect lives, ego shouldn't have a role in that. That's one of the reasons that Olbermann's special comments are so great. It's obvious, he speaks from his heart.

Speaking of media...Senator Obama is going after Faux News for their attempted swift boating of him, lying that his father sent him to an Indonesian madrassa. When, in fact, Obama attended an Indonesian public school, he wasn't raised Muslim, he isn't a Muslim, he's a Christian and he only met his atheist father once before he died.

<a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/01/post_15.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/01/post_15.php</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 06:14:50 PM
P.S. Larry, it doesn't sound like you're missing much by not hearing from Big Ed either. His email to you is telling.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: TheOtherWA
EMAIL: theotherwash@yahoo.com
IP: 65.100.58.107
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 03:09:00 AM
"If he really cared about redirecting the country, he'd think beyond his ego and wouldn't bash Keith and Hillary."

Bingo, SusanUnPC. Ed constantly trashes Air America too, which is really stupid, since they're on the same side. He didn't have to compliment them or talk about them at all, but attacking them was uncalled for. 

He thinks he's competing with KO? On what planet? A one hour evening tv newscast and a daytime radio talk show do not compete.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: John Lawrence
EMAIL: j.c.lawrence@cox.net
IP: 68.107.120.205
URL: http://willblogforfood.typepad.com
DATE: 01/25/2007 12:32:48 PM
I have to listen to Big Ed on AM KLSD instead of Randi Rhodes on XM Air America when I'm not in my car and just have my AM headset. Much prefer Randi. Big Ed goes on like he's some big football honcho at times, and I'm not listening to find out about football although it seems to have been very, very good to Big Ed. He's a blowhard and a half, but he does land some good guests. Sometimes his ignorance shows in the way he handles callers.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/25/2007 06:42:03 PM
<a href="http://www.blogpi.net/hillary-in-blogistan-on-blogads-the-netroots-and-peter-daou" rel="nofollow">http://www.blogpi.net/hillary-in-blogistan-on-blogads-the-netroots-and-peter-daou</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Keyser Soze
EMAIL: darkestm@darkestmatter.com
IP: 204.16.72.212
URL: http://darkestmatter.com/thepub
DATE: 02/14/2007 09:56:22 PM
Thanks Larry. Sam Seder linked this up on his show blog. Interesting developments recently with Ed. He went a little nuts on Al Franken, Air America, Sam, Mike Malloy and his bloody callers. Anyone who disagreed. He even went as far as saying "I am the truth"
Unbelievable.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Che
EMAIL: che@uwalumni.com
IP: 68.189.171.18
URL: 
DATE: 02/14/2007 10:11:49 PM
Larry,
Have you ever considered becoming a counselor for people breaking up? I had to chuckle at your line, "I was content before I met you and will continue to be happy." The progressive community could use great voices, and hopefully Ed will turn this into an opportunity for personal growth in his quest for a better tomorrow.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: KDinPDX
EMAIL: nospam@yahoo.com
IP: 24.22.101.215
URL: 
DATE: 02/15/2007 12:14:12 AM
I, too, came to this via the link on Sam's blog. When I read your post, it VERIFIED what I've been TELLING people for YEARS about "Big Ed" - he's a JERK! I lived in Fargo, ND for 17 years and know more than I'd like to about that JERK, and I was even a guest on his local show back when he was just a beginning hack. He was a prick when he was a Fargo sportscaster, he was a prick when he was a nobody radio host, and it seems he hasn't changed ONE bit! Once a prick, ALWAYS a prick! He's NOTHING but an opportunist, neocon, progressive wannabe. Egomaniac is too polite of a term for that PRICK! AAR should tell him to PISS OFF!!!!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: KDinPDX
EMAIL: nospam@yahoo.com
IP: 24.22.101.215
URL: 
DATE: 02/15/2007 01:09:39 AM
Yes, I just watched the video "highlights" on "Big Ed's" web page and ANYONE that sees them, it will be OBVIOUS that Ed is a FREAK! He goes around BASHING AAR and it's hosts, but Ed is HARDLY one to be speaking of "ethics". Just ask his first wife!!!!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: RF
EMAIL: nospam@noway.com
IP: 68.114.59.26
URL: http://www.google.com
DATE: 02/15/2007 10:16:08 AM
Nice to know a view of the Real Ed Schultz-

Appreciated-

RF in NH
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ProgressiveBlendRadio
EMAIL: info@progressiveblendradio.com
IP: 70.167.243.7
URL: http://www.progressiveblendradio.com
DATE: 02/15/2007 11:14:18 AM
The Big Eddiot has tipped his hand once again. I had the misfortune of catching a bit of his tirade and it was pathetic beyond belief, and once again the guy who became a democrat to impress a girl had the nardz to go off on Olberman for being a 'johnny come lately'! 

My sense is that the Eddiot knows he doesnt have the intellectual chops of, oh, say a Thom Hartman, and its shaking in his boots at having to compete against him in the noon timeslot.

Just one more reason we decided to do it ourselves over at www.progressiveblendradio.com

Peace
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jdk
EMAIL: angler36604@mypacks.net
IP: 4.232.105.20
URL: 
DATE: 02/15/2007 02:46:30 PM
All I know is that I have to turn off Air America at noon these days (I''m in LA), as the angry voice of Big Ed, his namecalling is a total turnoff and gives me a headache. I happened across this site as I went to Air America to find out what the new schedule will be after Al Franken. I also happen to respect Keith Olbermann and would never miss Countdown as his articulate and informed commentaries of late are a breath of fresh air on television.

So from outside of this fray I totally concur. The spittle virtually sprays out of the radio, how can anyone listen to such self promotion and wrath, we have a choice: a little off/on button.  I'd like to know where to write my opinions on that show where those in control know it's such a turn off (literally).
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: sparky
EMAIL: spark@juno.com
IP: 152.157.32.2
URL: 
DATE: 02/15/2007 07:37:26 PM
I took some time and found a few AAR stations from around the country who stream their broadcasts. That way, i can bounce around stations to find someone I actually want to listen to.

Not much to add to what people have said about Big Eddie...he had a very low draw at his live appearance in Seattle, while the tag team of Hartmann, Maddow, Miller and Malloy had standing room only...

I dont listen..I stream Randi live from the New York City station when Ed is on...
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: libbie
EMAIL: sferren@comcast.net
IP: 67.171.129.35
URL: 
DATE: 02/15/2007 07:46:15 PM
Any talk person that does not research what was given/told to him prior to mouthing off is not worth my time.  It is obvious that Ed did not ask Sam what he meant by his comments before he went ballistic.  The right thing to do would have been for him to contact Sam and ask him if the comments were true and if they were what did he mean by them.  I'm afraid that we have a progressive RUSH on our hands and that would be a shame.  Whoever said that we should be supporting each other in the progressive area was "spot on."  This may be an air time competition but don't get nasty about it.  Ed got nasty and I'm sorry for him.  His jealousy and envy (deadly sins) are getting the best of him.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: barooosk
EMAIL: barooosk@cox.net
IP: 72.194.95.253
URL: http://www.talkingradio.blogspot.com
DATE: 02/16/2007 01:46:20 AM
Did you hear Schultz's meltdown earlier this week.
He said Air America "sucks" ten times and that various AAR hosts can "eat him" a half dozen times.

You can listen to his rant here

<a href="http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/021307HourOne.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/021307HourOne.mp3</a>

Or read about it here

<a href="http://talkingradio.blogspot.com/2007/02/ed-schultz-blasts-air-america-radio.html" rel="nofollow">http://talkingradio.blogspot.com/2007/02/ed-schultz-blasts-air-america-radio.html</a>


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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BaScOmBe
EMAIL: mmdccbslm@yahoo.com
IP: 12.44.59.201
URL: http://www.airamerica.com/user/331438
DATE: 02/16/2007 09:28:17 AM
Ed is a shill, as far as I am concerned. A right-wing liberal, like LIEberman, is NOT Liberal. He's just a jerk trying to steer the left away from their mission of saving this country.

Now we discover that he is as egotistical as his ads. I am not surprised at all. 

and now he wants to attask AAR. Again, NOT surprised. He's not a left-wing hannity, just a closet wanker, like LIEberman.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BlueJac
EMAIL: j.s.martin@comcast.net
IP: 24.20.27.202
URL: 
DATE: 02/16/2007 10:22:59 AM
I use to listen to Ed too, but he was too in love with himself for me and had very little historical prespective to bring to his conversations.  Ed tries to fool people into staying with his slumping program by talking about a lot of senseless topics.  Larry, you were one of his best guest.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: gregrocker
EMAIL: gregrocker@hotmail.com
IP: 203.10.59.63
URL: 
DATE: 02/16/2007 09:57:47 PM
In addition, Ed's busy message board has been taken over by Young Republican dirty tricks operatives who have even installed their own as the Board Moderator.  I track these sleazeballs since before the days Jack Abramoff and Karl Rove turned YR entirely into a dirty tricks training camp.  Have infiltrated their meetings for years and exposed what they were up to.  Today my son does the same thing.  There was a workshop at their last D.C. conclave in which they bragged about the complete takeover of the Schultz message board.  In attendance was the new board moderator.  When I exposed this on the board, my account was immediately closed even though I am one of Ed's favorite callers and the only one who frequently calls championing Ed's pet project of having Congress via hearings pressure owners into balancing the AM radio dial.  Am talk radio is nothing but a far right disinformation operation peddling lies without rebuttal, an arm of the GOP dirty tricks empire.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ChickenMan
EMAIL: milw_35@yahoo.com
IP: 69.236.196.152
URL: 
DATE: 02/17/2007 12:28:18 AM
Personally, I can't stand Ed.  I listen to AAR every morning until his show comes on then I switch to something - anything - else.

He seems to make simple or very general observations that he thinks are profound.  For the most part, I find them trite, uninformed or just plain wrong.

Granted, I think that he does reel in listeners in mid-America that may otherwise miss out completely on any talk radio that is not biased to the right but beyond that, he is nothing exceptional.  In my opinion, labelling himself a "progressive" is a real stretch.

I heard the beginnings of his rant against Sam Seder (who, unfortunately, is no longer on my local AAR affiliate) and had to turn it off.  It wasn't that I chose to ignore his position; it's just that I often feel embarrassed for him since he sounds so... uninformed and defensive.

It seems that Thom Hartman taking over Franken's slot began this whole flap.  Fortunately, KQKE has been carrying Thom's show for a month or so and I believe it's one of the best shows currently on AAR.

Anyway, that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

Nuff said.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Oregon democrat
EMAIL: jmarblue@yahoo.com
IP: 71.59.216.36
URL: 
DATE: 02/17/2007 01:02:48 AM
I remember a couple of years ago when Air America was just gettting popular and I heard Al Franken mention something about being #1 in Portland, Oregon.  Ed Schulz's show followed Al's and when Ed came on that day he was livid. Claimed HE was #1 and who did Franken think he was anyway. something like that. i wrote him an email and told him he was pretty popular here in Portland too and what Al probably meant was that Air American was #1, not just the Franken show.  I got a rather nasty email back from one of Ed's associates. I wrote back and he answered, "you're such a nice person" and when I wrote again, HE wrote "you're such a nice person".  wtf    how childish.  no longer a fan. I miss Al already tho.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: pc
EMAIL: paris2500@yahoo.com
IP: 24.9.75.14
URL: 
DATE: 02/17/2007 11:50:15 AM
After hearing Ed rant and carry on this week about Sam Seder and AAR, I can't remember being so turned off by anything, so much so, I turned him off for the first time.  I have felt myself bristle several times when Ed was on a rant about something, or when he pimps his own book all the time (which is his right on his own show, but still...) or lately when he just goes off on something - but I always returned to listen to him.  But after this week's rantings, I'm still angry with him and really couldn't care less if I listen again or not.  He wants to be (and thinks he is) the big cheese in both radio and apparently television too, but he's only fooling himself if he believes that he is.  He has a LONG way to go for that, and to get pissy about Keith Olbermann shows his arrogance big time.  Eddie - CHILL THE HELL OUT.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: rpppolyp
EMAIL: droidboy010101@netscape.net
IP: 71.255.238.139
URL: 
DATE: 02/17/2007 01:14:31 PM
Hey, Larry... sorry you seemed to have been caught in the middle of a little ego back wash (your handling of it was pure class.)  Seems like this later AAR and Ed thing was inevitable.  I would normally chalk it up to simple competition had his rant not been so over the top, but I have to wonder if Ed's long running feud with Randi Rhodes has somethings to do with it as well.  

Well, look forward to hearing you on Randi's show again.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Jim 
EMAIL: edlyn@california.com
IP: 70.231.239.27
URL: 
DATE: 02/17/2007 02:40:48 PM
I liked Big Ed until he went into his rage on Monday about AAR.
He reminded me of a little brat that couldn't have his way when Mommy took him to the toy store. I listen to KQKE here in the San Francisco Bay Area and when Schultz comes on at noon, I turn him off and go to XM radio and listen to the more informitive Randi Rhodes.
I wonder how many more Big Ed has alienated since his out burst?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: cassandra complex
EMAIL: chutzpahintights@hotmail.com
IP: 66.245.204.74
URL: http://www.patriotacts.blogspot.com
DATE: 02/17/2007 03:57:09 PM
when ed comes on i take the opportunity to get familiar with the right wing's talking points and tune into hannity or rush or some lesser evil.  after about 30 minutes of that, i'm all caught up and i go to pacifica or npr.

before ed started driving me crazy, i was just listening to aar all day and i think that's unwise.  so, i guess ed's performing a service for me.

of course, i'm back into randi when she's on and i'd never miss rachel maddow...

i remember telling my friends a while back that something just wasn't right with that guy... kinda like i said about bush...

it's exhausting, this ability to see troy burning and not being able to do anything about it...

peace.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Pat Ryan
EMAIL: superx294@yahoo.com
IP: 148.63.143.163
URL: http://www.blueoregon.com
DATE: 02/17/2007 05:08:16 PM
Very unhappy to hear about Big Ed's descent into madness.

I accompanied my wife to Boston in '04 for the big convention, and blogged a bit as a camp follower to our local Oregon blog Blue Oregon.

The place was, of course, infested with political junkies and politicians posing for photos etcetera. 

I chose to have my only photo op with Big Ed. 

**********

I've backed him for reasons noted in several previous comments:

He looks and sounds like the uniformed "Heartland", but pushes for "progressive" candidates to win.

I listen to Hartmann to actually learn new info and hear succinct well reasoned conclusions based on facts.

I listen(ed) to Big Ed to try to gauge the rhetoric and mood of the voters that we're all after--The Uniformed Center.

If he descends into petty vendettas, his lack of rigor and refusal to do research will quickly destroy whatever cachet that he currently holds for folks like myself. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Richard Swanson
EMAIL: richncarolyn@unitedmainliner.com
IP: 66.52.222.184
URL: 
DATE: 02/18/2007 12:29:01 AM
Listening to Ed (to me, he is not Big Ed), he has come across as someone who considers himself bigger and more important than the cause.  Doing so, he seems so small.  Why does he not understand, you find something bigger than yourself and go all out for it.  Only then do you grow.  That is what Mr. Olbermann has done.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mary True
EMAIL: truchelu@bellsouth.net
IP: 70.149.75.235
URL: 
DATE: 02/18/2007 02:33:57 AM
Happened across this blog while looking for Larry's statistics on "Iranian-produced weapons" in Iraq.  I agree with the posts here; Ed has long impressed me as having a huge ego. A couple of years ago, when he was just starting out getting onto Air America Radio-based stations (even though he was with Jones Network at the time), I would call and actually get on the air. He never seemed to get my point, or want to pursue the subject I was introducing. On my second call, his board op asked me whether I had ever called before. He also instructed me to not ask Ed, "How are ya doin'?" While these could be minor annoyances, they just hit me as a form of censorship and control. After my third call to the show months later, I stopped calling. When Ed one day fixated on hunting and proceeded to offer a play-by-play instruction of how to skin an animal while talking to a hunter-caller, I wrote an e-mail to my local station in protest. He likes to create an image of a "regular guy" from the Midwest, but sometimes he just sounds like a self-inflated jock.

The one good thing that I've always tuned in for is the fact that he does get interesting interviews of Senators and Congress members. But after his tirade this past week re Air America and especially against Sam Seder -- who is miles above Ed when it comes to intellect and knowledge of history and political issues -- I too can't listen anymore. It was hopelessly embarrassing to listen to his infantile rant, and just plain stupid of him to do it. He's just burning one bridge after another. Anyone who is supposedly on the left, even if it's close to center, needs to support all who believe. I agree with all of you here who question Ed's motives. Is he really for the Dems who want to move this country out of despair, or is he in it to see his name and mug in lights?

Larry, thank you for this window into Ed. And thanks for all you do to keep us citizens informed about this criminal administration.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: peggy b
EMAIL: peggyb@memes.com
IP: 71.227.214.229
URL: http://washouts.blogspot.com/
DATE: 02/19/2007 12:28:55 AM
man this big ed thing is soo weird....although i personally have not identified with ed(not big on hunting, sports, meat eating, etc) i have appreciated him and considered him an important voice.(i always called him one of my favorite portals to bring people in who might not otherwise hear the liberal progressive point of view.)  the other day i heard his rant on air america and i was shocked.  personally i do not feel this is about any one person and when someone displays that type of narsissism it is very disappointing.  i appreciate your sharing of your experience.  thanks!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Frank (Sauchelli) Mazurkiewicz
EMAIL: frank@mazurkiewicz.com
IP: 24.20.186.148
URL: 
DATE: 02/19/2007 02:34:40 PM
I both; appreciate the visability on this issue because listening to big eddy did not reveal what the controversary was all about, and regret to hear and see progressive agents battling with each other, which I think at least delutes our Progressive/Liberal message and provides ammo to our NEOCON adversaries.

I will quietly reduce my time listening and promoting big eddie. However we need to note that he does feed some important facts and realities to the NEOCON types that listen to him because he does have a limbaugh (small l) style on the radio.

Frank Mazurkiewicz, 
38 Years combined Service USA, USAF, USAFR, USACE, and Vietnam Vet 1969

P.S. I like this web's comment reveal and responding system.  It is very user easy. I am posting my e-mail address here to see/invite any readers to communicate with me.
frank@mazurkiewicz.com
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: fmazurk
EMAIL: frank@mazurkiewicz.com
IP: 24.20.186.148
URL: http://profile.typekey.com/Mac_tarnahan_1/
DATE: 02/19/2007 03:45:56 PM
I visited the web (video)links to the big eddie show that started this discussion and must expand my comment.  big (now little eddie) is over board with his comments and gone beyond any comments made by AAR hosts including Mike Malloy how I loved but do recall a very short negative comment about eddie and now in the context of eddie's explosion, was kinder than maybe could have been.  bye bye eddie

Frank Mazurkieiwcz 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Graybeard
EMAIL: RickyDik@ix.netcom.com
IP: 71.116.168.217
URL: 
DATE: 02/19/2007 06:00:35 PM
I use to be a regular on weGotEd's Forum, but dropped it as soon as I read this.  There are interesting contributors there, as here, but they can initiate any topic.

I tivo Olbermann, and watch faithfully, save for the trivial final segments.  Dobbs gets my attention for the full hour.  It's all real, important news, save for the recent bashing of Pelosi..

Thanks, Larry, and Susan.  
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Randy Steiner
EMAIL: astrigeo@cvip.net
IP: 129.8.213.42
URL: 
DATE: 02/19/2007 10:41:17 PM
 I too heard the incredible rant against AAR (as crap) and Sam Seder who said nothing against little ed, but asked for listeners' support to include Tom Hartmann when replacing Al's wonderful forum guests show. ED talked about business-I thought competition was good for business. Now little ed is professing that the "actionable intelligence" against Iran is more important in attacking that country tired of war and wishes only ceasing of hostilities aginst them. Little ed thinks the staged proof offered by military analysts recently to media,(who were forbidden from pictures, audio, and list sources as anonymous), to be credible about supplying weapons materials- used since 2004! 
Now liitle ed is spouting off about being #5 in Talker's Magazine, behind "Rash Limpjaw, Herr Hannity, Savidge the Idiot, and Dr.Lore(a)". Ed needs to learn humility and be glad he came to national recognition with the formation of AAR and its broad appeal because of Al Franken and the need for the search for truth, not the standard "hate talk radio."
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Bryan Turner
EMAIL: bryntrnr@gmail.com
IP: 24.22.7.66
URL: 
DATE: 02/22/2007 05:25:48 PM
Greetings "Sammyfans",

Just read this blog for the first time. I am impressed, and pleased, by the civility and respect of the commentary. Kudos to you all for it.
Far too often, such conversations are wrecked by "willfully ignorant" gasbags, each determined to blow more air out of the room while sucking up more oxygen with their bluster than anyone else. Such people consistently choose volume over content so as to avoid confusion by the facts on any given matter. 
- I count Ed Schulz as second to few  in such an arena. Having said that, I also think that Frank M., on Feb.19, made a good point about how Schultz is sometimes a conduit for info to the neocon types that listen to him, that might not hear it otherwise. So, anyhooo ... there ya go.
Take care out there, I wish you all Peace. Forever and always

Keep on keepin' on Sam, et al. 
 - bryan
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: gooderservice
EMAIL: gooderservice@noemailaddy.com
IP: 68.45.174.63
URL: 
DATE: 02/23/2007 12:54:20 AM
I just came to a realization I never put in words before:  All Air America hosts CARE about the issues they're talking about.  Not only do they care, but they feel people's pain and joy and want to  effectuate change.  And Larry most certainly cares about the same issues and has tried and is trying to effectuate a change for the better.   The same cannot be said about Ed.  I won't call him "Big." That's why I like listening to Air America hosts:  They care about the same things I do.   There is an incredible and noticeable difference about a radio host who cares about what they're talking about versus one who is only there to make money and promote themselves.

While catching up on my reading, I linked here through Sam Seder's Open Letter.  I think Larry got it exactly right, as usual:  "It is all about Ed."  I've never witnessed one Air America host or Larry make anything all about them.  I was so looking forward to listening to Thom Hartmann on February 19, but I was shocked when all I heard on XM was Ed between 12 and 3.  I've seen Ed before on TV and wasn't impressed, nor did I think he was very good in expressing progressive views.  

I'm considering canceling XM and subscribing to the premium subscription at Air America, and I'll just listen to the shows a day later.  I don't know how soon they're uploaded, but I hope it's timely.

Thanks, Larry, for confirming what I already suspected about Ed.  
-----


--------
AUTHOR: Larry Johnson
TITLE: Still Clueless After Six Years
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: 0
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/23/2007 09:59:35 PM
-----
BODY:
<p>by<br />Larry C Johnson</p>

<p>George W. Bush still does not get it.&nbsp; He insists that the terrorists hate us because of our freedom.&nbsp; NO THEY DON'T!!!!!!&nbsp; &nbsp;What sheer, utter nonsense.&nbsp; If you don't understand the task or problem at hand how can you come up with an appropriate fix?&nbsp; This is part of the reason that the Bush Presidency is in shambles.&nbsp; Call it the hubris of stupidity.</p>

<p>Let's start with the basics.&nbsp; There is no such thing as a terrorist.&nbsp; There are individuals who engage in terrorist acts and many of those persons are affiliated in one fashion or another with a group of some sort.&nbsp; But &quot;terrorist&quot;?&nbsp; Doesn't exist as an entity in and of itself.</p>

<p>The groups most keen on doing us in at the moment are Islamic extremists, largely Sunni, who swear allegiance of sorts to Osama Bin Laden.&nbsp; And what does Bin Laden want?&nbsp; God's rule on earth.&nbsp; He sees the United States as a godless nation, full of pedophiles, drug addicts, and prostitutes.&nbsp; He sees a nation that tramples on the rights of other people in order to suck their natural resources from the ground.&nbsp; For Osama it is about faith and obedience.&nbsp; It has zippo to do with &quot;freedom&quot;.</p>

<p>Now, if you paid attention to the Bin Laden check list it probably reminded you a bit of the agenda of our own American religious extremists.&nbsp; What rich irony.&nbsp; A President waiting for the rapture complaining about Islamic extremists who want to destroy us because we are sinners.</p>
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
<p>That's where the real battle needs to be waged.&nbsp; We need to confront religious extremism and intolerance.&nbsp; The President who presides over a Republican party committed to harassing homosexuals, denying global warming, preaching creationism, and sneering at science is frankly just a couple of steps removed from Islamic crazies hunkered over their prayer mats and praying to Allah.</p>

<p>At least most people of faith in the world--Christians, Moslems, and Jews--are not fanatics.&nbsp; Unfortunately the helm of two countries--the United States and Iran--are in the hands of such fanatics.&nbsp; It is an uncomfortable truth but it is still true.&nbsp; When a President consults his Father in heaven about the decision to invade Iraq, pray tell how that mindset differs from an Osama Bin Laden who is convinced that his God told him to strike the evil in America.&nbsp; Religious nuttery is nuts regardless of the particulars of the theology.</p>

<p>Left unsaid by George Bush is this terrible fact--his religious crusade to spread the faith of freedom in a land split between Sunni and Shia factions remains intact.&nbsp; God save us because our man of faith is still intent on going after the other religious kook in Iran.</p>
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Crackers
EMAIL: danenw@yahoo.com
IP: 67.182.141.209
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 10:11:06 PM
I actually gave GW the finger listening to his nonsense tonight.

I wish I could do it to his face.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 11:03:12 PM
Very well put, although the introduction could be taken out of context.

Bush fights fire with fire, 

and fear with fear,

and war with war,

and torture with torture,
and terra with terror.

He's become Herod.

Pinned between the cusp of empire and a cultural crossfire of conflicting and competing belief subsets.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcgobal.net
IP: 75.45.212.45
URL: 
DATE: 01/23/2007 11:49:10 PM
That was excellent Larry - powerful. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: EasyRider
EMAIL: englandx@cubuffs.com
IP: 68.105.177.34
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 12:06:15 AM
Larry,

Why is it that we Amercians can never see the entire videos or audios of the terorists? Why are denied this information? Are we suppose to trust our government? This is bull. If the terrorist cells needed information from their leaders they would not be checking for it in these videos. 

Why aren't these thing made public?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mart
EMAIL: culprops@wavelinx.net
IP: 66.210.171.130
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 12:53:29 AM
Amen brother Larry.  If you want to understand the nature of madness, consider this:  The worse the catastrophe in  Iraq becomes, the greater the chaos in the Middle East - the greater the utter joy of the evangelicals and fundamentalists who believe it signals the end time.    
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: shaman ∞ 
EMAIL: prth@earthlink.net
IP: 207.69.138.144
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 02:23:43 AM
Why aren't these thing made public?
Posted by:  EasyRider

Because that way they (the intel. community) can make the tapes of the Jihadi's say anything they(t.i.c.) think they(t.i.c.) want you to hear.
 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: pol
EMAIL: pollythewriter@comcast.net
IP: 69.140.249.170
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 07:57:55 AM
I don't buy the "Bush is a Christian" thing.  I think the label is all a big, fat lie -- a charade to win over that one faction of the country.  I believe the guy is stubborn, power hungry and sees the big bucks that can be made by keeping the Middle East in flames.  And mostly, I think his eye is on the prize -- oil.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Louis Lemire
EMAIL: none@yahoo.com
IP: 70.41.21.220
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 08:10:43 AM
Bush is a psychopathic lying whore who was too chicken shit, just like other right wingers, to put up or shut up when it was time for them to serve.

This country is being raped by a bunch of criminal rat bastards.  

Yet, America hasn't had enough.  Maybe there really is something to S&M -- 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.110.251
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 09:20:06 AM
Larry

You feel the President of Iran is a fanatic? I beg to differ with you there. In my opinion ran has become markedly more tolerant since the Ayatollah proclaimed the Islamic State and going on the limited rhetoric Mahmoud is offering through English sources, he seems to have his head screwed on (unlike the other leader you mentioned).

Iran is in a precarious position in my opinion. And I think you are talking about Israel....surreptitiously. Israel have behaved abysmally and deserve every misfortune they are overdue. Unfortunately there are a lot of fine and honourable Israelis who will suffer as a result of an establishment rotten to the core.

Israel, the home of God's chosen people. Pah, they are too evil for the devil. "No conscience, no scruples, self preservation at any cost." That is the mission of absolute evil.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: COLORADO BOB
EMAIL: coloradobob1@mac.com
IP: 72.26.146.105
URL: http://colorado-bob.blogspot.com/
DATE: 01/24/2007 09:33:52 AM
Don't forget the Hindu extremists in India. Their big beef ? 
Valentines Day.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 69.59.206.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 10:30:57 AM
Dead On Larry,   the definition of terrorist is critical!

the bush is transparent.  If you only consider the things he makes pet projects, and pet speeches or policy about,  then it becomes quite plain.
He talks about doing things for us,  but they never materialize.  He talks about an oil reserve, but it is to help his group make money, not help us become independent of oil,  hardly.   He forgets New Orleans,  he forgets the veterans, he is now trying to take the medical system apart along with social security.

with 20% of the people in agreement with this traitor,  why are we still suffering it in office?    Is there no one with any spine at all?

We need no more proof than the idiot child's speech pattern to know that he intends to destroy everything he tells people he wants to save.  I would like just one example of a contradiction in this matter.   It is as Biden and Levin said,  just show us one instance in which cheney has been right.   Include all of this executive.  Just one example please?

failure is such an obvious statement.  Again, why do we continue to suffer a traitor as the leader?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Other Tom
EMAIL: TMM89@san.rr.com
IP: 24.161.190.159
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:17:28 AM
WILSON FURIOUS ABOUT BEING CALLED "LOW-LEVEL"

WASHIGTON(AP) Marc Grossman, a prosecution witness and longtime friend of Joseph Wilson, testified under oath today that Wilson had called him to say he was "furious" about having been accurately described by 
Condoleezza Rice as a "low-level person."
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Tap Duncan
EMAIL: tapduncan@aol.com
IP: 205.188.117.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:29:53 AM
Larry, I still can't believe that there are people out there who live in such a state of denial about this crazy f-in' president. I do business with some people in the south and they are for all matters, normal. Except when it comes to shrub. They think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Personally, even if I did like him, I still wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrased. Hang tough, Tap
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcglobal.net
IP: 70.90.138.201
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:30:08 AM
Larry,
  Not only are you an excellent writer but your analysis is spot on. This is prepared for us as if you were providing us as an assessment - intel report  of another country and it's leader/ideology. We are fortunate to get such a report, small wonder you got those commendations and that your expertise is in demand.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: SusanUnPC
EMAIL: SusanUnPC@gmail.com
IP: 71.35.171.28
URL: http://noquarter.typepad.com
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:45:14 AM
He didn't even mention Katrina / New Orleans last night, best I recall.  

Then there was trotting out the "heroes" at the end. HANKIE TIME! First, there are countless heroes in every nation through every period of history.  

Second, what in the hell does being an American have to do with Aubrey's courageous (if highly risky) act?

If he were an Iraqi or a Japanese, would he be incapable of such heroism?

Emotional blackmail, it was. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Maalox
EMAIL: maalox02053@yahoo.com
IP: 216.204.61.74
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 12:10:50 PM
While we are defining terrorist perhaps we could define winning and losing in Iraq too?  

When will our press ask such simple and informative questions and "press" these bureaucrats for a useful answer?  

I'll take that over contrived controversy any day.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.24
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 12:24:59 PM
via Digby, an appropriate response althought it took place pre-speech:

<a href="http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=32259" rel="nofollow">http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=32259</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Crackers
EMAIL: danenw@yahoo.com
IP: 67.182.141.209
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 12:48:27 PM
"When will our press ask such simple and informative questions and "press" these bureaucrats for a useful answer?"

This is off-topic, but...I keep seeing this comment everywhere.

The truth of the matter is that the media are now owned by a handful of huge corporations who have a vested interest in and an adoration of BushCo, the 'cons, and war (their parent companies profit from war).

It really is that simple.

The 'cons have effectively destroyed the free press. They *really* want to go after blogs next, and selling the Web to the TeleComs will accomplish this.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Firefly
EMAIL: 
IP: 216.220.231.139
URL: http://profile.typekey.com/sshropshire/
DATE: 01/24/2007 02:10:26 PM
"What rich irony.  A President waiting for the rapture complaining about Islamic extremists who want to destroy us because we are sinners."

I always enjoy reading posts at this blog, but I think this one is the most succinct, dead-on analysis of the situation I have seen or heard anywhere.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 03:42:57 PM
I didn't watch Bush last night? Did I miss anything? Oh, he used the ole "terrorists hate us for our freedoms" line again. Well, if that were true, which it isn't, wouldn't they have bombed the Statue of Liberty on 9/11, instead of Wall Street [our financial power] and the Pentagon [our military power]? 

Senator Webb's rebuttal was excellent. Did everyone watch it? If not, Crooks and Liars has the videotape.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 05:13:30 PM
Leslie, I didn't watch it either because I was driving.  But I listened to an after speech show on local L.A. Pacifica station KPFK where Bob Barr (former GOP rep, now a Libertarian) said it was really boring and he had trouble staying awake for the too long full hour.  He also said he approved of Webb's rebutal.  Before that, Ralph Nader was on and said he thought Webb's rebutal was the best and most direct to the important issues speech he'd ever heard from a Democrat.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 05:28:18 PM
Larry,
"We need to confront religious extremism and intolerance."

AMEN!

Paul in
1 Corinthians 12:12-13
"For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-Jews or Greeks, slaves or free-and all were made to drink of one Spirit."

OK, cumbersome language, but then, he was in prison at the time.

As an old friend used to say,
"It takes all kinds of people to make a world."

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Diane
EMAIL: patyjewicz5@charter.net
IP: 68.114.71.164
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 05:31:47 PM
I did not watch his presentation, I was too sad.
My husband counsels vets. Yesterday he had 3 vets from Iraq that are having a Very tough time with what they saw and what they did while over there. They are haveing a very tough time and most likely will be going back with this escalation.
My thinking is this, we will be sending damaged soldiers who will either get hurt or killed morer easily or we are setting up iraq civillians for more atrocities.
These are alot of national guard men and women.
What would happen if another Katrina or a larger scale terrorist attack took place?
We will be having lots of men and women with "issues" looking out for us.
Because, let me tell you services were we live have not been up graded even with more vets returning.
Bush is destroying this country. 
I hope we can recover from him and the repubs.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 05:42:00 PM
Ybnormal,
Huffington reported that McCain fell asleep during the speech. 

Part of Webb's speech: "Like so many other Americans, today and throughout our history, we serve and have served, not for political reasons, but because we love our country. On the political issues — those matters of war and peace, and in some cases of life and death — we trusted the judgment of our national leaders. We hoped that they would be right, that they would measure with accuracy the value of our lives against the enormity of the national interest that might call upon us to go into harm‘s way."
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 05:48:08 PM
POL: "I don't buy the "Bush is a Christian" thing."

Talk about irony!

Bush and Cheney both claim to be Methodists.  The Methodist church motto is "Open Hearts, Open Minds".  Unlike Bush and Cheney however, some Methodists including me, actually believe it.

BTW - a lot of Methodists right now a really strongly objecting to the proposed Pres Library at SMU.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 05:53:50 PM
Geez, from Think Progress, Senator Chuck Hagel reveals that Bush originally wanted the 2002 Iraq Resolution to cover the entire Middle East. Bush wanted Congress to allow him to attack anywhere in the entire Middle East.

<a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/24/hagel-iraq-resolution/" rel="nofollow">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/24/hagel-iraq-resolution/</a>

In 2007, it doesn't matter anymore what Congress says or does when Bush has made it clear he'll ignore them and the will of the people.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Donovan Fraser
EMAIL: DonovanFraser@comcast.net
IP: 67.171.164.131
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 06:58:23 PM
Bush a Christian???? oh for fuck's sake!!!Bush IS the biggest terrorist on the planet! He's PERSONALLY responsible for more deaths multiplied by thousands than Osama ever has been or wished to be.He's also the dumbest terrorist ever spawned and we're the dumbest country for putting up with it. When is  enough enough??? After the war with Iran and Syria???
or After we destroyed all of the middle
east??
    Someone ( in power) needs to step up to the plate and oust this clusterfuck of a leader. or...we just bitch endlessly into the abyss.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Other Tom
EMAIL: TMM89@san.rr.com
IP: 24.161.190.159
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 07:23:15 PM
SECOND WITNESS TESTIFIES TO WILSON FALSEHOODS

"Former CIA Iraq Mission Manager Robert L. Grenier appeared as a government witness in the trial of Libby on charges of obstruction and lying. He testified he told Libby that the idea of sending ex-ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger was the brainchild of Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, who worked in the CIA office that sent him in 2002.

"Wilson had willfully left the false impression that his boondoggle had been undertaken 'at the behest' of the Vice President.  His wife, a former low-level fucntionary with a desk job at CIA headquarters, has since voluntarily retired from the agency to devote more time to publicity-seeking."

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 149.135.56.74
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 09:22:43 PM
When discussing intolerance and extremism, you would be wise NOT to quote St Paul, Ybnormal.

That saint, who is far more important than God, is the root cause of Christian bigotary. When you replace lessons with dogma, you set up a social colision course.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 09:49:16 PM
WaPo's Glenn Kessler on all the lies in Bush's SOTU and his mischaracterization of the enemy we face: "In his State of the Union address last night, President Bush presented an arguably misleading and often flawed description of "the enemy" that the United States faces overseas, lumping together disparate groups with opposing ideologies to suggest that they have a single-minded focus in attacking the United States."

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012400006.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012400006.html</a>

You know, this is why I refuse to watch Bush's speeches anymore. It's just impossible to keep track of all the lies in a single sentence, much less an entire SOTU.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 10:05:31 PM
Other Tom writes: " 'Wilson had willfully left the false impression that his boondoggle had been undertaken "at the behest" of the Vice President. His wife, a former low-level fucntionary with a desk job at CIA headquarters, has since voluntarily retired...' "

Since your posted material is in quotes, shit-n-run, presumably you are providing material written by someone other than yourself.

If that's the case, you should provide us with the name of the author (and that applies to your "AP" snippet above as well), as well as a link to the source material (so we can gain a little context for it).

Failure to do so, lackballs, is rather cowardly, don't you think?


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:29:03 PM
Chris,
Don't you love what Other Tom wrote...uh, quoted, describing an unpaid trip to Niger as a "boondoggle"? In case Other Tom isn't aware, Niger is one of the poorest countries in the world. It's also one of the hottest countries in the world, and about 4/5 of it is hot, dry, dusty desert. Some boondoggle.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:53:58 PM
Chris,
Isn't it also curious that Other Tom is so obsessed with putting down the Wilsons and defending the Great Bushie, that he's willing to trash the CIA. You'd think that someone who claims to be a patriotic Ah-meri-kan would be just a little bit concerned that entire CIA operation[s]—Brewster Jennings—were exposed and undermined. That many lives and careers, not just the Wilsons, may have been damaged as well, including job loss, arrest, torture, death.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Blue Girl, Red State (aka Global Citizen)
EMAIL: proctoring.congress@gmail.com
IP: 172.134.66.68
URL: http://www.proctoringcongress.blogspot.com
DATE: 01/25/2007 12:50:14 PM
The first time I heard the phrase "War on Terror" I looked at my husband and said "Did he just declare war on a transitive verb?"
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Jack Moore
EMAIL: alfonsobedoya@hotmail.com
IP: 72.193.71.84
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 02:01:24 PM
Larry:

Insightful, and put succintly so that a 12 year-old can grap it, yet not pedantic.

Thanks.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jimbobuddy
EMAIL: jjaycott@msn.com
IP: 65.103.20.192
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 02:46:56 PM
Pol, I agree with you about Bush's 'faith'. Just as Nixon used the cudgel of communism to smear his opponents, cow the electorate, and thereby gain power, so to has Bush used Christo-triumphialism(my term) to do the same. Once they(Rove) discovered how well it works, they saw no reason to NOT keep repeating the same formula overand over.
   In the same way, and in a departure from what you seem to think about him Larry, I view Ahmadinejad in much the same way. His motivation is acquisition of power. He cowtows to the Ayatollahs, trumpets Persian nationalism, and stokes an ugly racism towards jews. How ferverently he believes in all this matters to the same degree that Bush, and Nixon believe(d) in their means to power.
  Some of the  differences between Ahmadinejad and Bush are obvious: Bush is ignorant of the middle east,the President of Iran ISNT. Iran's asperations are regional ; Bush's are global. Ahmadinejad's 'letters to America' indicate to me a very shrewd, diplomatically adept leader. Bush is a flaming trainwreck! 
   The more we attack Iran , the stonger Ahmadinejad's power becomes - that nationalism thing, again. The solution to the 'problem' of Iran is ENGAGEMENT. A very large (young) part of the population has a fascination , and  - yes - LOVE for America. IF, we had a coherent ,and intelligent policy towards the entire area, then the natural aspirations of the humans living there , combined with the increasing goodwill that a policy of engagement would bring, would likely move Iran back towards a more friendly posture.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 05:43:17 PM
Recommend everyone read Scott Ritter's article about what Congress can do now to prevent war with Iran, up at Common Dreams:

<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0125-27.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0125-27.htm</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thinker
EMAIL: gorwitzm@hotmail.com
IP: 58.163.157.69
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 09:42:24 PM
Are you 12, jack?

I didn't realise the younger ones visited here. Quite appropriate. I guess I should tone down my language occassionally.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 10:44:00 PM
Blue Girl, Red State writes: "The first time I heard the phrase 'War on Terror' I looked at my husband and said 'Did he just declare war on a transitive verb?'"

No, an abstract noun.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 10:48:42 PM
Transitive verbs are probably in cahoots with abstract nouns, though, so they're on the watch list too, I bet.

We may as well face it, this is all about Dubya alone and afraid with a language he never made.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 10:57:38 PM
Oh, you may well laugh, but intelligence has recorded several instances of transitive verbs in the same paragraph-- nay, the same sentence-- with abstract nouns.

Okay [laughing], I'm done. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 11:03:31 PM
Transitive verbs or abstract nouns...GWOT doesn't exist. There's no such thing as the war on terror. It's just a catchy phrase some imbecile made up to sell a war[s] product.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 11:10:13 PM
Thinker writes: "I didn't realise the younger ones visited here. Quite appropriate. I guess I should tone down my language occassionally."

Jack Moore's comment is a compliment, Thinker, and not a reflection of his age.

Please, don't ever confuse simplicity of speech with simplemindedness.

It's been said (with admiration) that Einstein could explain his theory of relativity to a fairly intelligent twelve-year-old, and we draw from this the truism that the mark of one who truly understands the subject is the ability to do just that.

Think of this when next you are being snowed with increasingly unintelligible gobbledygook by an "expert."


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 01:26:39 PM
Larry writes: "George W. Bush still does not get it.  He insists that the terrorists hate us because of our freedom."

Note that Dubya always refers to them not as "terrorists" but "The Terrorists," like they're all players on an opposing football team.

-----


--------
AUTHOR: Larry Johnson
TITLE: Joe Wilson Vindicated
STATUS: Publish
ALLOW COMMENTS: 1
CONVERT BREAKS: 0
ALLOW PINGS: 1

DATE: 01/24/2007 08:29:28 PM
-----
BODY:
<p>by<br />Larry C Johnson</p>

<p>The Bush/Cheney acolytes keen on smearing Joe Wilson took a couple of gut shots at the Scooter Libby trial today.&nbsp; One of the documents released to the public confirms Wilson's account of how he came to be sent to Niger, what he found, and what he reported to CIA debriefers.</p>

<p>Part of the smear effort, which was led by Kansas Senator Pat Roberts from his perch as head of the Senate Intelligence Committee (SSCI), insisted that Joe's trip to Niger actually revealed that Iraq was trying to buy uranium.&nbsp; According to p. 46 of the July 2004 SSCI report on Iraq, the Republican's reported hearsay about what Joe found:&nbsp; </p>

<p><a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/senate_iraq_report_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href, '_blank', 'width=800,height=366,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,toolbar=no,directories=no,location=no,menubar=no,status=no,left=0,top=0'); return false"></a><a onclick="window.open(this.href, '_blank', 'width=800,height=366,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,toolbar=no,directories=no,location=no,menubar=no,status=no,left=0,top=0'); return false" href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/senate_iraq_report_2.jpg"><img width="450" height="205" border="0" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/senate_iraq_report_2.jpg" title="Senate_iraq_report_2" alt="Senate_iraq_report_2" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; float: left;" /></a>
<br /> </p><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><p>Not so fast boys and girls.&nbsp; During yesterday's testimony key documents were introduced into evidence.&nbsp; One of these was the INR memo about the Niger affair.<br /> </p>

<p><a href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/files/inr_memo.pdf">Download inr_memo.pdf</a></p>

<p>Buried in the appendix of the this document is the redacted intelligence report, known in CIA parlance as a &quot;TD&quot;.&nbsp; Take a look for yourself at what the CIA debriefers reported:</p>
-----
EXTENDED BODY:
<p>The following TD shows that Joe met with two key former Nigerien officials--former Prime Minister Ibrahim Mayaki and former Minister of Energy and Mines Boucar Mai Manga.&nbsp; The INR memo records that Joe Wilson supported the INR position that the Embassy was quite capable of reporting on this matter without his intervention.&nbsp; Joe was not advocating to go to Niger and his wife, Valerie, was not in the meeting when this issue came up.&nbsp; (She had only introduced him at the start of the meeting.)&nbsp; The CIA ultimately prevailed and sent Joe to Niger.&nbsp; In coordination with the U.S. Ambassador to Niger, Joe agreed to meet with only former officials who were witting of the uranium program.</p>

<p>So what did Joe learn?&nbsp; Here's the reader's digest version (you can read the full report for yourself below).</p>

<ul><li>Former Prime Minister Mayaki told Joe he had rebuffed an effort in June of 1999 to arrange a meeting with the Iraqis he supported the U.S. sanction.&nbsp; He said, &quot;if there had been any rogue state during his tenure, he would have seen the contract.&quot;</li>

<li>Former Minister of Enerty Manga said, &quot;there were no sales outside of International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) since the mid-1980s&quot;.&nbsp; He went on to tell Ambassador Wilson that the uranium was tightly controlled and accounted for from the time it is mined until the time it is loaded onto ships.</li></ul>

<p>There is nothing in this report to support the notion that Iraq had succeeded evading UN sanctions and purchased large quantities of yellowcake uranium.&nbsp; NOTHING!&nbsp; You can also see for yourself how the Republicans on the SSCI tried to mislead the American people in the July 2004 report.&nbsp; After you read the following report could you brief the President of the United States that Iraq had acquired yellowcake uranium and had restarted its nuclear program?&nbsp; No way in hell!</p>

<p>That's why Cheney and Libby were so intent on trying to shut up Joe Wilson.&nbsp; He told the truth.</p>

<p><a onclick="window.open(this.href, '_blank', 'width=800,height=704,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,toolbar=no,directories=no,location=no,menubar=no,status=no,left=0,top=0'); return false" href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/cia_niger_td_p_1.jpg"><img width="500" height="440" border="0" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/cia_niger_td_p_1.jpg" title="Cia_niger_td_p_1" alt="Cia_niger_td_p_1" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; float: left;" /></a></p><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><p><a onclick="window.open(this.href, '_blank', 'width=800,height=1092,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,toolbar=no,directories=no,location=no,menubar=no,status=no,left=0,top=0'); return false" href="http://noquarter.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/cia_niger_td_p_2.jpg"><img width="500" height="682" border="0" src="http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/cia_niger_td_p_2.jpg" title="Cia_niger_td_p_2" alt="Cia_niger_td_p_2" style="margin: 0px 5px 5px 0px; float: left;" /></a>
</p>
-----
EXCERPT:

-----
KEYWORDS:

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 09:26:56 PM
Even if Saddam had tried to purchase uranium from Niger, all 500 tons in "2 tranches per year," how would all that uranium be moved across Niger's desert to Sudan? Trucks would have had to deal with 130º F heat, no gas stations for miles, wear and tear on tires, shifting desert sands, etc. And none of our spy satellites would notice? Besides, as Wilson noted in his report, the French controlled both of Niger's uranium mines.

It's clear Robertson was covering up for Bush, as were others in the GOP. It's shameful.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: scooter threw away his 'get out of jail' card
EMAIL: scooterBubba@phuqued.com
IP: 63.17.0.59
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 10:06:24 PM
kinda nice to finally see someone nail the lying son of a beech to a cross for TREASON finally.  Time to try Cheney and Bush and the rest of the lying murdering war-mongering bass-turds to the proverbial cross now, and 
get another gallows ready at Leavenworth, KS for them.  Might wanna use more rope for all of them as well, they deserve no less than a first class flight to HELL for the 655,000+ dead Iraqi's, and the god only knows how many dead (many more than the published 3100 official dead, I do believe!!) American servicemen and women who were squandered for the LSA / Hydrocarbon Law acquisition that gives this scummy nation the bloody oil it was after all along, 75 percent of the Iraqi production till that tap runs dry.  TREASON, MASS MURDER, and GENOCIDE, all come to mind, for their crimes against all humanity, and before their maker.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: QuentinCompson
EMAIL: imknot@hotmail.com
IP: 68.206.138.142
URL: http://anysoldier.com/WhereToSend/
DATE: 01/24/2007 10:07:29 PM
Senators Roberts, Hatch, and Bond could not be less respectful of the sacrifice so many have made defending the freedom these politicians abuse.
-
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: 1watt
EMAIL: osterloh@yahoo.com
IP: 66.112.45.24
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:10:18 PM
the war criminal has pulled the plug.

<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070124/ts_nm/iraq_dc" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070124/ts_nm/iraq_dc</a>

in violation of:

<a href="http://www.dannen.com/decision/int-law.html#D" rel="nofollow">http://www.dannen.com/decision/int-law.html#D</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:17:41 PM
The most unusual item I can see in the letter is an admission of once improper sales.

Unless IAEA procedure was different in the mid 80s. Did Ronnie Raygun deregulate the IAEA in those days?

Why would they acknowledge improper sales?

Why would it be disclosed?

Ambassador Wilson was close to the infrastructure that monitored this in the 80s and early 90s, as was Valerie, one officially, the other covertly.

We were stringing Iraq along, to prevent them from siding with Soviet/Russian influence and to keep an eye out for our partner Israel.

Other items(slant drilling Saddam's oil) made aggressive policy happen.

Once the war was over, sanctions were used to restrict market access. To protect other vested support, and as a means of trying to collapse the government or bring about regime change.

Saddam was too strong for that, we saw that he was better to have in terms of our regional interests towards keeping client states in line...

Then Cheney returned to deregulate the industry of oil, energy, and arms sectors to ramp up a new level of graft.

The original findings indicate we could have again leveraged Iraq vs. Iran. This was the most threatening state vs. the Israel sympathizer wing of our foreign policy. We were supposed to bait and switch into action vs. Iran, thinking Saddam would once again cave to demands vs. Persia as well.Cheney got impatient and went after low hanging fruit.

The Saud state wanted to elevate a new model in Iraq over oil policy, but one that was along the lines of Sunni support. Oil for food kickbacks were not enough for them.


Niger admits to sales in the mid 80s. A known known of Reagan, Rumsfeld shaking hands...


Wilson's report forwards this known known, he doesn't note it being different, so it was a known policy of past administrations.

One would think this would raise concerns. Instead it appears normal and nominally known. We are certain the mines were flooded that would increase production beyond the maxed out level Niger met demand for over the table, on the world market.

The Iranian and Iraqi sources, these contacts. Were they national Iraqis and Iranians or expatriate arms of Ghorbanifar?

That would be a different story to talk of. 

Enough of what is shown  that the supposed purchase never took place, nor was going to in terms of market situations.

Even where it to happen there was no way to ship,store, process this without the entire operation being found out. It would light up inspection monitors' equipment like a christmas tree.

James K.Polk revisited. Create a reason for war.

The difference was that this was not in our hemisphere, so the old notion of Monroe Doctrine could not even apply.

The Republican belief in free market would be contrapositive to their decision to take a market over by invading its country as well. Strangely enough they have tightened the market since then, to the profit of the same interests.

The Pakistani proliferation concern is evidenced with this, and Bush ignored this all along in his march for war with nonproliferators.

This document is another indictment of Bush's failed foreign policy.

As for the Sensitive Contact designation, explain this further please.

Does it simply mean he did not work for the Lincoln Group or Hill & Knowlton?

How could such contacts be used to sell a war on false grounds?


Again, to what extent did the US knowingly end run the IAEA in the 80s?
Will the UN review this over sanctions concerns?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: JerseyJeffersonian
EMAIL: farowland@comcast.net
IP: 204.52.215.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:18:02 PM
Although it is gratifying to see Senator Hagel, a Republican senator from Nebraska, beginning to speak out more forcefully against the escalation, something for which he has gotten some praise from across the aisle, let it not be forgotten that he was a member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in the 109th Congress.  Before everybody falls all over themselves in praise for his purported boldness and independence, it would be legitimate to ask where all of that integrity and fairness were when the Chairman, Pat Roberts of Kansas, was doing his best to spin, obfuscate and delay the meaningful oversight of activities under the committee's purview.  Methinks that Senator Hagel's professed indifference to jeopardization of his own political future might be just another version of McCain's calculatedly misleading "Straight Talk Express"?  Sitting mum while Roberts did his thing is not value-neutral.  Trying to position himself for a run in 2008 by downplaying this inconvenient truth should not pass unremarked. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Other Tom
EMAIL: TMM89@san.rr.com
IP: 24.161.190.159
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:40:30 PM
WILSON "ANGRY" AT NOT BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY

"[Wilson] told me that he was angry at the way he had been described [on 'Meet the Press']. He was very mad at the way he'd been described and that people were not taking him seriously…What he told me was that he had been described as some low-level person, and he was very upset by that." 

"Did he say he was considering going public to correct a misimpression created by Condoleezza Rice?" asked Libby attorney Ted Wells.

"Yes," said Grossman.

Several jurors gasped audibly at the further humiliation of this corpulent fool.



-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Mr.Murder
EMAIL: murdermeditations@yahoo.com
IP: 70.128.43.210
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:40:43 PM
The defendant counsel today introduced FBI evidence to the trial.


They've practically gift wrapped the case to Fitz on a silver platter now, giving him opportunity to do the same.

He's used FBI info to nail mob bosses, this fits the entire conspiracy/RICO shell of Cheney.

"Schmall also testified that after the leak had occurred, while he was briefing both Cheney and Libby, they asked him what he thought about the leak scandal. Noting that some commentators had dismissed the leak as "no big deal," Schmall explained that he considered it a "grave danger." He explained to Libby and Cheney that foreign intelligence services could now investigate everyone who had come into contact with Valerie Wilson when she had served overseas. "Those people," he said, "innocent or otherwise, could be harassed...tortured or killed." With such testimony in hand, Fitzgerald will be able to argue that Libby had motive to lie about his connection to the leak: he would not want to be implicated in a chain of events that could lead to the torture and death of innocent people."
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20070124/cm_thenation/3160211" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20070124/cm_thenation/3160211</a>


David Corn continues:

"This will be useful ammo if Libby's lawyers later claim he was too damn busy with protecting America to have recalled accurately what he knew about Valerie Wilson. Yet he wasn't too preoccupied to talk to Cruise about Scientology."

Day two and Cheney's name is already neck deep in shit. Libby was so busy defending America he can recall detailed scientology talks with superstars.

"They landed a few blows. But Fitzgerald has more witnesses coming. After Schmall, the next scheduled witness is Cathie Martin, who was a spokesperson for Cheney. She was, in a way, a witness to the Grenier-Libby conversation and also spoke with Libby and Cheney several times about the Wilson affair. She was involved in the damage-control operation mounted in response to Joseph Wilson's revelations. Might she have a better memory than the initial witnesses?" 

   These people are legion and will be brought forward. One thing you don't do is endanger spooks.

   Hagel's already speaking out in hopes of leading the way for a VP appointment. Republicans are not running for '08, they are running for appointment, in lieu of impeachment.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: JerseyJeffersonian
EMAIL: farowland@comcast.net
IP: 204.52.215.11
URL: 
DATE: 01/24/2007 11:58:29 PM
Mr. Murder,

I had failed to consider that Senator Hagel might be trying to replicate the Gerald Ford route to the Vice Presidency (or higher?).  Sage observation.  If that doesn't pan out, we could always hope for Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania's greatest gift to the Republic since Buchanan.  Or not.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 12:08:36 AM
Booman has a great post up distilling the trial, here: <a href="http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/1/24/204912/452" rel="nofollow">http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/1/24/204912/452</a>

Yeah Hagel is up for re-election in 2008, and the GOP isn't playing too well to most Americans. Bush may have something to do with that. I don't know what to think about Biden's non-binding resolution anymore. First I was for it, because it sounded like a good way of getting Republicans on board. But I'd really like to see more fighting Dems, and less playing it safe. 

P.S. Other Tom, you need new material. Also if you're going to quote articles, then provide the link. Unless, of course, you're just making shit up and just adding the quotation marks to make your nonsense appear more intelligent. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 01:22:05 AM
Speculations:
Maybe there's a reason Nancy Pelosi said impeachment is not on the table.  Maybe it doesn't have to be put there by her.  Maybe she's anticipating Fitzgerald can serve it up well done with all the trimmings.

It strikes me that there's something in the common interest of both Wells/Libby and Fitzgerald - to fry a bigger fish than Libby.  For Libby to get off light (even though he might still not), he'll need to give up someone else, such as someone Fitzgerald wants even more than Libby.

You can't claim the devil made you do it, at the same time you claim you can't remember who the devil is.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Bill
EMAIL: iamwil@insightbb.com
IP: 74.135.146.93
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 07:34:29 AM
Are all Kansans cowards like their Senator Pat Roberts?
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Colorado Bob
EMAIL: coloradobob1@mac.com
IP: 72.26.146.105
URL: http://www.colorado-bob.blogspot.com/
DATE: 01/25/2007 08:26:03 AM
Guys like Other Tom, Are really hanging on some thin reeds these days.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Colorado Bob
EMAIL: coloradobob1@mac.com
IP: 72.26.146.105
URL: http://www.colorado-bob.blogspot.com/
DATE: 01/25/2007 08:27:32 AM
We haven't seen Mr. Roberts lately. Another profile in courage.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 08:55:21 AM
Ybnormal: bigger fish to fry?

Yeah, Fitzgerald is aiming at Cheney.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Colorado Bob
EMAIL: coloradobob1@mac.com
IP: 72.26.146.105
URL: http://www.colorado-bob.blogspot.com/
DATE: 01/25/2007 09:51:09 AM
Will Our Petro-Dependency Destroy Our Democracy?
<a href="http://www.alternet.org/story/46919/" rel="nofollow">http://www.alternet.org/story/46919/</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Other Tom
EMAIL: TMM89@san.rr.com
IP: 24.161.190.159
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 09:55:06 AM
FOR JOE AND VALERIE, THE QUESTION IS 'WHY?'

"In his book, published in April 2004, Wilson wrote, 'Apart from being the conduit of a message from a colleague in her office asking if I would be willing to have a conversation about Niger’s uranium industry, Valerie had had nothing to do with the matter. She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip. The suggestion that Valerie might have improperly influenced the decision to send me to Niger was easy to disprove.' But contrary to Wilson’s confident-sounding denial, in July 2004 a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report found that, as The Washington Post reported, 'Wilson. . .was specifically recommended for the mission by his wife, a CIA employee, contrary to what he has stated publicly. . .[A] CIA official told the Senate committee that Plame "offered up" Wilson’s name for the Niger trip, then on Feb. 12, 2002, sent a memo to a deputy chief in the CIA's Directorate of Operations saying her husband "has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’"' So it turns out that Wilson lied to conceal his wife’s role in procuring his CIA assignment. This raises the question: why?"

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
Tom, enough of your mindless bullshit.  Valerie did not offer her husband up.  Valerie's boss asked her if Joe could do it and directed her to write a memo on the matter.  AM I WRITING TOO FAST HERE FOR YOU?  
You see, Joe had been sent on prior missions to Africa by the CIA.  The CIA routinely uses former Ambassadors, particularly someone like Joe who had worked at the NSC as well.  Please pull your head out of your ass.

The answers will be forthcoming... 

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: J
EMAIL: fam24578@yahoo.com
IP: 69.8.9.72
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 10:54:35 AM
Larry,

kansas sen. pat roberts needs to be put in a criminal docket for criminal malfeasance of his office, conspiracy to commit murder against u.s. military personnel, conspiracy to commit fraud against the u.s. treasury, conspiracy to commit slander & defamation of character against citizens of the u.s. (joe and valerie), while acting as head of the ssci, and upon conviction of sen. robert's treason (yes i said 'treason') against our nation with his collusion with bush to involve our nation in an 'unnecessary' iraq war that had/has nothing to do with u.s. national security.

throw the bum pat roberts in the slammer, post haste!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: GSD
EMAIL: gsiggob@verizon.net
IP: 70.109.164.220
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 12:39:14 PM
Pat Roberts is clearly a criminal and a lackey.

Maybe he can be removed so that Democratic Governor Sebelius can replace his ass with an American who is not a coward and a traitor.


-GSD
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: RebelliousRenee
EMAIL: weaver1@adelphia.net
IP: 75.68.102.9
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 12:48:26 PM
I've been lurking this site for some time now courtesy of Colorado Bob...
just want to say "thank you" for a very intelligent and informing site....I LOVE this place.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Sheerahkahn
EMAIL: sheerahkahn@hotmail.com
IP: 192.245.246.6
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 12:54:13 PM
Hmmm, I love the smell of Justice in the morning...it smells like...victory.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Aaron Bernstein
EMAIL: aaron_bernstein@yahoo.com
IP: 71.135.160.31
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 01:47:22 PM
VP Cheney's interview with Wolf Blitzer gave me the creeps.

Here are a few questions which Americans should ask the Bush administration:

--"Is there any light at all between the ME policy of the US and the ME policy of a small radical group of Likud supporters in Israel?"

--"Is it possible to have a reasoned debate about the US support for Israel without bringing up charges  of anti-Semitism?" (So far I would have to say the answer is no.)

-- "What does the US get out of attacking Iran and protecting Israel?"

--"Why are Christian fundamentalists so willing to put Biblical interpretations of the Old Testament ahead of US interests?"

--What is the difference between Christian fundamentalists, Jewish fundamentalists and Islamic fundamentalists, and why do the rest of us, who just want to get on with our lives, have to get caught in the middle of their brawl?"


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jimbobuddy
EMAIL: jjaycott@msn.com
IP: 65.103.20.192
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 01:57:28 PM
The presidential race that will bring true leadership back  redeem our nation in 2008;
 Webb/Feingold vs Hagel/Lieberman.......How can we lose?...ok,ok, just kidding about Lieberman. But the others TOTALLY rock! Hilary triangulates way too much , and Obama is way too inexperienced.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: John Rowland
EMAIL: johnrowland@webtv.net
IP: 69.172.187.240
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 02:45:09 PM
Keep in mind " Yellowcake " is simply a non toxic soil used to enrich uranium .Saddam needed huge nuke plants for that enriching process he did not possess .
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Leslie
EMAIL: muonsalternateworlds@hotmail.com
IP: 64.105.72.228
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 02:47:37 PM
Other Tom,
Oh-oh, I have the answer: Human enslaving aliens were behind the Plame leak.

<a href="http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002410.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002410.php</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: John Rowland
EMAIL: johnrowland@webtv.net
IP: 69.172.187.240
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 02:52:18 PM
Larry did much intel. work New York P.D. as a detective .I commend you Larry you know the intel. game big time .
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: BadTux
EMAIL: badtuxnospam@badtux.org
IP: 24.6.254.15
URL: http://badtux.net
DATE: 01/25/2007 09:27:47 PM
Oh puh-LEEZE. All these "fact" things.  Who cares about facts?  Only truthiness matters -- truthiness being whatever it is that we want to believe. Facts are, like, SOOO 20th century! 

-Badtux the Snarky Penguin

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: oldtree
EMAIL: zaphod@peak.org
IP: 69.59.206.121
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 09:41:49 PM
This doesn't wash in the long run.   dick and scooter knew who provided information on WMD not only from Iraq, but also Iran.  This BS about them just finding out that V. Wilson was responsible for the information coming from weapons in the two countries,  seems to be something that they know all about as a result of their interest in Iran since day one of the administration.  Tenet would have provided this info as part of their plans.  I can see why they would want to hide this fact, and how important it is to keep them out of treason charges.
   There is enough to suspect their moves were to destroy factual information from the CIA's grasp for their future plans.   There is no way people with photographic memories as scooter is supposed to have, forget their whole reason for being in the positions they are, and their job description. Forget all these conversations about what he has been charged to do by VP.  If this administrations goal was to take Iran and Iraq's oil fields, they must personally control all the info.  How many information sources did they destroy when they outed Wilson's entire company, and all of their contacts.  How could you ask for more if you wanted to obscure what Iran was doing to be able to make the intelligence what you want to present?   It appears it was intentional.  They may have thought that the Iraq crap would never come up, and just got overly confident.

The information given by the various reporters had so many names for Mrs. Wilson,  that they must have been using various ones at the OVP to confuse the issue more.
I hope I am being overly suspicious, but this is something that has bothered me about aspects of what we used to know,  think we know, and what we know from testimony so far.  The people that have testified have confirmed OVP hounding CIA hard about what to say and demanding total control of what is released, and when

Perhaps someone from that tight little inner circle that Colin Powell and George Tenet belong to has spilled the beans?

It does appear Ari will serve rover and the bush tomorrow. Immunity implies a lot of information is about to hit the proverbial fan.   It will be a free for all over the weekend, with strange things happening next week
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Canuck Stuck in Muck
EMAIL: anthro132001@yahoo.com
IP: 63.249.123.105
URL: http://canuckstuckinmuck.blogspot.com
DATE: 01/25/2007 09:53:46 PM
Dear Larry,
You're vindication, well deserved, is near. It's unfortunate that, although you've been nailing the truth all along, it will take a court of law, and a whip-smart prosecutor to close the case. We never doubted you. You've fought the good fight, and, unless the jury is brain dead, you've won!
Happy Fitzmas!
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Crackers
EMAIL: danenw@yahoo.com
IP: 67.182.141.209
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 09:54:07 PM
Is it the hope of this site to just keep stating the facts, and hope that the truth will set us free?

I really, REALLY want to bitch-slap Cheney (you know what I mean...) and have his fat ass hauled in front of a jury of his peers.

I'm hoping that our representatives feel the same.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/25/2007 10:36:54 PM
Thank you, Larry. 

Other Tom's weirdly obsessive comments on the Wilsons have for some time had the creepy smell of a pet bunny boiling in the kitchen.


-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/26/2007 10:27:39 AM
Maybe jealousy is the prime motivation.  Its not uncommon for logic, or lack of, to be driven by emotion.

Are the right wing pundits who criticise J Wilson's mission and V Plame-Wilson's covert status and integrity, really just motivated by being jealous of people who have a more important job than they do?  Or maybe the truth the Wilson's represent is a threat to right wing world view.  Maybe all of the above.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: ybnormal
EMAIL: ybnormalcm@comcast.net
IP: 76.171.118.184
URL: 
DATE: 01/26/2007 11:44:44 AM
Crackers: interesting thought.

I've heard that the floor in the entry-way of CIA headquarters has the words "The truth will set you free".

But for the truth to be true, it needs to be more of a process than the un-heard sound of a tree falling in the forest.

Maybe bitch-slapping a fat-ass and hauling it in front of a jury is part of the process of truth.

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: TDC
EMAIL: 
IP: 68.254.64.3
URL: http://profile.typekey.com/mhanson76/
DATE: 01/26/2007 04:04:19 PM
And Larry, you evasions aside I don’t believe the administration said that Iraq was successful in its attempt, only that it made an attempt, something that according to the Senate Report, Joe Wilson confirmed. 

"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." 

Now I realize you are not that bright a guy and all, but even a dolt like you should be able to realize that there is a significant difference here. 

"got pwned?"  

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
Typical troll.  This is classic Seixon nonsense.  Deal with these facts.  First, the Bush Administration was told repeatedly to ignore the claim that Iraq had obtained/was trying to buy/ etc uranium yellowcake.  In fact, the reason the President cited the British in the State of the Union is because the White House browbeat the CIA to say something.  The fact of the matter is that the British info came from the same source as the US info.  It was all bullshit.

Here's what is significant you ignorant asshole, Iraq did not even have the ability to process uranium even if it had acquired the yellowcake (which it did not).  All of this exposed the Bush Administration's lies that sent US troops into an unnecessary war.  But I understand, you are too fucking blind because your head is up your ass and your eyes are full of shit.  

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: TDC
EMAIL: TomDickCoolio@dodgeit.com
IP: 68.254.64.3
URL: 
DATE: 01/26/2007 05:50:20 PM
Larry, you really get unhinged when someone confronts you. 

Crazy Larry said:"The fact of the matter is that the British info came from the same source as the US info. It was all bullshit."

That’s not what the British inquiry said …. Lawrence.  But let’s recap, shall we, since you are so obviously unable to deal with the facts. The Butler Report indicated that there was enough intelligence to make a “well-founded” judgment that Saddam Hussein was seeking, perhaps as late as 2002, to obtain uranium illegally from Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo (6.4 para. 499). In particular, referring to a 1999 visit of Iraqi officials to Niger, the report states (6.4 para. 503): “The British government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger's exports, the intelligence was credible.”

Getting pwned from both sides of the Atlantic must really hurt your fragile ego. 

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
Nice try bozo, but just because I acknowledge that you are a complete twit does not signal that I am "unhinged".  Impatient with stupidity, certainly.  Unwilling to tolerate ignorant assholes like you, GUILTY!

You may be qualified to do faith-based intelligence for the likes of the Office of Special Plans, but you know nothing about the real world.  Fact of the matter is that the Brits were relying on the same source as the United States, except the US intel analysts recognized the Niger forgeries and bullshit.

But here's the ultimate test for these so-called intelligence reports applauded by the Butler Commission--WHAT DID WE FIND ON THE GROUND IN IRAQ?  Answer, nothing to substantiate the reports.  In fact, we discovered that the members of the US intelligence community, INR in particular, were absolutely right in asserting that Iraq was not reconstituting a nuclear program and that they were not trying to acquire yellowcake from Niger.  

Your ridiculous horseshit might make be reasonable if US troops had found yellowcake in Iraq, or documents about thwarted purchases, etc.  But they didn't.   Like I said, PULL HEAD OUT OF ASS AND WIPE SHIT FROM EYES.  OPEN EYES AND COME TO THE LIGHT.
Fucking moron!

-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg 
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/26/2007 08:12:22 PM
TDC writes: "Larry, you really get unhinged when someone confronts you."

I don't think he's unhinged so much as fed up with having lies that were debunked repeatedly years ago disingenuously posted in his comments section. Did you think this was the first time that this dopey equivocation has been raised and debunked here?

On a regular basis, like lemmings who can't get to the cliff fast enough, one of you lot try to bring these hoary humbugs to the grownups table, and you always act so innocently surprised when you're slapped around for doing so. My advice: broaden your reading horizons a bit, make that a lot, Sonny, and you won't look quite as stuipd as you do now.

God, the fucking nerve of these people.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Fred S
EMAIL: Willylo11723@cs.com
IP: 172.170.126.218
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 10:29:59 AM
They tried and tried to smear and censor Joe Wilson.  After all, censorship is becoming America's favorite past-time.  The US gov't (and their corporate friends), already detain protesters, ban books like "America Deceived" from Amazon and Wikipedia, and fire 21-year tenured, BYU physics professor Steven Jones because he proved explosives, thermite in particular, took down the WTC buildings. 
Final link (until Google Books bends to gov't will and drops the title):
<a href="http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0" rel="nofollow">http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0</a>
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: taters
EMAIL: mrgf53@sbcgobal.net
IP: 75.46.122.122
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 11:16:25 AM
Boy, these insane-o shrill deadending banshees shriek 
like giddy cheerleaders on prom night. Thank God the Bush ballwashers are in their last throes. 
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 12:56:12 PM
"The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Incidentally, for any other trolls with learning disabilities, the Bush administration agreed that this statement "did not rise to the level of inclusion in the SOTU address"-- i.e., was bullshit-- the day after Wilson's editorial debunking the statement.

Please tell your friends, you fucking morons, and put us out of your misery.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chris Vosburg
EMAIL: cvosburg@pacbell.net
IP: 69.234.50.181
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 01:17:26 PM
Fred s writes: "The US gov't (and their corporate friends), already detain protesters, ban books like "America Deceived" from Amazon and Wikipedia,..."

Perhaps the government objected to the inclusion of the phrase "Homeland Security Warning: Possession of this novel may result in unlimited detention" on the cover, when in fact, the Department of Homeland Security issued no such warning.

BTW, Fred, it's a novel. It's fiction. Capische?

[shaking head] Jeez, another bright boy. Joint's fulla bright boys today.
-----
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: kim
EMAIL: yecats@sunflower.com
IP: 24.124.107.113
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 02:08:00 PM
Have you read Cathy Martin's testimony about she and Libby trying to get news that the NIE had reported heavy interest by Iraq in YellowCake acquisition just 4 days before the SOTU into Tenet's retraction speech?

What price no interest in African Yellow Cake?

Silly fools.  I was banned at TheNextHurrah for pointing out that the elephant in the room, which they were ignoring, was from one of their own sources, possibly unearthed by eriposte, that the French had discovered in 1999 that there was a thriving black market in yellow cake in Africa.

See, in the early 90's, the commodity price of uranium had dropped because all the greenies disdained nuclear power, shuttering some borderline economic mines in Africa.  These still had ore, which could be profitably mined for sale to shall we say discreet buyers.  Do you get it?
=============

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
Kim, you are the obtuse one here.  For the sake of argument, let's accept your mindless insistence that Iraq bought yellowcake uranium.  Okay?  THEN WHERE THE FUCK IS IT?  You see, it is not in Iraq and Iraq, as we now know beyond any doubt, had no ability, ZERO, ZIPPO, NADA, way to process the uranium even if it had it which it did not.

Also, you are wrong about the NIE.  The October 2002 NIE did not accept as true the claim that Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake uranium in Niger or any other country in Africa.  
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: kim
EMAIL: yecats@sunflower.com
IP: 24.124.107.113
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 08:01:14 PM
Sought, not bought.  I don't understand your mindless insistence that Bush said they 'bought' yellowcake.  Read Duelfer and Rossett for Saddam's intentions.

Four days before the SOTU there was a new CIA document forwarded to the administration supporting the idea that Iraq SOUGHT yellowcake.  Read Cathy Martin's testimony.
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FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
Kim, congrats on providing a new meaning of stupidity.  You are ignoring the report the National Intelligence Officer for Africa submitted to the White House and DOD stipulating that IRAQ HAD NOT SOUGHT URANIUM AND THAT THE REPORTS MAKING SUCH CLAIMS WERE NOT RELIABLE.
But of course, ignorant soul that you are, you simply close your eyes and join Dick Cheney's fucking fantasy world.
And here's the kicker, US TROOPS HAVE NOT UNCOVERED ONE SINGLE DOCUMENT IN IRAQ SUBSTANTIATING YOUR FANTASY THAT IRAQ SOUGHT OR BOUGHT YELLOWCAKE.
I realize this is too simple for your addled brain but I thought I'd give it a try.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: kim
EMAIL: yecats@sunflower.com
IP: 24.124.107.113
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 09:58:13 PM
I guess it is Cathie Martin.  Read it and weep.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: kim
EMAIL: yecats@sunflower.com
IP: 24.124.107.113
URL: 
DATE: 01/27/2007 10:01:21 PM
Besides, I think he bought it and sent it to Libya, but I can't prove it.  We'll see what history has to say about why Khaddafi caved and what he had to say at the time.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: kim
EMAIL: yecats@sunflower.com
IP: 24.124.107.113
URL: 
DATE: 01/28/2007 12:39:17 AM
Oh, I know about the National Intelligence Officer for Africa.  Can you tell me his name?  Can you tell me why he sent his report, or if he was accurate?

Can you tell me what else he was doing while being the 'National Intelligence Office for Africa'?
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: kim
EMAIL: yecats@sunflower.com
IP: 24.124.107.113
URL: 
DATE: 01/28/2007 01:03:04 AM
Your Sunday lesson is to contemplate that it may be ignorance that saves your soul.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: The Oracle
EMAIL: wizard2000@austin.rr.com
IP: 72.183.122.135
URL: 
DATE: 01/28/2007 01:21:39 AM
Thank you Larry.

You definitely have a way of calling a troll a troll. Too bad many of them are still buying into the Cheney, RNC and Karl Rovian talking points.

For me, the entire push for war with Iraq by Bush/Cheney/etal. fails the "logic" (smell?) test.

Bush/Cheney/etal. had no trouble getting U.S. citizens behind going immediately after the al Qaeda in Afghnistan following the 9/11 attacks, while it required an extensive and aggressive PR effort to sell many Americans on launching a preemptive war against Iraq, a PR effort that took over 14 months to sell, a PR effort that required making false claims about Iraq and making Iraq out to be a greater threat to the U.S. than in reality.

The Joe Wilson/Valerie Plame affair, therefore, is just the tip of the iceberg as far as exposing the blatantly misleading White House PR effort before the war. And as each day passes in the Libby trial, more and more information will be revealed that will explain why it took 14 months for BushCo to sell the Iraq War, compared to the no PR-buildup required at all to go after al Qaeda in Afghanistan following 9/11.

I guess the right-wing trolls just don't like having their delusions called into question, while continuing to blindly defend a lying president/vice-president whose entire push for war in Iraq was based on lies and deceit. Silly trolls. Dangerous, silly trolls.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: kim
EMAIL: yecats@sunflower.com
IP: 24.124.107.113
URL: 
DATE: 01/28/2007 01:30:59 AM
Armitage, the unindicted and thoroughly protected first leaker of Plame's name conferred with his deputy, Marc Grossman, the night before Grossman's interrogation by the FBI.  Did Fitz know that?

Did Fitz give Fleischer immunity from prosecution blindly or in return for specific evidence.  If blindly, why?  Fitz already knew there was no crime in leaking her name, and he knew Armitage had been first leaker, so why blind immunity?  Can we spell malicious prosecution?

Why won't Fitz release the referral letter from the CIA to the DoJ?  Much more sensitive stuff has been released.  What about it shouldn't the public know?
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: kim
EMAIL: yecats@sunflower.com
IP: 24.124.107.113
URL: 
DATE: 01/28/2007 01:38:41 AM
And, for the furtherance of the issue of souls, relieve a little of the general public ignorance of the 'prior missions' that the CIA sent Joe Wilson on.  Inquiring, but damned, minds want to know.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Jay
EMAIL: jmarotta11@comcast.net
IP: 75.68.31.117
URL: 
DATE: 01/28/2007 09:06:27 AM
Kim, Other Tom, et al,

You and your ilk are in their last throes, to steal a phrase from the warmongers. No argument from the Administration defenders camp is credible at this point, the people are now seeing the forest through the trees. There is so much evidence that we were lied to war (go directly to the Hague Mr. POTUS and VPOTUS) that nickel and diming the Plame argument seems like shoveling shit against the tide.

It's over, you lost, move on.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: CV
EMAIL: crAnk@ctol.net
IP: 66.82.9.83
URL: http://citizenv-cv.blogspot.com/
DATE: 01/28/2007 03:31:32 PM
Question, Larry: Could outing Plame actually be about outing Plame? That is, (as far as we know) Ms Wilson was tracking illegal sales of Nuclear and other WMD materials, weapons proliferation and the networks that trade in them.
Rummy and Cheney have been involved with arms sales and trade, legal and illegal for Decades. They had a close call when one of their vendors, AQ Kahn got popped (under house arrest for a few years for spreading nuclear weapons technology to unstable regimes) so before going any further, the chummed the water a bit to see what would rise. Rig up some forged documents and run them by the CIA, Vice-pResidential Expidite STAT or whatever. The agency brought in the most relevant and forward team leaders to bat the memos around. Once it was determined that VPlame was the threat to Cheney's gang, they needed to find a way to take her out and roll up her operation world wide. Joe Wilson's Op-ed gave them a plausable political excuse for taking out a frontline unit in the real war on terrrrrrr, the fight to prevent the spread of Nukes.

(btw Wingnuts, Saturday 1.2 million people marched in Washington DC and only about 50 pathetic Kool-Aid addicts turned out to counter. The only place I saw any real police presence was to protect these fools who were standing there, cussing out the mass of marchers. Y'all need  professional help)
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Seixon
EMAIL: blog@seixon.com
IP: 80.203.34.198
URL: http://www.seixon.com
DATE: 01/28/2007 08:10:50 PM
"There is nothing in this report to support the notion that Iraq had succeeded evading UN sanctions and purchased large quantities of yellowcake uranium.  NOTHING!"

See right here shows that you are incapable of reading and thinking at the same time, Larry.

When people point out to you that it was never about "bought/acquired", you just bury them in ad hominem because you're as mature as a high school freshman.

You keep repeating the same tired lies that you and your VIPS crew have been sputtering for years.

The British intel was based on the French intel that showed Iraq was in fact interested in uranium. Of course, that never went anywhere because the Nigeriens didn't want any part of such a deal.

Since you and VIPS have used the forged documents as a red herring all this time, you try and conflate them and the other intelligence that the British had, not to mention the other intelligence the CIA was getting all the way up until Bush's speech.

The WINPAC director went over Bush's speech with the NSC and vetted the whole damn thing, even the infamous 16 words. Yes, that's right, the WINPAC director vetted those words together with the NSC.

As usual, you will omit any fact that reveals all your talking points to be hollow lies, and insult anyone who points that out in the most childish of ways.

Those of us with a brain can see your strawmen and fanciful statements for